At what point is URM status finally determined?

[Anonymous]

could charlize theron check 'african-american' if she was a student in hs here applying to college?

or are colleges 50 years from now going to ask for a '23 and me' sample to genetically verify race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a box for "Irish"? Don't think so. If your kids' great great grandfather was the last Cherokee Indian in the bloodline, do you think your kid should have an admissions advantage?

If I can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Cherokee Nation that my kids are direct descendants of an enrolled member (so that they can be enrolled, too), why shouldn't they get "credit" for that in admissions, if the college considers tribal enrollment (not evidence of personal connection) a factor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the Midwest it is not at all unusual to find families that there are many families that obscured Native American heritage in the family history. Some families would, for example, claim “Black Irish” ancestry to account for dark hair and eyes. I knew people that looked entirely European, but held a Cherokee Nation registration card "1/128 degree Cherokee blood."

I’m not surprised that someone with Native American ancestry might wish to continue to obscure that heritage in an area like the DMV where most people see nothing wrong with using a Native American slur as the nickname of the most popular sports team and there is very little support for Native Americans. I’d be surprised if any local high schools had Native American support groups.
All this is to say that I don’t think you should be ashamed of “coming out of the closet” so to speak about your children’s ethnicity. The past (present?) need to obscure Native American ancestry is a manifestation of past discrimination. Your children likely offer a perspective that colleges would value. Indeed, they might consider a college essay on the topic of what it is like to hide their ethnicity. I had a friend whose mixed-race child wrote a compelling essay on what it was like to have a white mother when the child was very dark skinned.

No I think the problem is that having American Indian heritage is actually considered rather cool so I'm more wary of white folks who claim it when it's actually a very small part of their entire ethnic heritage. (Here's looking at you, Elizabeth Warren!) Having a distant ancestor who was Native American is not the same experience as someone who grew up in an Indian family.

Well yeah . . . because someone growing up in an "Indian family" was in a South Asian family, not a Native American family.

It's a very slippery slope trying to set hard rules for who is or is not - a certain ethnicity - that's why schools rely on self identification.

If you pay attention, you'll notice that a lot of folks who are considered "Native American" refer to themselves as American Indians. That's why it's called the National Museum of the American Indian at the Smithsonian, for example (www.nmai.si.edu). I try to follow what I hear people say, eg it can be Latino or Hispanic depending who who's speaking. Among the people concerned, I don't notice a consensus on the exact term, so enough of the lectures.

Yes, and our football team is named Red____ -to honor Native Americans, so I proudly refer to Native Americans by that name. Fail. Washington is not the place to be deciding how to refer to indigenous people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:could charlize theron check 'african-american' if she was a student in hs here applying to college?

or are colleges 50 years from now going to ask for a '23 and me' sample to genetically verify race.

She wasn't American when in high school, was she?

Although I have North African ancestry and am American, I choose not to identify as African American because I understand that term to refer to sub Saharan Africa, but it is not dishonest to be literal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a box for "Irish"? Don't think so. If your kids' great great grandfather was the last Cherokee Indian in the bloodline, do you think your kid should have an admissions advantage?

If I can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Cherokee Nation that my kids are direct descendants of an enrolled member (so that they can be enrolled, too), why shouldn't they get "credit" for that in admissions, if the college considers tribal enrollment (not evidence of personal connection) a factor?

Are you OP, who has been denying the connection for the first 17 years of your kids' lives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a box for "Irish"? Don't think so. If your kids' great great grandfather was the last Cherokee Indian in the bloodline, do you think your kid should have an admissions advantage?

If I can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Cherokee Nation that my kids are direct descendants of an enrolled member (so that they can be enrolled, too), why shouldn't they get "credit" for that in admissions, if the college considers tribal enrollment (not evidence of personal connection) a factor?

Are you OP, who has been denying the connection for the first 17 years of your kids' lives?

denying? what the heck are you talking about? I'm not OP, but don't judge until you've walked a mile in her moccasins http://www.xenodochy.org/ex/indian.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - my husband's family has Native American hertigage.

Do your children have any experience with their N.A. Heritage? URM is about two things. 1) bringing a diversity of experiences, 2) counteracting discrimination. If your kids are culturally white then neither of these will apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a box for "Irish"? Don't think so. If your kids' great great grandfather was the last Cherokee Indian in the bloodline, do you think your kid should have an admissions advantage?

If I can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Cherokee Nation that my kids are direct descendants of an enrolled member (so that they can be enrolled, too), why shouldn't they get "credit" for that in admissions, if the college considers tribal enrollment (not evidence of personal connection) a factor?

Are you OP, who has been denying the connection for the first 17 years of your kids' lives?

denying? what the heck are you talking about? I'm not OP, but don't judge until you've walked a mile in her moccasins http://www.xenodochy.org/ex/indian.html

Don't know about her moccasins, but OP is not NA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - my husband's family has Native American hertigage.

