Washington Post article on FCPS' AAP report

[Anonymous]

I find all the conspiracy theories and victim complexes quite disturbing. Schools are plotting to keep children out of AAP? Maybe they just don't think it is the right place for the student. Parents get so wrapped up in their child needing to be in AAP that they can't imagine that maybe they actually don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, but if the school psychologist is the only testing option and you think the psychologist is determined to keep your child out, you might not even try. And each year is a long time in the life of a child.

I agree with this. The school told me that they did not care much for my DS. He was "low average" and would be perfect for their gen ed program. Odd, his test score and behavior scores were above 99% (tops out 99%) He had scored very high on the WISC. He was not a behavior problem. They could not "wait" to get him into their gen ed program. We appealed and went to the center school. Straight As throughout. Published. At Ivy now. The school just did not like /us/him something. That school is typically not very nice to the AAP students we found out later. So glad that we appealed/passed through the program, are out now. I still get a very funny feeling about what if we had gone with their assessment?

Really?????

Yes, really. I felt very alone with this until I found that others had been through the same at my school. I think FCPS are OK, but not all they say. So glad to be OUT. It is not hard to publish today. People do not know that you are young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:True, but if the school psychologist is the only testing option and you think the psychologist is determined to keep your child out, you might not even try. And each year is a long time in the life of a child.

I agree with this. The school told me that they did not care much for my DS. He was "low average" and would be perfect for their gen ed program. Odd, his test score and behavior scores were above 99% (tops out 99%) He had scored very high on the WISC. He was not a behavior problem. They could not "wait" to get him into their gen ed program. We appealed and went to the center school. Straight As throughout. Published. At Ivy now. The school just did not like /us/him something. That school is typically not very nice to the AAP students we found out later. So glad that we appealed/passed through the program, are out now. I still get a very funny feeling about what if we had gone with their assessment?

Really?????

Yes, really. I felt very alone with this until I found that others had been through the same at my school. I think FCPS are OK, but not all they say. So glad to be OUT. It is not hard to publish today. People do not know that you are young.

Again, published what? By whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you about many options for challenge and enrichment, and taking a longer and broader view. But I simply don't believe that WISC testers for AAP appeal should be limited to school psychologists, who were likely already part of the GBRS team and may have preconceived notions about the child.

That would depend on the school. The team listed on my DC1's GBRS consisted of the classroom teacher, the AART and the assistant principal, not the school psychologist. In the AAP office's Parent Information Packet, the school psychologist isn't even listed as someone who might be on the local screening committee except perhaps in the catchall "other specialists as needed". A school psychologist might have preconceived notions about a particular child (and probably would for my DC2), but it most likely wouldn't be from the GBRS.

The school psychologist (aka school counselor) is listed as someone who might be on the local screening committee:

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/faqs/esfaqs.shtml

Who serves on the Local School Advanced Academic Programs Screening Committee?
The Local School Advanced Academic Programs Screening Committee consists of at least three people to include the Advanced Academic Resource Teacher, principal/administrator designee, and classroom teacher(s). A school counselor, reading teacher, media specialist, ESOL teacher, and/or other specialists may also serve on the committee.

[Anonymous]

You are overstating the importance of the testing in 1st and 2nd grade. Students are admitted into AAP every year from 3rd through 8th grade. One low Cogat, NNAT or WISC score will not doom the child for the next six years. Nor will several "low" scores. There are other tests besides the WISC to administer and WISC can be retaken the next year. Even if the child does not get accepted into AAP in ES, they can take all Honors in Middle School and/or take the Honors and AP classes in HS right along with their AAP classmates. Being in GenEd for a few years doesn't doom a child to mediocrity just as admittance to AAP doesn't guarantee future success in life.

What matters is what the child does with what he/she is given. If you think your child is bored in Gen ED but is denied AAP, then enrich his/her life outside of school. School is less than half their waking hours during the school year and 1/4 of the year there is no school. Plenty of time for enrichment.

