Charters v JKLM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most people's issue with the Hill isn't the elementary schools, it is the middle and high school options. Of course this can change in the next several years, but if you are looking at the situation right now, WOTP is that way to go for 14 years of security.

I guess it depends on whether OP is willing to move again if (a) she doesn't get a good middle/HS option through the charter/OOB public lotteries in 12 years or b) the schools don't improve. I live in the city because I really like the urban feel--I'm in Adams-Morgan so I can walk to everything, including two large supermarkets that are less than two blocks from my house. I easily live without a car. Given that choice, if I felt I needed to get a place inbounds for a good school, then I would much rather be on the Hill for more than a decade and then move if I had to for schools. But between Basis, Latin, Cap City, and some other schools that tend to take a lot of kids in the middle school years, I think OP would be okay.

I live in North Cleveland Park and am also within walking distance of two large supermarkets, two metro stops, a library, post office, some restaurants (granted not the best in the city), and several parks. Not saying there is anything wrong with AdMo (I used to live there myself) or Capitol Hill, but I do object to the notion that once you move WOTP you give up all urban conveniences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most people's issue with the Hill isn't the elementary schools, it is the middle and high school options. Of course this can change in the next several years, but if you are looking at the situation right now, WOTP is that way to go for 14 years of security.

I guess it depends on whether OP is willing to move again if (a) she doesn't get a good middle/HS option through the charter/OOB public lotteries in 12 years or b) the schools don't improve. I live in the city because I really like the urban feel--I'm in Adams-Morgan so I can walk to everything, including two large supermarkets that are less than two blocks from my house. I easily live without a car. Given that choice, if I felt I needed to get a place inbounds for a good school, then I would much rather be on the Hill for more than a decade and then move if I had to for schools. But between Basis, Latin, Cap City, and some other schools that tend to take a lot of kids in the middle school years, I think OP would be okay.

I live in North Cleveland Park and am also within walking distance of two large supermarkets, two metro stops, a library, post office, some restaurants (granted not the best in the city), and several parks. Not saying there is anything wrong with AdMo (I used to live there myself) or Capitol Hill, but I do object to the notion that once you move WOTP you give up all urban conveniences.

Cleveland Park is MUCH less dense than Adams-Morgan. And much less mixed-use. If I lived WOTP, I'd probably want to live in CP--but it nowhere near compares with the urban living you get in Adams-Morgan. And more broadly: Cleveland Park itself--though less dense than Adams-Morgan--is MUCH more dense than most other areas WOTP. For example, the people I know who live in AU Park and are IB for Janney have to drive everywhere. And that works for them--would not work for me, especially at the prices they pay for the homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:958, are you happy about your zoned middle and high school as well?

Well our zoned middle school just closed at the end of last year so we'll have to find out. But we're a good number of years out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most people's issue with the Hill isn't the elementary schools, it is the middle and high school options. Of course this can change in the next several years, but if you are looking at the situation right now, WOTP is that way to go for 14 years of security.

I guess it depends on whether OP is willing to move again if (a) she doesn't get a good middle/HS option through the charter/OOB public lotteries in 12 years or b) the schools don't improve. I live in the city because I really like the urban feel--I'm in Adams-Morgan so I can walk to everything, including two large supermarkets that are less than two blocks from my house. I easily live without a car. Given that choice, if I felt I needed to get a place inbounds for a good school, then I would much rather be on the Hill for more than a decade and then move if I had to for schools. But between Basis, Latin, Cap City, and some other schools that tend to take a lot of kids in the middle school years, I think OP would be okay.

I live in North Cleveland Park and am also within walking distance of two large supermarkets, two metro stops, a library, post office, some restaurants (granted not the best in the city), and several parks. Not saying there is anything wrong with AdMo (I used to live there myself) or Capitol Hill, but I do object to the notion that once you move WOTP you give up all urban conveniences.

Cleveland Park is MUCH less dense than Adams-Morgan. And much less mixed-use. If I lived WOTP, I'd probably want to live in CP--but it nowhere near compares with the urban living you get in Adams-Morgan. And more broadly: Cleveland Park itself--though less dense than Adams-Morgan--is MUCH more dense than most other areas WOTP. For example, the people I know who live in AU Park and are IB for Janney have to drive everywhere. And that works for them--would not work for me, especially at the prices they pay for the homes.

Remind me -what school that Adams Morgan feeds into are you sending your children to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most people's issue with the Hill isn't the elementary schools, it is the middle and high school options. Of course this can change in the next several years, but if you are looking at the situation right now, WOTP is that way to go for 14 years of security.