Do your children have any experience with their N.A. Heritage? URM is about two things. 1) bringing a diversity of experiences, 2) counteracting discrimination. If your kids are culturally white then neither of these will apply.

This is the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who has sat on faculty hiring committees, I think Elizabeth Warren is not being truthful when she says she never benefitted from checking the American Indian box.

I could check that box but I don't. I have always identified as white and have not faced the discrimination that historically plagued Indians where I come from. I personally don't think it's right to game the system like this, and that's what you're proposing. If your kid has always identified as white, never faced discrimination, and does not have a family history of the social ills that trouble many families with Indian ancestry, I think you're subverting the purpose of affirmative action.

Totally disagree. Many families his their ethnic origin to avoid prejudice - that itself is a symptom of discrimination. More to the point though, you are reading too much into the question being asked, which is generally something like "what is your ethnic origin?" NOT "have you (or your ancestors) suffered from discrimination due to ethnic origin?" - Or course, MANY white people (Jews, Slavs, Italians, Irish) could answer YES to the latter question - but that is not the question being asked.

Schools look at more than the ethnic origin response. A Native American with a 20815 zip code won't look the same as a native American with a 74105 zip code. First generation college student status stands out too.

The purpose of affirmative action is to provide redress for historical grievances and to increase the representation of historically underrepresented minorities in particular environments, most specifically VREGs -- visible racial/ethnic minorities. The second point affirms and ensures the first. The purpose of affirmative action is NOT to provide preference in admissions or hiring to people who have either identified as part of the majority until it became advantageous to do otherwise.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for the many encouraging responses.

To the "visible minority" poster, do you realize that term is a Canadian construct that is considered racist by the United Nations?

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=f469b36e-c587-40e7-98e5-3aa50a371318&k=23802&__federated=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - my husband's family has Native American hertigage.

Do your children have any experience with their N.A. Heritage? URM is about two things. 1) bringing a diversity of experiences, 2) counteracting discrimination. If your kids are culturally white then neither of these will apply.

Schools can decide how they want to ask for and use information on race. If they ask for what your cultural identity is ( none do to my knowledge) answer honestly. Most ask for race in one way or another. Racial classification is tricky business in a country with an increasing multi-racial population.Many multiracial people do not identify with a single racial community, and, as a result, face certain unique issues regarding their racial identity. Surveys provide different options for response. The Common App, for example, includes options with an invitation to check all that apply: African American/lBlack, Native American/Allasskaa Native, Asian American (specify country of family's origin), Asian including Indian Subcontinent (specify country), Hispanic/Lattiino (specify country), Mexican American/Chiicano,, Native Hawaiian/lPacifiic Islander, PuertoRican, White/Caucasian, and other. The Common Applicatiion does not include a multiracial category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a box for "Irish"? Don't think so. If your kids' great great grandfather was the last Cherokee Indian in the bloodline, do you think your kid should have an admissions advantage?

If I can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Cherokee Nation that my kids are direct descendants of an enrolled member (so that they can be enrolled, too), why shouldn't they get "credit" for that in admissions, if the college considers tribal enrollment (not evidence of personal connection) a factor?

Box-checking on college applications fails to recognize the multifaceted nature of multiracial identity. Multiracial people may view themselves differently than others see them. There is no need for "cultural performance" to prove racial identity. Honesty is the essential starting point. After that, the best advice is to check the box that gives the greatest admissions advantage:

http://www.deloggio.com/diversty/race.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At DD's large public, the generally accepted position among the kids is that you can claim minority status if you have one grandparent (1/4) in that minority. Anything more removed than that and other kids will roll their eyes at you (but they may not know whether you checked the box).

We know some white-looking kids with 1/8 minority status, but very ambitious parents who made them join minority groups at school to establish the track record another PP refers to. I feel sorry for the kids, because I can only imagine how the other kids in these minority student groups reacted to this.

I am confused. I thought that affirmative action does not confer an admissions advantage to those who claim it? Rather, it just ensures diversity in the classroom. Why, then, would "ambitious" parents be acting so cynically?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a box for "Irish"? Don't think so. If your kids' great great grandfather was the last Cherokee Indian in the bloodline, do you think your kid should have an admissions advantage?

If I can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Cherokee Nation that my kids are direct descendants of an enrolled member (so that they can be enrolled, too), why shouldn't they get "credit" for that in admissions, if the college considers tribal enrollment (not evidence of personal connection) a factor?

Box-checking on college applications fails to recognize the multifaceted nature of multiracial identity. Multiracial people may view themselves differently than others see them. There is no need for "cultural performance" to prove racial identity. Honesty is the essential starting point. After that, the best advice is to check the box that gives the greatest admissions advantage:

http://www.deloggio.com/diversty/race.html

Some just calling like they see it -- and I wouldn't quibble with this point of view. But dispense with the "just answer honestly" when you're referring to a kid's generations-ago and previously barely identified and sometimes ignored "heritage". Like, not being a particular URM for 17 years and then "just being honest" or rediscovering your roots when you fill out a college app. Come on.