Lower Middle Class VS Upper Middle Class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The biggest difference I have noticed is that upper middle class people are obsessed with providing what they perceive to be the best for their kids...from organic food to limiting screen time, to Suzuki lessons at age 4, to Montessori preschool, to private and/or the best public schools in high SES locations. They are concerned with their kids going to the best fit/most competitive college than can go to irregardless of cost. They also fret about saving in 529s and what corners they can cut so that they can make private high school an option. They consider international travel to be an important, culturally enriching experience that children should have. They fret over whether or not it is damaging to the psyche for their kid to grow up without a yard, or whether it is justifiable to live in a condo so they can ride the metro to preschool and walk to the farmer's market. They tend to be relentless helicopter parents.

Lower middle class tend to be more laid back about junk food, less concerned about THE BEST schools, and more about living someplace that fits the needs and budget and has the right fit for their families. They tend to not freak out about having the TV on all the time and about too much Dora time. They don't think to scour Greatschools.com to figure out all the options they have and whether nor not the greatschools rating is a 9 or a 10, and just move into a nice, middle class neighborhood and sent their kids to the most convenient neighborhood school. They encourage education, but going in state to get in state tuition, rather than freaking out about getting into ivies or if their kid isn't competitive enough to get into ivies "the best fit school." They frequently don't save in 529s, either because they paid for college and they expect their kids to as well with loans, or because they are just making enough to get by, and there isn't any left over to save for college. Sometimes it is taken as a point of pride that their kids have "skin in the game" and not everything "handed to them." The same is said for weddings and other life expenses that are not within their budget--not helping them financially is a mark of developing self-sufficiency.

Well I'm definitely lower middle class by this definition. Of course, it's just one, but it's probably not wholly inaccurate. I'm not keeping myself awake at night wondering about the 529 or if I can pay for my daughters to go to private high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't see an easy divide in the way you describe, OP. I grew up lower middle class, working class, on the verge of poverty a few times. I've got the cash and education now to be considered upper middle class. I still have some lower middle class traits. I see more difference among people my age who grew up with more money, even though we all now work together, live in similar neighborhoods, have common interests, etc. They had parents who paid for college. They would never have deigned to live in some of the ratty neighborhoods I did when I first moved out on my own. They were taught better money management skills and consequently have better retirements. They value education more than my family ever did. They were taught healthier eating habits than I was. They seem, overall, healthier emotionally and physically, although it's not a huge difference. But noticeable.

It's what I want for my kids. There is a quote from the movie the Descendants. ""You give your children enough money to do something. But not enough to do nothing."

Come hang with me -- similar story here. My parents grew up working class and got themselves to middle class. We were LMC when I was a kid, MMC and UMC as time went on. There are definitely behavioral differences that I notice, and it makes me wonder what my kid will notice when he's older.

Growing up LMC, there was no way I was addressing an adult by first name -- even when they requested it. I still have an internal battle when addressing my parents' friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our household income is 105k. I stay home. Husband is home by 5 or 6 pm. We have five kids 12 and under in a 4 bathroom 2 bathroom ranch. Public schools. We don't invest in 529s and plan to encourage skilled trades or entrepreneurship- if college, community college first. We live way out of the way, have a little ranch on 2.5 acres and a 9 pound dog from the humane society.

We have 3 4 wheelers and a vintage moped that the kids and husband play with in our yard. I have birth at at home. We don't eat organic and don't eat processed foods at home. Mostly lean meats/chicken/salmon and veggies. Minimal starches, no pasta, crackers, breads. The kids are in scouts and all do an activity together once a week. They are in some after school academic clubs. Lots of white space on the calendar.

We shop at goodwill and wear very nice secondhand clothes. We & the kids call all adults by first name unless very elderly and sweet folks, whom we call mr or mrs first name.

We both have bachelors degrees.

We paid off our little house ($320k) and have a house ($320k) our old house in the Midwest also paid off, as a rental.

We don't have cable, do have iPhones and a landline, go out to eat at least once a week, get each kid 6-7 gifts at Christmas and birthdays.

What class am I?

Off topic but how did you pay off $640K of real estate on $105K income? and at what age?
How is that possible?

[Anonymous]

I find it interesting that DCUM focuses so much attention on income when deciding social class when by definition it encompasses much more than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our household income is 105k. I stay home. Husband is home by 5 or 6 pm. We have five kids 12 and under in a 4 bathroom 2 bathroom ranch. Public schools. We don't invest in 529s and plan to encourage skilled trades or entrepreneurship- if college, community college first. We live way out of the way, have a little ranch on 2.5 acres and a 9 pound dog from the humane society.