I guess it depends on whether OP is willing to move again if (a) she doesn't get a good middle/HS option through the charter/OOB public lotteries in 12 years or b) the schools don't improve. I live in the city because I really like the urban feel--I'm in Adams-Morgan so I can walk to everything, including two large supermarkets that are less than two blocks from my house. I easily live without a car. Given that choice, if I felt I needed to get a place inbounds for a good school, then I would much rather be on the Hill for more than a decade and then move if I had to for schools. But between Basis, Latin, Cap City, and some other schools that tend to take a lot of kids in the middle school years, I think OP would be okay.

I live in North Cleveland Park and am also within walking distance of two large supermarkets, two metro stops, a library, post office, some restaurants (granted not the best in the city), and several parks. Not saying there is anything wrong with AdMo (I used to live there myself) or Capitol Hill, but I do object to the notion that once you move WOTP you give up all urban conveniences.

Cleveland Park is MUCH less dense than Adams-Morgan. And much less mixed-use. If I lived WOTP, I'd probably want to live in CP--but it nowhere near compares with the urban living you get in Adams-Morgan. And more broadly: Cleveland Park itself--though less dense than Adams-Morgan--is MUCH more dense than most other areas WOTP. For example, the people I know who live in AU Park and are IB for Janney have to drive everywhere. And that works for them--would not work for me, especially at the prices they pay for the homes.

Remind me -what school that Adams Morgan feeds into are you sending your children to?

I don't send my kid to any school now--on this board because we're applying to the lottery. We are IB for Cooke and have proximity for Reed, both of which have great early childhood schools. We are also right near Appletree Col Heights, which went through its entire waitlist this year, so we are hopeful that we can get a slot there if we don't get into a dual language program, which is our goal. Our hope is for Spanish immersion, so we are hoping for a DCPS immersion school (Bancroft, Reed, Powell are at the top of the list since they are so easy for us to get to) or a charter (MV, Stokes, LAMB).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most people's issue with the Hill isn't the elementary schools, it is the middle and high school options. Of course this can change in the next several years, but if you are looking at the situation right now, WOTP is that way to go for 14 years of security.

I guess it depends on whether OP is willing to move again if (a) she doesn't get a good middle/HS option through the charter/OOB public lotteries in 12 years or b) the schools don't improve. I live in the city because I really like the urban feel--I'm in Adams-Morgan so I can walk to everything, including two large supermarkets that are less than two blocks from my house. I easily live without a car. Given that choice, if I felt I needed to get a place inbounds for a good school, then I would much rather be on the Hill for more than a decade and then move if I had to for schools. But between Basis, Latin, Cap City, and some other schools that tend to take a lot of kids in the middle school years, I think OP would be okay.

I live in North Cleveland Park and am also within walking distance of two large supermarkets, two metro stops, a library, post office, some restaurants (granted not the best in the city), and several parks. Not saying there is anything wrong with AdMo (I used to live there myself) or Capitol Hill, but I do object to the notion that once you move WOTP you give up all urban conveniences.

Cleveland Park is MUCH less dense than Adams-Morgan. And much less mixed-use. If I lived WOTP, I'd probably want to live in CP--but it nowhere near compares with the urban living you get in Adams-Morgan. And more broadly: Cleveland Park itself--though less dense than Adams-Morgan--is MUCH more dense than most other areas WOTP. For example, the people I know who live in AU Park and are IB for Janney have to drive everywhere. And that works for them--would not work for me, especially at the prices they pay for the homes.

Remind me -what school that Adams Morgan feeds into are you sending your children to?

I don't send my kid to any school now--on this board because we're applying to the lottery. We are IB for Cooke and have proximity for Reed, both of which have great early childhood schools. We are also right near Appletree Col Heights, which went through its entire waitlist this year, so we are hopeful that we can get a slot there if we don't get into a dual language program, which is our goal. Our hope is for Spanish immersion, so we are hoping for a DCPS immersion school (Bancroft, Reed, Powell are at the top of the list since they are so easy for us to get to) or a charter (MV, Stokes, LAMB).

Oh, and we are IB for Wilson, so we are hoping to find a solution that takes us through 8th grade. Bancroft would be ideal since it feeds to Deal. (We are not IB for Deal.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:958, are you happy about your zoned middle and high school as well?

