Creative Minds - Unified Lottery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see everyone remarking in the "great scores" and great rating, but I'm not sure what measures they're referring to. I don't see any scores as this school is too new.

http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/19691/dcs-most-diverse-charter-schools/

Here are the diversity scores people are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also sad that was your experience - and honestly, a bit baffled that anything about the school would've made you feel that way. I'm an African American parent at CM and the reality is that the school is actually extraordinarily diverse. Indeed, it's comparable to many of the other similar, highly sought after charters (e.g., Inspired Teaching).

What I can say, based on personal experience, is that you absolutely cannot judge the diversity of the school based on who you see attending the open houses (or the parent events, for that matter). Furthermore, the family association president last year was an African American parent, and one of the co-chairs of the family association this year is African-American. I've volunteered at the open houses and led tours for prospective parents. I've honestly never felt a "vibe" that would make AA parents feel unwelcome and I'm pretty certain the principal would be deeply troubled that you would feel that this school was not welcoming to children from all backgrounds. It's one thing to say that you didn't think the school was a good fit for your child because of your child and your family's needs/values -- but it's really another to claim that this is because the school doesn't welcome AA kids.

You are, of course, more than entitled to your feelings...but I just wanted to say that, as a parent of an AA child at CM, I have never felt my child wasn't welcomed and loved at that school.

I'm the parent you're responding to, and I really do appreciate you writing all that. Please note that I didn't generalize about all families, I just wrote what MY experience was and what it felt like for MY family. I also didn't say CM isn't diverse, I'm just agreeing with a PP that marketing does plant a seed of impression.

Since it sounds like you have had a great experience there, and there are other AA families who not only feel welcome but are even in some leadership roles (like Family Association President), maybe you should mention to the school's leadership that it might be worth looking at updating the images on the website? That's how this whole conversation started. And I would reiterate that I've met other AA parents who also checked out CM and chose not to apply, or applied but didn't feel good about their visit. Wish I could be more specific about their experiences but it's just worth noting that it's not just my experience. ANd I don't think any of us were going just on who else was in the room looking at the school. I met some uptight, overly-competitive parents at many open houses, including one fo the schools I fell in love with the most, but that didn't confuse me with the school itself because the school staff and environment was great and so welcoming.

I'm sincerely glad you're having a good experience there, and even though we didn't apply, I'm always happy to know that all families (but yes, I'm particularly sensitive to how things are for AA families) are welcome there and that AA families are having a great experience. You can't have too many families happy with their schools!

Same poster, another thought re: diversity: I haven't looked at the numbers for SY12-13, but I am interested in how CM's diversity (specifically AA) compares to similarly popular charters. Even though you say CM is "extraordinarily diverse", I will say that from my very UNscientific experience (on the playgrounds of Columbia Heights and 16th St NW), I haven't met any AA CM students, yet I've met many Caucausian CM students (and one Latino student). Now that you've said CM is extraordinarily diverse, I'm going to check that out. Not because we will apply, because we still are not, but this raises my curiosity and makes me realize that going into this lottery season, I haven't looked at last year's data to see how the schools compare on this issue. I would never make a definitive statement about CM's diversity or comparable lack of it based on my little playground data, but you saying it's extraordinarily diverse I guess does surprise me and triggers a look, not just at CM but at all the schools we've considered in the last couple of years.

My daughters class is extremely diverse, with Caucasian, Asian, AA, black, and Latino children. I'm sure you aware that the playground is used by three different schools as well as parents from the neighborhood. I'm not sure how you know which kids specifically belong to CM but you can check out the demographic make up on the pCS website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AA CM parent again. I will actually raise the website issue with the principal.

I admit that I personally really liked that the website had children of various ethnicities - that may be because I probably value the idea of a school that values diversity more broadly and the international perspective, than the specific racial demographics in DC. But I can also see how another parent might interpret things differently. I know that the website doesn't currently use pictures of CM students - those are the pics from the original website that was up before the school opened. I assume they had to pay to use each of the pics (thus why there are only a handful) and tried to select a really diverse group (kinda reminds me of Benetton ad). It might be time to consider changing that.