We have 3 4 wheelers and a vintage moped that the kids and husband play with in our yard. I have birth at at home. We don't eat organic and don't eat processed foods at home. Mostly lean meats/chicken/salmon and veggies. Minimal starches, no pasta, crackers, breads. The kids are in scouts and all do an activity together once a week. They are in some after school academic clubs. Lots of white space on the calendar.

We shop at goodwill and wear very nice secondhand clothes. We & the kids call all adults by first name unless very elderly and sweet folks, whom we call mr or mrs first name.

We both have bachelors degrees.

We paid off our little house ($320k) and have a house ($320k) our old house in the Midwest also paid off, as a rental.

We don't have cable, do have iPhones and a landline, go out to eat at least once a week, get each kid 6-7 gifts at Christmas and birthdays.

What class am I?

Off topic but how did you pay off $640K of real estate on $105K income? and at what age?
How is that possible?

Buying real estate before 2003 yields a huge amount of equity.

[Anonymous]

Anxious social climbers are in a class by themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our household income is 105k. I stay home. Husband is home by 5 or 6 pm. We have five kids 12 and under in a 4 bathroom 2 bathroom ranch. Public schools. We don't invest in 529s and plan to encourage skilled trades or entrepreneurship- if college, community college first. We live way out of the way, have a little ranch on 2.5 acres and a 9 pound dog from the humane society.

We have 3 4 wheelers and a vintage moped that the kids and husband play with in our yard. I have birth at at home. We don't eat organic and don't eat processed foods at home. Mostly lean meats/chicken/salmon and veggies. Minimal starches, no pasta, crackers, breads. The kids are in scouts and all do an activity together once a week. They are in some after school academic clubs. Lots of white space on the calendar.

We shop at goodwill and wear very nice secondhand clothes. We & the kids call all adults by first name unless very elderly and sweet folks, whom we call mr or mrs first name.

We both have bachelors degrees.

We paid off our little house ($320k) and have a house ($320k) our old house in the Midwest also paid off, as a rental.

We don't have cable, do have iPhones and a landline, go out to eat at least once a week, get each kid 6-7 gifts at Christmas and birthdays.

What class am I?

Off topic but how did you pay off $640K of real estate on $105K income? and at what age?
How is that possible?

We live super frugal. I'm 36, he's 41. For 6 years I was making about 100-120k per year but we lives exactly like we do now, which was then below our means (with fewer children.). No inheritances, just living very frugal. We just paid off this current mortgage recently. We have the rental income giving us a few extra thousand per year. We live super frugal in many ways I didn't mention- no Indiv wrapped snacks for the kids, no snacks junk. Our splurges are eating out weekly and date nights. Cars have been paid off. We don't have a ton for Retirement but about 250k between us both. Now with the house paid off we can put more towards that.

[Anonymous]

I recently skimmed the Paul Fussell book. 'Skimmed' because I have a toddler and work full time. I was raised 'High Prole,' according to his scheme, which is a LMC strata.

Granted, Class was written 30 years ago, and high prole is now the entire tech industry, having come into its own. The part that amused me most was where Fussell observed that high proles are really into ideas whereas the true upper class hate ideas because they can only mean trouble. It was all ideas all the time at our house, strange foods, museum memberships, hippy summer camps, foreign films, science fairs, friend that couldn't really speak English because parents were on postdocs from abroad, and early adopting all tech stuff. As children we regularly attended lecture series, the symphony and various avant garde dance troupes. Education was highly valued and you were expected to be superior, which we were because, hey - high prole.

Nonetheless we are definitely prole.

[Anonymous]

http://danielmiessler.com/study/class/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our household income is 105k. I stay home. Husband is home by 5 or 6 pm. We have five kids 12 and under in a 4 bathroom 2 bathroom ranch. Public schools. We don't invest in 529s and plan to encourage skilled trades or entrepreneurship- if college, community college first. We live way out of the way, have a little ranch on 2.5 acres and a 9 pound dog from the humane society.

We have 3 4 wheelers and a vintage moped that the kids and husband play with in our yard. I have birth at at home. We don't eat organic and don't eat processed foods at home. Mostly lean meats/chicken/salmon and veggies. Minimal starches, no pasta, crackers, breads. The kids are in scouts and all do an activity together once a week. They are in some after school academic clubs. Lots of white space on the calendar.

We shop at goodwill and wear very nice secondhand clothes. We & the kids call all adults by first name unless very elderly and sweet folks, whom we call mr or mrs first name.

We both have bachelors degrees.