Irrelevant if your kid's not in MS or HS. Otherwise the argument is "move now, otherwise you'll have to move later".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:958, are you happy about your zoned middle and high school as well?

Irrelevant if your kid's not in MS or HS. Otherwise the argument is "move now, otherwise you'll have to move later".

I agree. School can change a lot in a decade, as can boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to avoid the headache of a lottery move IB for one of the sought after schools in Ward 3. However, could you use someone’s address to enter the lottery for a Charter and then move to your neighborhood of choice?

Calling it now: T-R-O-L-L.

I don't understand why this can't be done. They are moving to DC. I would do it if I were in her shoes.

Because it's illegal. You need to lottery using your address. You can make a note that you will move to DC if you get in, but you cannot pretend that you live somewhere that you don't.

Using "your" address. I can see this if you are shooting for an IB school, but other than that I don't see a problem with it.

Just because you would do it doesn't mean that it's legal. It's not.

Not a troll. Why exactly is this illegal?

1. Can a non-resident apply to a charter? DC Code § 38-1802.06 (a) says "Enrollment in a public charter school" is open to "all students who are residents of the District of Columbia and, if space is available, to nonresident students [who pay tuition]." So there is nothing illegal about applying to a charter as a non-resident.

2. Is there anything illegal (we are not talking not immoral) about lying about your address to a charter school in your application (we are not talking about enrollment)? The only mention of the residency of applicants in the code is: "If there are more applications to enroll in a public charter school from students who are residents of the District of Columbia than there are spaces available, students shall be admitted using a random selection process." So lying on your application could make it difficult for the school to figure out whether there are more applications from D.C. residents than spaces available. As a practical matter this doesn't make any difference because every charter school in demand has more applications than spaces available, and they all conduct lotteries.

3. Is it residency fraud? DC Code § 38-312 provides criminal penalties for "Any person ... who knowingly supplies false information to a public official in connection with student residency verification." But residency verification only happens when you enroll, not when you apply.

4. Does it violate any other provision? DC Code § 38-306 requires proof of residency for all students "enrolled" in a charter. Not for applicants. DC Code § 38-308 says how to establish residency for "each student enrolling in a DCPS school or public charter school," and states that residency "shall be established by October 5, or within 10 days of the time of initial enrollment, whichever occurs later."

I cannot find any reason this is illegal. It might violate, either implicitly or explicitly, a particular charter's application rules, but I don't see anything illegal about it.




Disclaimer: This general discussion of DC law is not legal advice, and should not be relied on by anyone. It is not intended to and does not create any attorney-client relationship with anyone. If anyone reading this wants a legal opinion about this or anything else, they should contact a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

To follow up on the above, suppose in January a family decides to relocate to DC because one parent has a new job, but the family decides to have their children complete the school year and move over the summer. The parent with the new job has to start immediately, however, so he rents a small apartment in DC. He uses that address for work and pays DC taxes. The family buys a house in DC in February and closes on it in March, with a 4-month rentback provision for the sellers. The family will move from their current locations to the new house in September. They will have no problem truthfully establishing residency at that address by Oct. 5.

It's now April 1, and the dad wants to apply to charters and DCPS lotteries. Is it illegal to provide his current address on the charter applications? Is it illegal to provide his new home's address to apply IB for DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would much rather live on the Hill (IB for a good school) than WOTP. It is much more urban on the Hill. That's what I would do if I were OP, and then maybe also try the charter lotteries if there were some that really appealed.

We have several friends on the Hill who are moving out of the local ES, even Brent, as OOB students at WOTP schools. OP, we are WOTP and applied for a language-immersion charter. We ultimately turned it down because we love the neighborhood feel at our JKLM school. We weren't convinced about the charter's immersion methods--that's for another thread--but the differences in resources killed it for us. Our school has a large library, fantastic programs, afterschool activities, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to avoid the headache of a lottery move IB for one of the sought after schools in Ward 3. However, could you use someone’s address to enter the lottery for a Charter and then move to your neighborhood of choice?

Calling it now: T-R-O-L-L.

I don't understand why this can't be done. They are moving to DC. I would do it if I were in her shoes.

Because it's illegal. You need to lottery using your address. You can make a note that you will move to DC if you get in, but you cannot pretend that you live somewhere that you don't.

Using "your" address. I can see this if you are shooting for an IB school, but other than that I don't see a problem with it.

Just because you would do it doesn't mean that it's legal. It's not.

Not a troll. Why exactly is this illegal?

