The bible says homosexuality is a sin, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm happy to try, with two points made before starting. 1) I am not a fundamentalist Christian and 2) I have read your question several times and still am not completely sure of what you are asking, so apologies if I am off-base or incomplete here.

I think what I'm reading is this: You want to know why Christians say that many Old Testament "bannings" are now irrelevant to society and thus can be ignored in modern context, but homosexuality is not one of them. OT teachings forbidding homosexuality are still considered sin, even in modern age. Is that right?

The Bible is consistent throughout the OT and the NT that homosexuality is sin, even though Jesus Himself never discusses the topic. There are numerous versus in the NT that describe homosexuality as shameful, sinful, immoral, a wrongdoing, etc. The major difference is that the NT offers hope through Jesus Christ for those who are caught up in the bonds of homosexuality, actively practicing or not.

What am I missing from your question?

That's a great start, thank you. If I understood you correctly, the answer is that the OT can be dismissed, but the NT cannot. But it is very clear that the NT was also subject to social norms that we consider to be outrageous now. (Slavery again.) Given that Christians accept that times and acceptable behaviors have changed, why not that one?

I will mention that I've only ever heard anyone quote Leviticus on the subject. And what kind of a world would this be if we tried to follow all of THOSE rules!?

You understand why it feels like mean-spirited cherry-picking, right?

No, I did not say, nor do I believe, that Christians can dismiss the OT. While there are many differences in approach between the OT and the NT, the Bible is one collection of books with one consistent message throughout. It unfolds throughout history, just as mankind, history and his relationship with God develops, but the story is the same. The NT brings to life many of the prophecies of the OT, for example.

Remember that the OT was given to the nation of Israel, not to "Christians." It was designed to create with these people a relationship with God, show them how to worship HIm and attone for sin, and make the Israelites distinct from other nations as God's chosen people. This OT law is not therefore "intended" for Christians of today. The death and resurection of Jesus took the place of that. But OT law remains a guidepost for how to love God and love your neighbor, even as yourself, as Jesus said to do. (E.g the 10 commandments). 9 of the 10 commandments are clearly repeated in the NT.

As for mean-spirited cherry picking on homosexuality, yes, absolutely, I understand how it can come across that way. And that is tragic. Homosexuality may be a sin in the eyes of Christians, but we know that we are all sinners, and that all of us only have hope through Jesus, no matter what particular sin may plague us individually.

Please, PP, when you post, try to remember that you do not speak for all Christians. This Christian does not regard homosexuality as a sin, but as an inborn trait over which the person has no more control than they do the color of their eyes or hair.

This Christian agrees. Jesus would be marching in pride parades as far as I'm concerned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dude. Become a Buddhist.

Buddhism is all about balance in life and they do not have their eyes in your bedroom and their minds in the gutter all the time.

How come Wirathu and the 969 Movements want to pass a law that would forbid Buddhist women from marrying non-Buddhist men without permission then....dude....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dude. Become a Buddhist.

Buddhism is all about balance in life and they do not have their eyes in your bedroom and their minds in the gutter all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The essence of Christianity is love. This is from the New Testament, Matthew 22:36-40:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is no asterisk saying, "love your neighbor unless he's gay." My interpretation is that the sin is failure to love.

This. Anyone who actually reads Jesus's words -- and doesn't rely on some frustrated old man to tell them what Jesus "said" -- will see that Jesus was about love. All love. He would have loved gay marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm happy to try, with two points made before starting. 1) I am not a fundamentalist Christian and 2) I have read your question several times and still am not completely sure of what you are asking, so apologies if I am off-base or incomplete here.

I think what I'm reading is this: You want to know why Christians say that many Old Testament "bannings" are now irrelevant to society and thus can be ignored in modern context, but homosexuality is not one of them. OT teachings forbidding homosexuality are still considered sin, even in modern age. Is that right?

The Bible is consistent throughout the OT and the NT that homosexuality is sin, even though Jesus Himself never discusses the topic. There are numerous versus in the NT that describe homosexuality as shameful, sinful, immoral, a wrongdoing, etc. The major difference is that the NT offers hope through Jesus Christ for those who are caught up in the bonds of homosexuality, actively practicing or not.

What am I missing from your question?

That's a great start, thank you. If I understood you correctly, the answer is that the OT can be dismissed, but the NT cannot. But it is very clear that the NT was also subject to social norms that we consider to be outrageous now. (Slavery again.) Given that Christians accept that times and acceptable behaviors have changed, why not that one?

I will mention that I've only ever heard anyone quote Leviticus on the subject. And what kind of a world would this be if we tried to follow all of THOSE rules!?

You understand why it feels like mean-spirited cherry-picking, right?

No, I did not say, nor do I believe, that Christians can dismiss the OT. While there are many differences in approach between the OT and the NT, the Bible is one collection of books with one consistent message throughout. It unfolds throughout history, just as mankind, history and his relationship with God develops, but the story is the same. The NT brings to life many of the prophecies of the OT, for example.

Remember that the OT was given to the nation of Israel, not to "Christians." It was designed to create with these people a relationship with God, show them how to worship HIm and attone for sin, and make the Israelites distinct from other nations as God's chosen people. This OT law is not therefore "intended" for Christians of today. The death and resurection of Jesus took the place of that. But OT law remains a guidepost for how to love God and love your neighbor, even as yourself, as Jesus said to do. (E.g the 10 commandments). 9 of the 10 commandments are clearly repeated in the NT.

