CDC threw this nurse under the bus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YUP THEY THREW HER UNDER THE BUS...AND THEY EXPECT US TO TAKE CARE OF THE NEXT VICTIMS?

Hmmmm

I'm sure you'll feel better if she dies than your ass won't have to pay a dime. You don't mean "expect us to take care." You mean "me take care." Don't put everybody in your self-righteous, self-centered equation.

It is not self righteous! I am in health care and if this is how we treat folks who get sick while taking care of others then, I'm gone.

You should leave and leave NOW. The brave and noble people willing to step up and put themselves on the front line need support and the best infectious prevention training in the world.

Even with high risk prevention training, you don't sound like high risk medical care candidate because you are self-centered. Thst's not a slam. I sense with the best PPE gear, you still wouldn't have the cojones to step up to the plate. It takes more than just PPE gear to put yourself in such a dangerous situation.

I think that Dallas nurse is a hero, a real one. I guarantee her medical peers, the real ones, are going to take care of her whether she made a mistake in disrobing or not.

No one who walks away from such danger is weak or self centered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CDC contact isolatation precautions allow for a non-waterproof gown that doesn't fully cover and protect the healthcare worker. Nurses can be exposed even when wearing what is required because it is not a full hazmat suit. She wasn't properly protected!

ITA. CDC's "meticulous" "protocol" WRT protective suiting doesn't even cover the ears, sides of face, or hair. I've had vomit in my hair before and not discovered it until the next day (don't ask). She could have touched her hair and later touched her face. Lots of possible exposure routes when your whole body is not covered.

Thank you for explaining this because I've been wondering exactly what the protective gear they are using is. It sounds like standard hospital gear for more common infections, and is probably inadequate for someone like this. I'm surprised they are having health care workers treating something as lethal as Ebola with parts of their body exposed.

YW. The PPE gear used by MSF in West Africa covers the body entire. You can see that in photos as well as the excellent Frontline video posted upthread. However, CDC's PPE protocol appears to leave the hair, ears, and sides of face open: http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ppe-poster.pdf

I'm not sure which PPE method was used at Dallas Presbyterian. But if I were in healthcare, I'd be very concerned about the exposed facial areas as shown on CDC poster. Also notice in the young nurse's released photos that she has long hair. It was likely tied back, but some liquid virus could have splattered unnoticed on her hair or temples and then infected her later. It only takes one to nine Ebola virons to infect a new host.

[Anonymous]

This is a good article just released by CNN, talking about 5 things the CDC is doing wrong:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/health/ebola-cdc/index.html?c=homepage-t&page=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YUP THEY THREW HER UNDER THE BUS...AND THEY EXPECT US TO TAKE CARE OF THE NEXT VICTIMS?

Hmmmm

I'm sure you'll feel better if she dies than your ass won't have to pay a dime. You don't mean "expect us to take care." You mean "me take care." Don't put everybody in your self-righteous, self-centered equation.

It is not self righteous! I am in health care and if this is how we treat folks who get sick while taking care of others then, I'm gone.

You should leave and leave NOW. The brave and noble people willing to step up and put themselves on the front line need support and the best infectious prevention training in the world.

Even with high risk prevention training, you don't sound like high risk medical care candidate because you are self-centered. Thst's not a slam. I sense with the best PPE gear, you still wouldn't have the cojones to step up to the plate. It takes more than just PPE gear to put yourself in such a dangerous situation.

I think that Dallas nurse is a hero, a real one. I guarantee her medical peers, the real ones, are going to take care of her whether she made a mistake in disrobing or not.

No one who walks away from such danger is weak or self centered.

No, but it feels so good to blab about the "brave and noble people"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a good article just released by CNN, talking about 5 things the CDC is doing wrong:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/health/ebola-cdc/index.html?c=homepage-t&page=1

Right, the bastion of good journalism, was this posted before or after the latest Hollywood entertainment piece.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YUP THEY THREW HER UNDER THE BUS...AND THEY EXPECT US TO TAKE CARE OF THE NEXT VICTIMS?

