Eliminating AAP Centers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they should have center only schools. It would solve the haves v. have nots problem. I have one AAP and one not. The not is on a school with LLIV. I think it's totally unfair that the LLIV kids get their own (much smaller) class and the "have nots" get a class twice the size and shockingly little differentiation (i.e. homeroom homogenous instruction for math and LA). The difference is appalling between what my 2 kids (one center in AAP on one Gen Ed in a non-center school with LLIV) get. I'm beyond pissed off.

FCPS was always like that and I assume has gotten worse especially for those schools with over 25% in Local level iv. We were in a district with only a 2x week pullout for GT and the teachers differentiated in the classroom. Math and reading groups with variations in science/social studies. This is the fault of oversight by instructional services and cluster directors. The AAP dept 's power and responsibilities have grown since we moved here.

The sheer volume in AAP represents an absurdity that at the middle school level all are not taught in base schools.

I would think local level IV would cause far more drama since many of the kids are pupil place by the pricipal instead of selected by an anonymous committee.

No principal placed kids in our LLIV, so the LLIV class is half the size of the regular classrooms.

Well. That would be a problem.

If they have local level IV they need to staff a full classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely makes sense to have more AAP classes than GE in a grade in a center school. It draws from many schools. Were you not aware your neighborhood school was a center school when you bought your house?

Oh for God's sake... this tired argument again? The point many of us are trying to make is that there should not be a public school where Gen. Ed. students are in the minority. Thus, the argument for either making centers AAP only or doing away with centers altogether, vastly reducing the AAP population, and keeping AAP students in their base school. I'm not sure why a public school system is spending so much time, energy, testing, and busing on this one group of kids, when we are all paying taxes into this system.

Re: your statement in bold above: Exactly the same can be said about ANY group of students that receives any form of any specialized attention. "Why spend time, energy, testing busing on this group of kids?"

Would you really dream of making that same statement about other groups? Would you complain in just those words about, say, special ed students? Students who need remedial help because they speak another language or have parents who don't speak English well enough to help their kids academically at home? Students who need specialized bus pickups because they use wheelchairs? Students to whom the county schools provide aides in the classroom so they can even BE in a public school setting?

No. You wouldn't dare. People recognize that we NEED to help the kids who need remedial help, specialized transportation, special ed classes, aides in the classroom. We provide these things for them with our tax dollars because we recognize as a society that they have a right to get to school and get the best possible education there.

But God forbid that we should recognize that kids who are academically advanced need any form of help too, so that they don't lose all interest in school when so-called "differentiation" doesn't work (and it does not). They're supposed to just go with the flow and take whatever their base school can give them. Not all of them have rich parents, or parents who can drive them to center schools, or parents able to provide academic help and challenge at home. But these kids should not get any special attention, in your world, because they might cost a buck. If you said that about any other group, this thread would blow up with outrage at you. Yet you can say it about these kids. Hypocrite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they should have center only schools. It would solve the haves v. have nots problem. I have one AAP and one not. The not is on a school with LLIV. I think it's totally unfair that the LLIV kids get their own (much smaller) class and the "have nots" get a class twice the size and shockingly little differentiation (i.e. homeroom homogenous instruction for math and LA). The difference is appalling between what my 2 kids (one center in AAP on one Gen Ed in a non-center school with LLIV) get. I'm beyond pissed off.

FCPS was always like that and I assume has gotten worse especially for those schools with over 25% in Local level iv. We were in a district with only a 2x week pullout for GT and the teachers differentiated in the classroom. Math and reading groups with variations in science/social studies. This is the fault of oversight by instructional services and cluster directors. The AAP dept 's power and responsibilities have grown since we moved here.

The sheer volume in AAP represents an absurdity that at the middle school level all are not taught in base schools.

I would think local level IV would cause far more drama since many of the kids are pupil place by the pricipal instead of selected by an anonymous committee.

No principal placed kids in our LLIV, so the LLIV class is half the size of the regular classrooms.

I posted "sheer volume..." and it is absurd and irresponsible that your principal did these ridiculously inequitable class sizes. Also the level iv and all aap include the parental referrals comprised of those who did not make the generous pool and those who made the pool but not the final fcps cut.

Therefore there can be more qualified kids than some in level iv or aap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely makes sense to have more AAP classes than GE in a grade in a center school. It draws from many schools. Were you not aware your neighborhood school was a center school when you bought your house?

...But God forbid that we should recognize that kids who are academically advanced need any form of help too, so that they don't lose all interest in school when so-called "differentiation" doesn't work (and it does not). They're supposed to just go with the flow and take whatever their base school can give them. Not all of them have rich parents, or parents who can drive them to center schools, or parents able to provide academic help and challenge at home. But these kids should not get any special attention, in your world, because they might cost a buck. If you said that about any other group, this thread would blow up with outrage at you. Yet you can say it about these kids. Hypocrite.

Sorry but many districts do differentiation. Smaller ones with states with more LEA's. County wide school systems are problematical. FCPS went from 3 areas to supervise to 8 so the growth of 5 more HIGH LEVEL SITE MANAGERS should have improved the slop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they should have center only schools. It would solve the haves v. have nots problem. I have one AAP and one not. The not is on a school with LLIV. I think it's totally unfair that the LLIV kids get their own (much smaller) class and the "have nots" get a class twice the size and shockingly little differentiation (i.e. homeroom homogenous instruction for math and LA). The difference is appalling between what my 2 kids (one center in AAP on one Gen Ed in a non-center school with LLIV) get. I'm beyond pissed off.

