is a 20 percent tip your baseline or the highest possible achievement?

[Anonymous]

20% is our baseline but we usually round up to the near round number (like if it is another $1 or $2 to get to $90, we will do that).

I used to be a server and feel like the extra $1 or $2 doesn't matter that much to us but it means something for the server.

[Anonymous]

20% before tax. And I increasingly make sure some gratuity hasn't already been added -- if it has, I add not a cent more, out of principle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you tip on pre or post tax?

Post. Not tipping on tax is cheap.

No, it's not. All tipping guides say use the pre-tax amount.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Highest possible achievement.

I am all in favor of doing away with tips altogether, and raising wages.

Eh, this would eliminate any incentive to provide exceptional service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15% is cheap

Really? Why? Example - last night, moderate priced restaurant, my wife, daughter, and I, $60 tab - $10 tip. We were sitting for less than an hour. What does the waitress have - four tables at a time (I don't know)? That's a $40 an hour job tax free.

1. Tips are not tax-free

2. Servers typically have to give a portion of their tips to bussers, bartenders, etc.

3. A server will not have a full section (all tables with customers) for all the hours they work. For example: for a dinner shift on a Thursday night the server might start at 4pm, do pre-work for an hour (slicing lemons, refilling condiments, re-stocking glasses, etc), then have a half full section (let's say 2 tables) for the second hour, a full section (4 tables) for the next two hours, a half full section for another hour, and then spend an hour doing side-work and cleaning the section able tending to one last table.

Using the example of your restaurant and tip from last night, that's 9 tables = $90. $10-$15 of that tipped out to others leaves $75-80. The server worked 5 hours, making (let's say) $2.50/hr + tips, so roughly $90. That's $18/hr, all of which is taxed.

That all assumes that 1) all tables turn over in an hour (they often don't), 2) your tips average 15% (they often don't when someone forgets to leave the credit card slip, or someone leaves a poor tip), and 3) that it's a reasonably busy evening (evenings early in the week are slower, and lunch shifts can be very slow depending on location) and the restaurant is appropriated staffed (you're not getting two few tables or being cut early because there are too many servers working), and 4) you're working a section in which people want to sit (they're not asking for tables in a different part of the restaurant) and your host/hostess is appropriately rotating the seating.

$18/hr certainly isn't bad for a decent night when everything goes right, but it's a far cry from the $40/hr (tax free, lol) you think your server is earning when you tip 15%. When I worked as a server (while in grad school) at a typical chain restaurant (most bills probably in the $25-50 range), I'd leave with anywhere from $15-$100 in tips for shifts ranging from 4 hours to 10 hrs. It was enough to pay my (cheap) rent, car insurance, etc., but left very little extra. If I had been making $40/hr I would have done it for longer than 9 months!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15% is cheap

Really? Why? Example - last night, moderate priced restaurant, my wife, daughter, and I, $60 tab - $10 tip. We were sitting for less than an hour. What does the waitress have - four tables at a time (I don't know)? That's a $40 an hour job tax free.

1. Tips are not tax-free

2. Servers typically have to give a portion of their tips to bussers, bartenders, etc.

3. A server will not have a full section (all tables with customers) for all the hours they work. For example: for a dinner shift on a Thursday night the server might start at 4pm, do pre-work for an hour (slicing lemons, refilling condiments, re-stocking glasses, etc), then have a half full section (let's say 2 tables) for the second hour, a full section (4 tables) for the next two hours, a half full section for another hour, and then spend an hour doing side-work and cleaning the section able tending to one last table.

Using the example of your restaurant and tip from last night, that's 9 tables = $90. $10-$15 of that tipped out to others leaves $75-80. The server worked 5 hours, making (let's say) $2.50/hr + tips, so roughly $90. That's $18/hr, all of which is taxed.

That all assumes that 1) all tables turn over in an hour (they often don't), 2) your tips average 15% (they often don't when someone forgets to leave the credit card slip, or someone leaves a poor tip), and 3) that it's a reasonably busy evening (evenings early in the week are slower, and lunch shifts can be very slow depending on location) and the restaurant is appropriated staffed (you're not getting two few tables or being cut early because there are too many servers working), and 4) you're working a section in which people want to sit (they're not asking for tables in a different part of the restaurant) and your host/hostess is appropriately rotating the seating.