We paid off our little house ($320k) and have a house ($320k) our old house in the Midwest also paid off, as a rental.

We don't have cable, do have iPhones and a landline, go out to eat at least once a week, get each kid 6-7 gifts at Christmas and birthdays.

What class am I?

I've always considered lower middle class to mean those who work in skilled trades, but are not college graduates. IMO, anyone with a Bachelors degree is not lower middle class, regardless of income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our household income is 105k. I stay home. Husband is home by 5 or 6 pm. We have five kids 12 and under in a 4 bathroom 2 bathroom ranch. Public schools. We don't invest in 529s and plan to encourage skilled trades or entrepreneurship- if college, community college first. We live way out of the way, have a little ranch on 2.5 acres and a 9 pound dog from the humane society.

We have 3 4 wheelers and a vintage moped that the kids and husband play with in our yard. I have birth at at home. We don't eat organic and don't eat processed foods at home. Mostly lean meats/chicken/salmon and veggies. Minimal starches, no pasta, crackers, breads. The kids are in scouts and all do an activity together once a week. They are in some after school academic clubs. Lots of white space on the calendar.

We shop at goodwill and wear very nice secondhand clothes. We & the kids call all adults by first name unless very elderly and sweet folks, whom we call mr or mrs first name.

We both have bachelors degrees.

We paid off our little house ($320k) and have a house ($320k) our old house in the Midwest also paid off, as a rental.

We don't have cable, do have iPhones and a landline, go out to eat at least once a week, get each kid 6-7 gifts at Christmas and birthdays.

What class am I?

Heh, I would call you the "Sensible" class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You again?

Before we begin, you must remember that this is dcum.

Lower middle class is a family of 3-4 making between $150,000 and 250,000. The people who are really struggling to get by.

Middle class is a family making in the realm of $300,000 +/- (but usually plus)

Upper middle class is a family making around $400,000-500,000.

Just so we are clear.

I think that this is ALL WRONG.

Over $500,000 is middle class (otherwise known as "comfortable").
$200,000-$500,000 is lower middle class (otherwise known as "struggling").
$125,000-$200,000 is poor (otherwise known as "poor").
Less than $125,000 is either "trailer park" or "ghetto", depending on your race.

There are also, theoretically, families who are rich -- but since they live in small houses and drive old cars, nobody knows who they are.

There is also the minority view that household income has nothing to do with how wealthy you are, since how wealthy you are is a function of what you can afford, and nobody can afford a middle-class lifestyle in the DC area, therefore nobody is middle class even with a household income of over $500,000 -- but let's ignore them for now.

Guess I'm considered ghetto being an AA single mom with 3 kids living in a DC row house which I bought myself being a GS 14 in the fed gov driving a Toyota Camry. Welp, guess all that's missing is food stamp.

[Anonymous]

PP at 9:25, I am the ALL WRONG poster you quoted, and I feel really bad, and I apologize. I should have made it clear that I was trying to make fun of the ridiculous conventional wisdom according to DCUM, not putting forward my own sincere beliefs. According to DCUM, I myself am trailer park.

[Anonymous]

If you read the Fussell book, you realize it's more about what's on your coffee table, what's on your bookshelves, where you spend your money, etc. It's not about how much money you make.

My DH told me that he used to date a girl that he thought was hot, but when he went to her place, noticed that there were no books on the bookshelves. He said he realized then that it would never work out in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me start this thread by saying I'm a SAHM that's trying to engage my brain. I took an intense interest in sociology while I was in college and, unfortunately, did not pursue a double major. It doesn't change the fact that I am totally fascinated by the BEHAVIORAL differences between the lower middle class and the upper middle class. It would be lovely if people would talk about their personal life experiences and give specific examples of behavioral differences (and differences in values, morals, child rearing, education, manners, etc.) among these two classes. This is NOT a financial debate. I don't care what bracket you are in or what your HHI is. I am simply talking about how you grew up and how you are raising your children and the differences you notice between these two socioeconomic classes.

I'll give a few of my own examples to start off with:

I've noticed that when people in the lower middle class save enough money to renovate their house, purchase a nice car, go on a vacation, etc. they tend to state the price of everything. My friends from the upper middle class simply don't discuss money matters because it is considered impolite and crass.

In my personal experience, people from the lower middle class tend to address adults by their first names (and the adults encourage this). In UMC families, adults are addressed by "Mr. and Mrs. so and so" This could also be a cultural phenomenon, however, not just socioeconomic.

I suggest you find more interesting things to engage your brain with. What are you babbling about now?

Agreed. There is so much waiting to be discovered at Michaels!