FCPS was always like that and I assume has gotten worse especially for those schools with over 25% in Local level iv. We were in a district with only a 2x week pullout for GT and the teachers differentiated in the classroom. Math and reading groups with variations in science/social studies. This is the fault of oversight by instructional services and cluster directors. The AAP dept 's power and responsibilities have grown since we moved here.

The sheer volume in AAP represents an absurdity that at the middle school level all are not taught in base schools.

The AAP Department has power?!?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Site-based management, my friend. Site-based management trumps the AAP department. Principals can do whatever they want with AAP. The AAP department has no oversight over how principals implement AAP. That's why there are such variations from school to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eliminate AAP

I don't disagree, but I don't think they are allowed to under Virginia law.

Virginia law doesn't say they need to have a separate program -- just that they should make sure "gifted" kids (not ones who are merely advanced or brighter than average) get the sort of specialized education they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eliminate AAP

I don't disagree, but I don't think they are allowed to under Virginia law.

Virginia law doesn't say they need to have a separate program -- just that they should make sure "gifted" kids (not ones who are merely advanced or brighter than average) get the sort of specialized education they need.

Exactly. And with the AAP admittance criteria as it stands today, the majority of kids in AAP are not gifted and do not need any kind of separate program.

[Anonymous]

^ yes!! eliminate AAP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely makes sense to have more AAP classes than GE in a grade in a center school. It draws from many schools. Were you not aware your neighborhood school was a center school when you bought your house?

Oh for God's sake... this tired argument again? The point many of us are trying to make is that there should not be a public school where Gen. Ed. students are in the minority. Thus, the argument for either making centers AAP only or doing away with centers altogether, vastly reducing the AAP population, and keeping AAP students in their base school. I'm not sure why a public school system is spending so much time, energy, testing, and busing on this one group of kids, when we are all paying taxes into this system.

Re: your statement in bold above: Exactly the same can be said about ANY group of students that receives any form of any specialized attention. "Why spend time, energy, testing busing on this group of kids?"

Would you really dream of making that same statement about other groups? Would you complain in just those words about, say, special ed students? Students who need remedial help because they speak another language or have parents who don't speak English well enough to help their kids academically at home? Students who need specialized bus pickups because they use wheelchairs? Students to whom the county schools provide aides in the classroom so they can even BE in a public school setting?
No. You wouldn't dare. People recognize that we NEED to help the kids who need remedial help, specialized transportation, special ed classes, aides in the classroom. We provide these things for them with our tax dollars because we recognize as a society that they have a right to get to school and get the best possible education there.

But God forbid that we should recognize that kids who are academically advanced need any form of help too, so that they don't lose all interest in school when so-called "differentiation" doesn't work (and it does not). They're supposed to just go with the flow and take whatever their base school can give them. Not all of them have rich parents, or parents who can drive them to center schools, or parents able to provide academic help and challenge at home. But these kids should not get any special attention, in your world, because they might cost a buck. If you said that about any other group, this thread would blow up with outrage at you. Yet you can say it about these kids. Hypocrite.

Let me get this straight: you are seriously, and with a straight face, arguing that the vast majority of AAP kids can be equated to the kids described in bold above? You honestly think that academically advanced kids, most of whom are not gifted, should be afforded the same consideration as those who have actual *special needs* and require all the help they can receive just to get to school each day and learn? You're saying that we should spend the same amount of money as we do on these children who honestly need remedial help, on children who are "bored" in school and might need differentiation, by providing said children with a special center in which they get slightly advanced classwork? I am actually embarrassed for you that you would even equate AAP kids with all the truly special needs kids in the area.

The one and only thing you got right is that we as a society should absolutely pay to educate those kids who need "remedial help, specialized transportation, special ed classes, aides in the classroom. We provide these things for them with our tax dollars because we recognize as a society that they have a right to get to school and get the best possible education there." However, nothing in that description applies to AAP kids. Kids who are truly gifted, so much so that they cannot be educated in a general ed classroom, should also be entitled to a specialized learning environment. But children who are simply bored in the classroom? Sorry, but I'm not interested in supplementing their education. And I doubt many other people are either.

[Anonymous]

Not trying to be argumentative, but what are you proposing we do with children who are truly gifted? I have two and AAP is the closest thing FCPS has to keeping them challenged. Even that isn't doing it. The base school would not come close. What should they do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not trying to be argumentative, but what are you proposing we do with children who are truly gifted? I have two and AAP is the closest thing FCPS has to keeping them challenged. Even that isn't doing it. The base school would not come close. What should they do?

I would be fine with a specialized program for the actually gifted. But that program would have to be far, far smaller than it currently is.

[Anonymous]

And you think the rat race to get into AAP is bad....wait until you make it an even smaller group!

[Anonymous]

NP here. I really don't think the craziness would be nearly as bad if it were returned to the much smaller percentage. I thing most parents could understand that their child is not in the top 2-3%. They get crazy when it is 20%. I really wish that AAP would return to GT but it is unlikely because of all the diversity pressures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I really don't think the craziness would be nearly as bad if it were returned to the much smaller percentage. I thing most parents could understand that their child is not in the top 2-3%. They get crazy when it is 20%. I really wish that AAP would return to GT but it is unlikely because of all the diversity pressures.

Completely agree with you. I think if it were to return to the size it was during GT days, everyone would understand that the program is in place for highly gifted kids, not just advanced. Making it the top % of kids would show that FCPS was serving the exceptionally gifted. There are many parents who would be all for this.

[Anonymous]

I can just imagine the drama if they move everything back to the base school. Accusations of tracking, favoritism. Parents having fits that their kid is not getting the same enrichment as someone else's kid who they deam not worthy.

Instead of the drama being a once a year event at only a small number of schools, it will be a constant headache at every single school.

No thanks.