The bible says homosexuality is a sin, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read all the prior posts. But, I will cut to the chase. I do not care what the bible says. It's just an antiquated message that was written by backwards people who lived thousands years ago. I don't believe in a god or a diety. So, who cares what the bible sanctions about people's life styles. Gay or no Gay. Bible is for simple people who are afraid to live... and die.

As an atheist, I find the tone of the above very disturbing. It takes little observation to know that there are extremely intelligent people who believe in God and value their religion. I don't agree with them, but to discount their view of the world would be an insult to my own desire for respect from others. I hope nobody takes PP as a spokesperson for atheists in general. There are plenty of people who are sure they know the truth; some are atheists, some are believers. I don't think they are a majority on either side, but they sure post a lot on DCUM.

Please don't feel you need to apologize for other atheists. They are just as different personality-wise as religious people. Why should one anonymous person on a discussion board be considered a "Spokesperson" for ANYTHING?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read all the prior posts. But, I will cut to the chase. I do not care what the bible says. It's just an antiquated message that was written by backwards people who lived thousands years ago. I don't believe in a god or a diety. So, who cares what the bible sanctions about people's life styles. Gay or no Gay. Bible is for simple people who are afraid to live... and die.

As an atheist, I find the tone of the above very disturbing. It takes little observation to know that there are extremely intelligent people who believe in God and value their religion. I don't agree with them, but to discount their view of the world would be an insult to my own desire for respect from others. I hope nobody takes PP as a spokesperson for atheists in general. There are plenty of people who are sure they know the truth; some are atheists, some are believers. I don't think they are a majority on either side, but they sure post a lot on DCUM.

+1, and thanks. Signed, a believer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read all the prior posts. But, I will cut to the chase. I do not care what the bible says. It's just an antiquated message that was written by backwards people who lived thousands years ago. I don't believe in a god or a diety. So, who cares what the bible sanctions about people's life styles. Gay or no Gay. Bible is for simple people who are afraid to live... and die.

As an atheist, I find the tone of the above very disturbing. It takes little observation to know that there are extremely intelligent people who believe in God and value their religion. I don't agree with them, but to discount their view of the world would be an insult to my own desire for respect from others. I hope nobody takes PP as a spokesperson for atheists in general. There are plenty of people who are sure they know the truth; some are atheists, some are believers. I don't think they are a majority on either side, but they sure post a lot on DCUM.

+1. It's about respect going in both directions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read all the prior posts. But, I will cut to the chase. I do not care what the bible says. It's just an antiquated message that was written by backwards people who lived thousands years ago. I don't believe in a god or a diety. So, who cares what the bible sanctions about people's life styles. Gay or no Gay. Bible is for simple people who are afraid to live... and die.

As an atheist, I find the tone of the above very disturbing. It takes little observation to know that there are extremely intelligent people who believe in God and value their religion. I don't agree with them, but to discount their view of the world would be an insult to my own desire for respect from others. I hope nobody takes PP as a spokesperson for atheists in general. There are plenty of people who are sure they know the truth; some are atheists, some are believers. I don't think they are a majority on either side, but they sure post a lot on DCUM.

You, I like. I wish we were friends IRL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read all the prior posts. But, I will cut to the chase. I do not care what the bible says. It's just an antiquated message that was written by backwards people who lived thousands years ago. I don't believe in a god or a diety. So, who cares what the bible sanctions about people's life styles. Gay or no Gay. Bible is for simple people who are afraid to live... and die.

OP here, also an atheist. Who cares what the bible says? I care. because I live in a society that places great value on it. Also, it has some darn good messages that would benefit anyone. Now if adherents would just select THOSE messages to be passionate about, instead of the hatey judgy ones...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essence of Christianity is love. This is from the New Testament, Matthew 22:36-40:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is no asterisk saying, "love your neighbor unless he's gay." My interpretation is that the sin is failure to love.

No. It is spelled out clearly elsewhere that homosexuality is a sin, along with adultery, fornication, stealing, fibbing and a host of other things. You can still love a person but condemn his/ her sin.

Why do you think YOU are allowed to condemn anyone, for anything? Isn't that god's lookout? Condemning someone else's sin is uncomfortably close to the putting-to-death stuff in the OT that Christians have thankfully moved away from. Do you really want to associate yourself with that?

Well, I condemn murderers, rapists and pedaphiles... and I bet (hope) you do too...

[Anonymous]

I consider myself to be a biblical Christian. I believe that woman are inferior to men, woman working is a sin. However I can't change the laws personally like slavery. I can't have people put to death for working on the sabbath. I just try and live my life the best I can.

I believe it is not a sin to be gay, however it is a sin to act on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essence of Christianity is love. This is from the New Testament, Matthew 22:36-40:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is no asterisk saying, "love your neighbor unless he's gay." My interpretation is that the sin is failure to love.

No. It is spelled out clearly elsewhere that homosexuality is a sin, along with adultery, fornication, stealing, fibbing and a host of other things. You can still love a person but condemn his/ her sin.