Hmmmm

I'm sure you'll feel better if she dies than your ass won't have to pay a dime. You don't mean "expect us to take care." You mean "me take care." Don't put everybody in your self-righteous, self-centered equation.

It is not self righteous! I am in health care and if this is how we treat folks who get sick while taking care of others then, I'm gone.

You should leave and leave NOW. The brave and noble people willing to step up and put themselves on the front line need support and the best infectious prevention training in the world.

Even with high risk prevention training, you don't sound like high risk medical care candidate because you are self-centered. Thst's not a slam. I sense with the best PPE gear, you still wouldn't have the cojones to step up to the plate. It takes more than just PPE gear to put yourself in such a dangerous situation.

I think that Dallas nurse is a hero, a real one. I guarantee her medical peers, the real ones, are going to take care of her whether she made a mistake in disrobing or not.

No one who walks away from such danger is weak or self centered.

?? why not? Seems fairly obvious (np)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a good article just released by CNN, talking about 5 things the CDC is doing wrong:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/13/health/ebola-cdc/index.html?c=homepage-t&page=1

Right, the bastion of good journalism, was this posted before or after the latest Hollywood entertainment piece.

So true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is how a nurse in Sierra Leone suits up against Ebola:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/13/ebola-nurses-describe-life-death-on-frontline-liberia-sierra-leone

Sue Ellen Kovack, 56

Australian Red Cross nurse, Kenema, Sierra Leone

We need to synchronise putting the PPE on with other team members, because if one is slower than the rest we end up waiting and baking in the sun. We have a dresser to make sure we are completely covered, or we work in pairs and check each other. First on are gloves and a jumpsuit. Then a second pair of gloves, a thick duckbill mask, a hood, and an apron that is tied by the dresser so we can untie it with one pull. Then on go the goggles with a generous drizzle of antifogging spray, a final check in the mirror and a final check with each other. The checking does not stop there, as we must ensure during our time in the high-risk area that we are still covered, that a mask has not slipped, or that a piece of skin has not been exposed. If that happens, we leave the area immediately. We check the time – 45 minutes to one hour is the maximum allowed in the PPE.

And here is what she does after her 45 minute to one hour shift:

A minimum of five minutes is needed to undress. We have two tents, where the undressers and sprayers need to be on the ball. The urge to just pull the suit off is strong, but we wait. First, the chlorine spray to the hands. Then, feet apart, arms in the air, we are sprayed from head to toe, first the front, then the back. We wash our hands in 0.5% chlorine. Off come the first set of gloves.

We wash our hands again. Off comes the apron and hopefully it was tied perfectly, as we have to blindly reach around to release the knot; we pull it over our heads. Into the chlorine soak it goes. We wash our hands.

Next go the goggles. We bend over, close our eyes and gently remove them, dunk them three times in the strong chlorine-filled bucket, and then place them in water. We wash our hands.

The hood comes off next. Once again, we bend over, closing our eyes to avoid contamination and dispose of the hood in the garbage. We wash our hands.

Next, the removal of our heavy PPE. Moving slowly – we do everything slowly here – we carefully expose the zipper, hidden under a taped-down flap. We wash our hands. Blindly, we have to find the zipper, as our undressers and sprayers guide us. We wash our hands.

As we shimmy out of our PPE, we are soaked to the bone in sweat, but it feels great. This is the hardest part: to ease off the jumpsuit while kicking your legs back, at the same time standing on it so it doesn’t fly away from you. It’s a balancing act. The sprayer sprays the entire jumpsuit with a stronger chlorine solution and we put it in the garbage. We wash our hands.

Our heavy-duty filtration mask is next. I close my eyes and hope it doesn’t catch in my ponytail. We wash our hands.

The last pair of gloves comes off. Our boots are sprayed from all angles and we have to balance on one foot to cross the line from high risk to low risk. We wash our hands and we are done, stripped down to our scrubs, soaked with sweat.