As for mean-spirited cherry picking on homosexuality, yes, absolutely, I understand how it can come across that way. And that is tragic. Homosexuality may be a sin in the eyes of Christians, but we know that we are all sinners, and that all of us only have hope through Jesus, no matter what particular sin may plague us individually.

Please, PP, when you post, try to remember that you do not speak for all Christians. This Christian does not regard homosexuality as a sin, but as an inborn trait over which the person has no more control than they do the color of their eyes or hair.

This Christian agrees. Jesus would be marching in pride parades as far as I'm concerned.

Just another indication that people make god in their own image.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The essence of Christianity is love. This is from the New Testament, Matthew 22:36-40:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is no asterisk saying, "love your neighbor unless he's gay." My interpretation is that the sin is failure to love.

No. It is spelled out clearly elsewhere that homosexuality is a sin, along with adultery, fornication, stealing, fibbing and a host of other things. You can still love a person but condemn his/ her sin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essence of Christianity is love. This is from the New Testament, Matthew 22:36-40:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is no asterisk saying, "love your neighbor unless he's gay." My interpretation is that the sin is failure to love.

No. It is spelled out clearly elsewhere that homosexuality is a sin, along with adultery, fornication, stealing, fibbing and a host of other things. You can still love a person but condemn his/ her sin.

Okay. You and I have different interpretations of what it means to be Christian. You think it's about personal salvation, and I think it's about trying to live in the spirit of Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essence of Christianity is love. This is from the New Testament, Matthew 22:36-40:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is no asterisk saying, "love your neighbor unless he's gay." My interpretation is that the sin is failure to love.

No. It is spelled out clearly elsewhere that homosexuality is a sin, along with adultery, fornication, stealing, fibbing and a host of other things. You can still love a person but condemn his/ her sin.

Not to me - as a Christian I focus on the words of Christ - it is all that matters to me. What the OT says and other facets of the NT says is not to be dismissed but I will not give it the weight that fundamental Christians choose to do and in the process are selective in their approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essence of Christianity is love. This is from the New Testament, Matthew 22:36-40:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is no asterisk saying, "love your neighbor unless he's gay." My interpretation is that the sin is failure to love.

No. It is spelled out clearly elsewhere that homosexuality is a sin, along with adultery, fornication, stealing, fibbing and a host of other things. You can still love a person but condemn his/ her sin.

Why do you think YOU are allowed to condemn anyone, for anything? Isn't that god's lookout? Condemning someone else's sin is uncomfortably close to the putting-to-death stuff in the OT that Christians have thankfully moved away from. Do you really want to associate yourself with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The essence of Christianity is love. This is from the New Testament, Matthew 22:36-40:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is no asterisk saying, "love your neighbor unless he's gay." My interpretation is that the sin is failure to love.

I could not agree with you more!

For me, in addition to the above, the message of Christ as stated repeatedly in the Gospels in his own words emphasizes love, faith and forgiveness.

I have a sister who is a "born again" who thinks that I am doomed to hell: I always tell her that Christ said not to judge others and that I am more than content to be judged by God when the time comes.

[Anonymous]

OP, I did not read all the prior posts. But, I will cut to the chase. I do not care what the bible says. It's just an antiquated message that was written by backwards people who lived thousands years ago. I don't believe in a god or a diety. So, who cares what the bible sanctions about people's life styles. Gay or no Gay. Bible is for simple people who are afraid to live... and die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read all the prior posts. But, I will cut to the chase. I do not care what the bible says. It's just an antiquated message that was written by backwards people who lived thousands years ago. I don't believe in a god or a diety. So, who cares what the bible sanctions about people's life styles. Gay or no Gay. Bible is for simple people who are afraid to live... and die.

I love life ...... and I am not afraid to die. I am a simple person however ..... though not simple-minded.

Oh ....... and I am not a conventional Christian who preaches hell and damnation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essence of Christianity is love. This is from the New Testament, Matthew 22:36-40:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'" All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is no asterisk saying, "love your neighbor unless he's gay." My interpretation is that the sin is failure to love.

No. It is spelled out clearly elsewhere that homosexuality is a sin, along with adultery, fornication, stealing, fibbing and a host of other things. You can still love a person but condemn his/ her sin.

Not to me - as a Christian I focus on the words of Christ - it is all that matters to me. What the OT says and other facets of the NT says is not to be dismissed but I will not give it the weight that fundamental Christians choose to do and in the process are selective in their approach.

+1. And another +1 to the poster who pointed out that Jesus' message was clear that God is the judge, and not other men/women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read all the prior posts. But, I will cut to the chase. I do not care what the bible says. It's just an antiquated message that was written by backwards people who lived thousands years ago. I don't believe in a god or a diety. So, who cares what the bible sanctions about people's life styles. Gay or no Gay. Bible is for simple people who are afraid to live... and die.

As an atheist, I find the tone of the above very disturbing. It takes little observation to know that there are extremely intelligent people who believe in God and value their religion. I don't agree with them, but to discount their view of the world would be an insult to my own desire for respect from others. I hope nobody takes PP as a spokesperson for atheists in general. There are plenty of people who are sure they know the truth; some are atheists, some are believers. I don't think they are a majority on either side, but they sure post a lot on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude. Become a Buddhist.

Buddhism is all about balance in life and they do not have their eyes in your bedroom and their minds in the gutter all the time.

In other words, you are your own Lord and submit to your own authority.