I know this might be hard to do, but I'm wondering if you can give examples of the types of things a school does that makes you feel welcome or unwelcome and that you think are tied to race/ethnicity. I'm not necessarily thinking about just CM, but at all the schools. No need to name schools b/c I don't want this to turn into an attack on various schools. Just trying to get more details to pass along so folks can critically think about these concerns.

Valuing diversity means the website is reflective of the student body. This website is not.I hope they listen and change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see everyone remarking in the "great scores" and great rating, but I'm not sure what measures they're referring to. I don't see any scores as this school is too new.

http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/19691/dcs-most-diverse-charter-schools/

Here are the diversity scores people are talking about.

People refer to the good score academically performing not related to diversity , where can that be gauged?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see everyone remarking in the "great scores" and great rating, but I'm not sure what measures they're referring to. I don't see any scores as this school is too new.

http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/19691/dcs-most-diverse-charter-schools/

Here are the diversity scores people are talking about.

People refer to the good score academically performing not related to diversity , where can that be gauged?

The PCSB does not have that information until a school has been in operation for 3+ years. Anyone who says they are judging on test scores or grades is incorrect. Schools like MV and CM just don't have that info.

However, you can see if they met their goals for the PCSB

http://issuu.com/pcsb/docs/dcpcsb_pmf_2013?e=9803299/5544876

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also sad that was your experience - and honestly, a bit baffled that anything about the school would've made you feel that way. I'm an African American parent at CM and the reality is that the school is actually extraordinarily diverse. Indeed, it's comparable to many of the other similar, highly sought after charters (e.g., Inspired Teaching).

What I can say, based on personal experience, is that you absolutely cannot judge the diversity of the school based on who you see attending the open houses (or the parent events, for that matter). Furthermore, the family association president last year was an African American parent, and one of the co-chairs of the family association this year is African-American. I've volunteered at the open houses and led tours for prospective parents. I've honestly never felt a "vibe" that would make AA parents feel unwelcome and I'm pretty certain the principal would be deeply troubled that you would feel that this school was not welcoming to children from all backgrounds. It's one thing to say that you didn't think the school was a good fit for your child because of your child and your family's needs/values -- but it's really another to claim that this is because the school doesn't welcome AA kids.

You are, of course, more than entitled to your feelings...but I just wanted to say that, as a parent of an AA child at CM, I have never felt my child wasn't welcomed and loved at that school.

I'm the parent you're responding to, and I really do appreciate you writing all that. Please note that I didn't generalize about all families, I just wrote what MY experience was and what it felt like for MY family. I also didn't say CM isn't diverse, I'm just agreeing with a PP that marketing does plant a seed of impression.

Since it sounds like you have had a great experience there, and there are other AA families who not only feel welcome but are even in some leadership roles (like Family Association President), maybe you should mention to the school's leadership that it might be worth looking at updating the images on the website? That's how this whole conversation started. And I would reiterate that I've met other AA parents who also checked out CM and chose not to apply, or applied but didn't feel good about their visit. Wish I could be more specific about their experiences but it's just worth noting that it's not just my experience. ANd I don't think any of us were going just on who else was in the room looking at the school. I met some uptight, overly-competitive parents at many open houses, including one fo the schools I fell in love with the most, but that didn't confuse me with the school itself because the school staff and environment was great and so welcoming.

I'm sincerely glad you're having a good experience there, and even though we didn't apply, I'm always happy to know that all families (but yes, I'm particularly sensitive to how things are for AA families) are welcome there and that AA families are having a great experience. You can't have too many families happy with their schools!

Same poster, another thought re: diversity: I haven't looked at the numbers for SY12-13, but I am interested in how CM's diversity (specifically AA) compares to similarly popular charters. Even though you say CM is "extraordinarily diverse", I will say that from my very UNscientific experience (on the playgrounds of Columbia Heights and 16th St NW), I haven't met any AA CM students, yet I've met many Caucausian CM students (and one Latino student). Now that you've said CM is extraordinarily diverse, I'm going to check that out. Not because we will apply, because we still are not, but this raises my curiosity and makes me realize that going into this lottery season, I haven't looked at last year's data to see how the schools compare on this issue. I would never make a definitive statement about CM's diversity or comparable lack of it based on my little playground data, but you saying it's extraordinarily diverse I guess does surprise me and triggers a look, not just at CM but at all the schools we've considered in the last couple of years.