$18/hr certainly isn't bad for a decent night when everything goes right, but it's a far cry from the $40/hr (tax free, lol) you think your server is earning when you tip 15%. When I worked as a server (while in grad school) at a typical chain restaurant (most bills probably in the $25-50 range), I'd leave with anywhere from $15-$100 in tips for shifts ranging from 4 hours to 10 hrs. It was enough to pay my (cheap) rent, car insurance, etc., but left very little extra. If I had been making $40/hr I would have done it for longer than 9 months!!

Oh, and I forgot to add: keep in mind that servers are typically get zero benefits. The kind of things that come with other types of jobs -Ike health insurance, retirement, paid sick leave and person leave time, etc. - and so pay for those things (if they can afford them) OOP. If they're lucky they can call in sick when necessary and just lose the money they would have earned during that time, not lose their job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Highest possible achievement.

I am all in favor of doing away with tips altogether, and raising wages.

Eh, this would eliminate any incentive to provide exceptional service.

And yet it's done in Europe with excellent (and non-fawning/nagging) service.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand all the "but just think how hard servers have it." That's why there are other jobs out there. No one is holding a gun to your head to be stuck as a server for any longer than you want or need. Aim higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you tip on pre or post tax?

Post. Not tipping on tax is cheap.

No, it's not. All tipping guides say use the pre-tax amount.

The "guides" may say it's acceptable .... it's still absurdly cheap. Really, if you can't afford to tip decently on the bill for great service, don't go out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand all the "but just think how hard servers have it." That's why there are other jobs out there. No one is holding a gun to your head to be stuck as a server for any longer than you want or need. Aim higher.

I see this as a justification for underpaying people all the time. But someone has to do that job, right? And you want a good experience when you go out to eat and not the server who couldn't possibly get a job anywhere else .... right?

How about just paying people well? Not extravagently, but if a server does an excellent job, why not tip them 20%?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand all the "but just think how hard servers have it." That's why there are other jobs out there. No one is holding a gun to your head to be stuck as a server for any longer than you want or need. Aim higher.

what rock have you been living under? Most jobs in this country are service jobs. Most of the good manufacturing jobs are overseas. Of the other jobs remaining, there are more people wanting the than positions open. Should you give up your awesome job so someone else can have it?

[Anonymous]

20% pre tax is my baseline, will go up for truly exceptional service, and have no qualms about going all the way down to zero for terrible service, which I've only done twice. I think exceptional service is increasingly rare, and everyone who tips 20 percent no matter the service out of pity is only exacerbating the problem. Tips are now obligatory and expected, and servers feel entitled to it and don't see a reason to work for it. If you're a shitty waiter/waitress, you'll be getting no tip from me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you tip on pre or post tax?

Post. Not tipping on tax is cheap.

No, it's not. All tipping guides say use the pre-tax amount.

The "guides" may say it's acceptable .... it's still absurdly cheap. Really, if you can't afford to tip decently on the bill for great service, don't go out.

DP, now that is just not acceptable. If everyone decided that they did not want to tip the way you think is appropriate, who would fill the restaurants. Then how much would the servers receive, the mandatory minimum wage. Put them out of business is your motto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand all the "but just think how hard servers have it." That's why there are other jobs out there. No one is holding a gun to your head to be stuck as a server for any longer than you want or need. Aim higher.

I see this as a justification for underpaying people all the time. But someone has to do that job, right? And you want a good experience when you go out to eat and not the server who couldn't possibly get a job anywhere else .... right?

How about just paying people well? Not extravagently, but if a server does an excellent job, why not tip them 20%?

What's the tipping point. The suggested rate keeps rising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you tip on pre or post tax?

Post. Not tipping on tax is cheap.

And this is what I do not understand. Why do you tip on the tax? Do you also tip on a bottle of wine? JA because I am baffled by all this tipping.

I am 50. I remember when the tip was 10%. I guess by the time I am in retirement, the minimum tip will be 40%, if not half the bill. I was at Jaleo's the other day and the suggested tip started at 20%. On the bill the suggested tips were 20, 25 and 30%. I guess they keep moving the tip goal.

Yes, I tip on a bottle of wine. You don't? People don't?