1. Can a non-resident apply to a charter? DC Code § 38-1802.06 (a) says "Enrollment in a public charter school" is open to "all students who are residents of the District of Columbia and, if space is available, to nonresident students [who pay tuition]." So there is nothing illegal about applying to a charter as a non-resident.

2. Is there anything illegal (we are not talking not immoral) about lying about your address to a charter school in your application (we are not talking about enrollment)? The only mention of the residency of applicants in the code is: "If there are more applications to enroll in a public charter school from students who are residents of the District of Columbia than there are spaces available, students shall be admitted using a random selection process." So lying on your application could make it difficult for the school to figure out whether there are more applications from D.C. residents than spaces available. As a practical matter this doesn't make any difference because every charter school in demand has more applications than spaces available, and they all conduct lotteries.

3. Is it residency fraud? DC Code § 38-312 provides criminal penalties for "Any person ... who knowingly supplies false information to a public official in connection with student residency verification." But residency verification only happens when you enroll, not when you apply.

4. Does it violate any other provision? DC Code § 38-306 requires proof of residency for all students "enrolled" in a charter. Not for applicants. DC Code § 38-308 says how to establish residency for "each student enrolling in a DCPS school or public charter school," and states that residency "shall be established by October 5, or within 10 days of the time of initial enrollment, whichever occurs later."

I cannot find any reason this is illegal. It might violate, either implicitly or explicitly, a particular charter's application rules, but I don't see anything illegal about it.




Disclaimer: This general discussion of DC law is not legal advice, and should not be relied on by anyone. It is not intended to and does not create any attorney-client relationship with anyone. If anyone reading this wants a legal opinion about this or anything else, they should contact a lawyer.

Seriously, you need that disclaimer on an anonymous message board? *eyeroll*

[Anonymous]

OK should we not move somewhere unless we know middle school is all good? That's a tall order for a lot of DC even west of the Park.

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty sure that if you ask DCPS or DCPCSB whether it is legal to use a friend's address for the lottery you will get a clear no. Be honest with the charters about your situation and let them make a call.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most people's issue with the Hill isn't the elementary schools, it is the middle and high school options. Of course this can change in the next several years, but if you are looking at the situation right now, WOTP is that way to go for 14 years of security.

I guess it depends on whether OP is willing to move again if (a) she doesn't get a good middle/HS option through the charter/OOB public lotteries in 12 years or b) the schools don't improve. I live in the city because I really like the urban feel--I'm in Adams-Morgan so I can walk to everything, including two large supermarkets that are less than two blocks from my house. I easily live without a car. Given that choice, if I felt I needed to get a place inbounds for a good school, then I would much rather be on the Hill for more than a decade and then move if I had to for schools. But between Basis, Latin, Cap City, and some other schools that tend to take a lot of kids in the middle school years, I think OP would be okay.

I live in North Cleveland Park and am also within walking distance of two large supermarkets, two metro stops, a library, post office, some restaurants (granted not the best in the city), and several parks. Not saying there is anything wrong with AdMo (I used to live there myself) or Capitol Hill, but I do object to the notion that once you move WOTP you give up all urban conveniences.

Cleveland Park is MUCH less dense than Adams-Morgan. And much less mixed-use. If I lived WOTP, I'd probably want to live in CP--but it nowhere near compares with the urban living you get in Adams-Morgan. And more broadly: Cleveland Park itself--though less dense than Adams-Morgan--is MUCH more dense than most other areas WOTP. For example, the people I know who live in AU Park and are IB for Janney have to drive everywhere. And that works for them--would not work for me, especially at the prices they pay for the homes.

I think this is not correct, or at least it is not as simple as you put it. I have lived in CCDC for a decade, two parents working FT and two kids. although it is less dense than AM, there is a good mix of apt and more dense housing and more relaxed, suburban type of living. a lot of areas are close to transportation. we spent years without a car, now we have only one (DH works in MD not on metro line). we are less than 2 blocks for a large supermarket, two smaller ones, and an array of stores, a library, community center, a movie theater and two playgrounds. a few blocks away is Friendship Heights. we walk everywhere, including to drop off and pick up our kids at their elementary school. even if I am east of CT avenue, this morning I left my home at 6.59 and got to my office at Farragut Square at 7.20. from April to September I use my bicycle to commute. and we are not the exception, a classmate of one of my kid has two working parents and they do not own a car, walk and use public transportation (they live in our area too). there are areas in CCDC, and AU, that are far from transportation, but it is not necessarily the norm