I need a rehydration solution or water. No food is allowed in the low-risk area. It is too risky to put anything near your mouth from your hands. But I still see people biting their nails, touching their face, rubbing their eyes – risky but automatic responses. Your hands have been washed a trillion times in chlorine, but still, you don’t know how safe your other colleagues have been. You are literally entrusting your life to your work mates. Before I left Australia, I took to wearing a rubber band and each time I caught myself touching my face, I snapped it painfully so I would remember not to do it.

This is so enlightening! Sometimes we learn from those who have the least versus locations (USA) that have the most.

Thanks for sharing this!!

Yes! I've seen this also on a Doctors without Borders special. It is intense. The whole procedure!

The hospital in Dallas apparently put people in the room with standard protective gear, nothing like this at all!
I bet the doctors and nurses had no one who helped them undress, no one who sprayed them down, no multiple hand washes with multiple sets if gloves in chlorine etc. etc.
It looks like they went in with standard contact precaution and had to dress and undress themselves.
I have to say, it is horrible how they put these healthcare professionals in harm's way!
And the CDC thought this was ok and 'low risk'? I'm shocked!
They should have known better!

[Anonymous]

Plus, during some procedures there can be a fine spray of saline mixed with bodily fluids coming at the person. This will get everywhere. Don't get me started on the floor around a patient that has certain procedures done.
I am shocked that they put on standard contact precaution gear only.
Feeling upset for the people who put their lives on the line there at Dallas Presbyterian !

Praying the nurse will recover ...

[Anonymous]

So, when is the CDC going to own up to the fact that this may not have been a “breach in protocol” but a poor protocol to begin with?
(I am already tired of the phrase “breach in protocol.” It rings as true as “most transparent administration.”)

[Anonymous]

It was jerky of the CDC to throw the nurse under the bus. Politics as usual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YUP THEY THREW HER UNDER THE BUS...AND THEY EXPECT US TO TAKE CARE OF THE NEXT VICTIMS?

Hmmmm

I'm sure you'll feel better if she dies than your ass won't have to pay a dime. You don't mean "expect us to take care." You mean "me take care." Don't put everybody in your self-righteous, self-centered equation.

It is not self righteous! I am in health care and if this is how we treat folks who get sick while taking care of others then, I'm gone.

You should leave and leave NOW. The brave and noble people willing to step up and put themselves on the front line need support and the best infectious prevention training in the world.

Even with high risk prevention training, you don't sound like high risk medical care candidate because you are self-centered. Thst's not a slam. I sense with the best PPE gear, you still wouldn't have the cojones to step up to the plate. It takes more than just PPE gear to put yourself in such a dangerous situation.

I think that Dallas nurse is a hero, a real one. I guarantee her medical peers, the real ones, are going to take care of her whether she made a mistake in disrobing or not.

No one who walks away from such danger is weak or self centered.

?? why not? Seems fairly obvious (np)

Shush. Until you are in that situation, looking at a virulently ill person puking blod that could kill you, don't be so sure.

[Anonymous]

Those making the breach accusations probably NEVER took care of a patient since medical school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those making the breach accusations probably NEVER took care of a patient since medical school.

Amen. Maybe the CDC director should have toured a Doctors Without Borders treatment center and talked to the people who have arguably the most experience in treating Ebola patients in the world, before deciding that putting on a flimsy standard contact precaution gown would be sufficient for treating Ebola patients in US hospitals.

Also the advice to West Africa travelers to "call any doctor" on the flyer on arrival....
Ugh! Whoever came up with that, needs to get a different job.
We will just have people walking into the ER and by the time they are identified, they've already exposed dozens of people ..,
They need a 24 hr hotline instead, like poison control, that can alert a hospital in advance, so they don't sit in a crowded waiting room, use the public bathroom while waiting, etc.... There was ZERO thought put into this flyer handout.

[Anonymous]

They need to bring any and all future patients to federal NIH centers where they have the proper resources to do this and separate from other hospital patients. Hell, move them to military bases. It's that serious. You can't depend on every hospital around the country to properly deal with this.