My daughters class is extremely diverse, with Caucasian, Asian, AA, black, and Latino children. I'm sure you aware that the playground is used by three different schools as well as parents from the neighborhood. I'm not sure how you know which kids specifically belong to CM but you can check out the demographic make up on the pCS website.

I think I said it in my post, I wasn't talking about the CM playground (I don't hang out there at all). I was talking about the 3 Mount Pleasant/Columbia Heights/Petworth area playgrounds we use most frequently, and I know which kids go to CM because their parents tell me! Parents talk about those things at the playgrounds ya know...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also sad that was your experience - and honestly, a bit baffled that anything about the school would've made you feel that way. I'm an African American parent at CM and the reality is that the school is actually extraordinarily diverse. Indeed, it's comparable to many of the other similar, highly sought after charters (e.g., Inspired Teaching).

What I can say, based on personal experience, is that you absolutely cannot judge the diversity of the school based on who you see attending the open houses (or the parent events, for that matter). Furthermore, the family association president last year was an African American parent, and one of the co-chairs of the family association this year is African-American. I've volunteered at the open houses and led tours for prospective parents. I've honestly never felt a "vibe" that would make AA parents feel unwelcome and I'm pretty certain the principal would be deeply troubled that you would feel that this school was not welcoming to children from all backgrounds. It's one thing to say that you didn't think the school was a good fit for your child because of your child and your family's needs/values -- but it's really another to claim that this is because the school doesn't welcome AA kids.

You are, of course, more than entitled to your feelings...but I just wanted to say that, as a parent of an AA child at CM, I have never felt my child wasn't welcomed and loved at that school.

I'm the parent you're responding to, and I really do appreciate you writing all that. Please note that I didn't generalize about all families, I just wrote what MY experience was and what it felt like for MY family. I also didn't say CM isn't diverse, I'm just agreeing with a PP that marketing does plant a seed of impression.

Since it sounds like you have had a great experience there, and there are other AA families who not only feel welcome but are even in some leadership roles (like Family Association President), maybe you should mention to the school's leadership that it might be worth looking at updating the images on the website? That's how this whole conversation started. And I would reiterate that I've met other AA parents who also checked out CM and chose not to apply, or applied but didn't feel good about their visit. Wish I could be more specific about their experiences but it's just worth noting that it's not just my experience. ANd I don't think any of us were going just on who else was in the room looking at the school. I met some uptight, overly-competitive parents at many open houses, including one fo the schools I fell in love with the most, but that didn't confuse me with the school itself because the school staff and environment was great and so welcoming.

I'm sincerely glad you're having a good experience there, and even though we didn't apply, I'm always happy to know that all families (but yes, I'm particularly sensitive to how things are for AA families) are welcome there and that AA families are having a great experience. You can't have too many families happy with their schools!

I share some of your experiences. I'm curious to know which school you fell in love with. Are you there now?

Hi, I'm that PP, I'm sorry that you share some of my experiences, but please know you aren't alone. We are not at the school I mentioned falling in love with in my post, but it's lottery time again so...! All I can say is go to as many open houses as you can, go to the Charter Expo, talk to ALL the staff, of the schools you're interested in and the ones you've never heard of. Just expose yourself to as many schools as possible.