Why do you think YOU are allowed to condemn anyone, for anything? Isn't that god's lookout? Condemning someone else's sin is uncomfortably close to the putting-to-death stuff in the OT that Christians have thankfully moved away from. Do you really want to associate yourself with that?

Well, I condemn murderers, rapists and pedaphiles... and I bet (hope) you do too...

Civilly, yes. But we aren't talking about the laws of humans, here. I have nothing to do with their immortal soul, nor would I be so arrogant as to usurp god's authority over it. To claim to know god's mind, when the mystery of his ways is unknowable to us, is the ultimate hubris. As a Christian, you have ONE JOB. Jesus TELLS you to love your enemies. For you to do the exact opposite, to condemn them in a moral context and to shower your hatred and contempt and judgment upon them, makes you a poor Christian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Surely you agree that sin/ evil/ whatever you want to call it does, objectively, exist in the world? And if so, isn't your statement sort of like saying "I just don't see any value in the concept of the color red, or the number eight." Just because you don't "believe" in them, doesn't mean they don't exist and influence many things around you -- even if you want to state that RED or EIGHT don't exist in your world!

Not PP, but this caught my eye. I completely disagree that good and evil exist objectively. I consider them values assigned to events by humans. Good and evil in the world are the expressions of one thing: human nature.

Same goes for colors. We are not even sure if we all see "red" as the same objective "red." We have no idea of what it is in reality, because we don't see the world as it is. Rather, we see the world as we are. I could go on and on, but I hope this explains why some people may disagree with you.

Tell that to the parent of a child who has been murdered by a heinous killer.

It does not change anything.

[Anonymous]

The greatest contribution a Christian - or for that matter a person from any other faith - can make in terms of persuading others to consider adopting their faith is by the life they lead.

You can preach the Bible till kingdom come and it will not have the same effect on others as leading a compassionate, caring life as Christ taught us we should do.

Why do people talk favorably about Pope Francis? It is not because he talks about the Bible and Christianity but because of his message of tolerance and living a humble life.

Why was Mother Teresa so admired? It was because she lived her faith - not just talked about it.

To cite what a PP said and captures in a few words the essence of Christ's message:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

How often do you hear Christians - and especially fundamentalist Christians - cite the above when they expound on Christianity? Rarely have I heard it from most evangelists who spend their time mainly condemning others and the lives they lead because they deem it sinful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The greatest contribution a Christian - or for that matter a person from any other faith - can make in terms of persuading others to consider adopting their faith is by the life they lead.

You can preach the Bible till kingdom come and it will not have the same effect on others as leading a compassionate, caring life as Christ taught us we should do.

Why do people talk favorably about Pope Francis? It is not because he talks about the Bible and Christianity but because of his message of tolerance and living a humble life.

Why was Mother Teresa so admired? It was because she lived her faith - not just talked about it.

To cite what a PP said and captures in a few words the essence of Christ's message:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

How often do you hear Christians - and especially fundamentalist Christians - cite the above when they expound on Christianity? Rarely have I heard it from most evangelists who spend their time mainly condemning others and the lives they lead because they deem it sinful.

Thanks PP. Yes, Christ actually said, "and when you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who pray standing on the street corners where everybody can see them...." The passage goes on, but the point is that making a big, public show of being a Christian isn't going to get you into heaven.

[Anonymous]

I used to attend one of these mega churches - one that gets discussed on this forum

I stopped doing so because in a private communication, the pastor essentially told me that John Paul II - just after he died - would not attain salvation because he was not born again. It was the last time I went to that church.

For me it was everything that was wrong with some pastors: judgmental, narrow interpretation of the Bible, holier than thou, totally lacking in humility and compassion, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The greatest contribution a Christian - or for that matter a person from any other faith - can make in terms of persuading others to consider adopting their faith is by the life they lead.

You can preach the Bible till kingdom come and it will not have the same effect on others as leading a compassionate, caring life as Christ taught us we should do.

Why do people talk favorably about Pope Francis? It is not because he talks about the Bible and Christianity but because of his message of tolerance and living a humble life.

Why was Mother Teresa so admired? It was because she lived her faith - not just talked about it.

To cite what a PP said and captures in a few words the essence of Christ's message:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

How often do you hear Christians - and especially fundamentalist Christians - cite the above when they expound on Christianity? Rarely have I heard it from most evangelists who spend their time mainly condemning others and the lives they lead because they deem it sinful.

I am the PP you're quoting, who referenced Jesus's words in Matthew. His message was one of love and service, as in, "Whatever you did for the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

One would hope that followers of Jesus, the transformative figure behind Christianity, would want to live by his words. He said nothing about being gay, but he said everything about love and inclusion.

[Anonymous]

A thought to mull over:

If Christ appeared today and preached the very same message he did 2000 years ago, how many of those who profess to believe in him and his teachings, would listen to him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A thought to mull over:

If Christ appeared today and preached the very same message he did 2000 years ago, how many of those who profess to believe in him and his teachings, would listen to him?

A good question.