I guess, since we didn't get in, I'll say which school we did fall in love with that I mentioned above: it was Mundo Verde. To give examples of what made us feel so so welcome, aside from the welcomes we got in the classrooms from the room teachers (who managed to both be attendtive to the parents they were talking to while also welcoming people as they came in and engaging the kids that came with their parents), and the answers to our questions in the classrooms about how the school operates and the teachers' approaches, they were scheduled to do 2 "info sessions" for all attendees, an early one and a later one, with a power point etc. The vast vast majority of people went to the 1st one, but we missed it. We went downstairs at the end of the open house for the 2nd one and there were literally only 3 parents there. You could see staff stick their heads in and realize hardly anyone was there, and we were waiting for them to just ask us if we had any questions and call it a night (which I would have understood). No, they did the entire power point, and all the staff who had attended stayed, so staff outnumbered us parents quite a bit! They patiently answerd our questions (a few more parents drifted in because they wanted to hear th einfo again so after awhile it wasn't so small). But I was so impressed. You could tell they (including the Principal) were tired and yet they stayed and answered every question from the tiny number of us who missed it. And we had a lot of questions!

There were many other things about the school we fell in love with (the curriculum and many other aspects, plus what we heard from parents of MV kids), but that was the experience that stood out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see everyone remarking in the "great scores" and great rating, but I'm not sure what measures they're referring to. I don't see any scores as this school is too new.

http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/19691/dcs-most-diverse-charter-schools/

Here are the diversity scores people are talking about.

Thanks for posting this, I do see that CM is #3 on the "most diverse charters" list this links to. It does have the highest % of Caucasian students of any school on the list, but the balance between AA, Caucasian and Latino seems to be why (and that balance is a great thing). All the more reason for them to have their marketing reflect their reality, because that is a strength!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see everyone remarking in the "great scores" and great rating, but I'm not sure what measures they're referring to. I don't see any scores as this school is too new.

http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/19691/dcs-most-diverse-charter-schools/

Here are the diversity scores people are talking about.

People refer to the good score academically performing not related to diversity , where can that be gauged?

The PCSB does not have that information until a school has been in operation for 3+ years. Anyone who says they are judging on test scores or grades is incorrect. Schools like MV and CM just don't have that info.

However, you can see if they met their goals for the PCSB

http://issuu.com/pcsb/docs/dcpcsb_pmf_2013?e=9803299/5544876

Actually the school has to have a 3rd grade. They can get scores in 2nd year (see IT) if they had a 3rd grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see everyone remarking in the "great scores" and great rating, but I'm not sure what measures they're referring to. I don't see any scores as this school is too new.

http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/19691/dcs-most-diverse-charter-schools/

Here are the diversity scores people are talking about.

Thanks for posting this, I do see that CM is #3 on the "most diverse charters" list this links to. It does have the highest % of Caucasian students of any school on the list, but the balance between AA, Caucasian and Latino seems to be why (and that balance is a great thing). All the more reason for them to have their marketing reflect their reality, because that is a strength!

+1 sounds too bad those other moms had a bad experience, but I respect that they followed their gut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see everyone remarking in the "great scores" and great rating, but I'm not sure what measures they're referring to. I don't see any scores as this school is too new.

http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/19691/dcs-most-diverse-charter-schools/

Here are the diversity scores people are talking about.

People refer to the good score academically performing not related to diversity , where can that be gauged?

The PCSB does not have that information until a school has been in operation for 3+ years. Anyone who says they are judging on test scores or grades is incorrect. Schools like MV and CM just don't have that info.

However, you can see if they met their goals for the PCSB

http://issuu.com/pcsb/docs/dcpcsb_pmf_2013?e=9803299/5544876

Actually the school has to have a 3rd grade. They can get scores in 2nd year (see IT) if they had a 3rd grade.

They haven't finished their second year yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Look up "paper bag test"


So the little girl isn't black enough for you? Good to know."

My son is half black and half white. The girl looks like my son. The little girl is beautiful and perfect as she is.

My point is that the vast majority of children in the DC Public School system are black children. In planning a school here, even in the sitting around in the living room with the web designer stage, I would hope that people would be aware of the environment and history and some of the discrimination dark skinned black people still face in this world and this city. I would hope they would aim to reflect the beauty of every kind of child.

Can you provide your stats on the "vast majority of children in DC public schools are AA"

I know from this most recent census data, AA make up 50% of DC population and cacausians 47%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Look up "paper bag test"


So the little girl isn't black enough for you? Good to know."

My son is half black and half white. The girl looks like my son. The little girl is beautiful and perfect as she is.

My point is that the vast majority of children in the DC Public School system are black children. In planning a school here, even in the sitting around in the living room with the web designer stage, I would hope that people would be aware of the environment and history and some of the discrimination dark skinned black people still face in this world and this city. I would hope they would aim to reflect the beauty of every kind of child.

Can you provide your stats on the "vast majority of children in DC public schools are AA"

I know from this most recent census data, AA make up 50% of DC population and cacausians 47%.

From the link mentioned above http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/19691/dcs-most-diverse-charter-schools/

"The overall picture in DC is that charter schools are disproportionately African-American. In a city that is just barely majority black, the percentage of black students in charter schools is 79%. In DCPS schools, the percentage is 69%. Much of the explanation for this is location: Wards 7 and 8, which are about 95% black, have over 40 charter schools between them. On the other hand, Ward 3, which is about 80% white, has none."

I am not a math wiz, but if 44% of kids are in charters, I think that means black students comprise about 73% of our public school system overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Look up "paper bag test"


So the little girl isn't black enough for you? Good to know."

My son is half black and half white. The girl looks like my son. The little girl is beautiful and perfect as she is.

My point is that the vast majority of children in the DC Public School system are black children. In planning a school here, even in the sitting around in the living room with the web designer stage, I would hope that people would be aware of the environment and history and some of the discrimination dark skinned black people still face in this world and this city. I would hope they would aim to reflect the beauty of every kind of child.

Can you provide your stats on the "vast majority of children in DC public schools are AA"

I know from this most recent census data, AA make up 50% of DC population and cacausians 47%.

From the link mentioned above http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/19691/dcs-most-diverse-charter-schools/

"The overall picture in DC is that charter schools are disproportionately African-American. In a city that is just barely majority black, the percentage of black students in charter schools is 79%. In DCPS schools, the percentage is 69%. Much of the explanation for this is location: Wards 7 and 8, which are about 95% black, have over 40 charter schools between them. On the other hand, Ward 3, which is about 80% white, has none."

I am not a math wiz, but if 44% of kids are in charters, I think that means black students comprise about 73% of our public school system overall.

You are not a math wiz.

You can't just add up those numbers like that. You'd need the raw numbers that Dave was working with to recalculate the information for all the schools. It's easy enough to get as DCPS and DCPCS has it on its website. I assure you the numbers don't reflect a "vast majority" of kids are AA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Look up "paper bag test"


So the little girl isn't black enough for you? Good to know."

My son is half black and half white. The girl looks like my son. The little girl is beautiful and perfect as she is.

My point is that the vast majority of children in the DC Public School system are black children. In planning a school here, even in the sitting around in the living room with the web designer stage, I would hope that people would be aware of the environment and history and some of the discrimination dark skinned black people still face in this world and this city. I would hope they would aim to reflect the beauty of every kind of child.

Can you provide your stats on the "vast majority of children in DC public schools are AA"

I know from this most recent census data, AA make up 50% of DC population and cacausians 47%.

From the link mentioned above http://greatergreatereducation.org/post/19691/dcs-most-diverse-charter-schools/

"The overall picture in DC is that charter schools are disproportionately African-American. In a city that is just barely majority black, the percentage of black students in charter schools is 79%. In DCPS schools, the percentage is 69%. Much of the explanation for this is location: Wards 7 and 8, which are about 95% black, have over 40 charter schools between them. On the other hand, Ward 3, which is about 80% white, has none."

I am not a math wiz, but if 44% of kids are in charters, I think that means black students comprise about 73% of our public school system overall.

You are not a math wiz.

You can't just add up those numbers like that. You'd need the raw numbers that Dave was working with to recalculate the information for all the schools. It's easy enough to get as DCPS and DCPCS has it on its website. I assure you the numbers don't reflect a "vast majority" of kids are AA.

1) Who is Dave? Obviously you know something that the rest of us don't, because that article was written by someone named Steven.

2) How you take a system that is 69% (DCPS) and 79% (Charter) African American and come up with something that is not a "vast majority"? Do you not consider 69% OR 79% a vast majority?

3) If it is "easy enough" to get that data from the website, please do so and report back with your crazy different results!