I totally agree. I think AAP is so hyped and its importance overblown here in FCPS. I have one in AAP and one not. I don't doubt the one who is "just" smart will probably do better in school and in life even without AAP. No one is "doomed" if they don't get into AAP.

Absolutely agree. I also have one current AAP child and two who were Gen Ed but are now in high school and college. Why parents think AAP is the be-all, end-all is beyond me. Once high school starts, no one cares, asks, or otherwise thinks about who was in AAP and who wasn't. Honors and AP classes are open to all. AAP in the elementary or middle school years has no bearing on where a student goes to college. Do parents actually think their child will not be accepted to a good school if they weren't an AAP kid? Ridiculous. High school is whatever the student makes of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are overstating the importance of the testing in 1st and 2nd grade. Students are admitted into AAP every year from 3rd through 8th grade. One low Cogat, NNAT or WISC score will not doom the child for the next six years. Nor will several "low" scores. There are other tests besides the WISC to administer and WISC can be retaken the next year. Even if the child does not get accepted into AAP in ES, they can take all Honors in Middle School and/or take the Honors and AP classes in HS right along with their AAP classmates. Being in GenEd for a few years doesn't doom a child to mediocrity just as admittance to AAP doesn't guarantee future success in life.

What matters is what the child does with what he/she is given. If you think your child is bored in Gen ED but is denied AAP, then enrich his/her life outside of school. School is less than half their waking hours during the school year and 1/4 of the year there is no school. Plenty of time for enrichment.

I totally agree. I think AAP is so hyped and its importance overblown here in FCPS. I have one in AAP and one not. I don't doubt the one who is "just" smart will probably do better in school and in life even without AAP. No one is "doomed" if they don't get into AAP.

Absolutely agree. I also have one current AAP child and two who were Gen Ed but are now in high school and college. Why parents think AAP is the be-all, end-all is beyond me. Once high school starts, no one cares, asks, or otherwise thinks about who was in AAP and who wasn't. Honors and AP classes are open to all. AAP in the elementary or middle school years has no bearing on where a student goes to college. Do parents actually think their child will not be accepted to a good school if they weren't an AAP kid? Ridiculous. High school is whatever the student makes of it.

depends I guess on what you mean by a good school. Almost all the TJ kids come from one of the AAP centers. I'm still wavering wheher DC should even apply to go there (next year), but a lot of this is "keeping up with the Joneses" so to speak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are overstating the importance of the testing in 1st and 2nd grade. Students are admitted into AAP every year from 3rd through 8th grade. One low Cogat, NNAT or WISC score will not doom the child for the next six years. Nor will several "low" scores. There are other tests besides the WISC to administer and WISC can be retaken the next year. Even if the child does not get accepted into AAP in ES, they can take all Honors in Middle School and/or take the Honors and AP classes in HS right along with their AAP classmates. Being in GenEd for a few years doesn't doom a child to mediocrity just as admittance to AAP doesn't guarantee future success in life.

What matters is what the child does with what he/she is given. If you think your child is bored in Gen ED but is denied AAP, then enrich his/her life outside of school. School is less than half their waking hours during the school year and 1/4 of the year there is no school. Plenty of time for enrichment.

I totally agree. I think AAP is so hyped and its importance overblown here in FCPS. I have one in AAP and one not. I don't doubt the one who is "just" smart will probably do better in school and in life even without AAP. No one is "doomed" if they don't get into AAP.

Absolutely agree. I also have one current AAP child and two who were Gen Ed but are now in high school and college. Why parents think AAP is the be-all, end-all is beyond me. Once high school starts, no one cares, asks, or otherwise thinks about who was in AAP and who wasn't. Honors and AP classes are open to all. AAP in the elementary or middle school years has no bearing on where a student goes to college. Do parents actually think their child will not be accepted to a good school if they weren't an AAP kid? Ridiculous. High school is whatever the student makes of it.

depends I guess on what you mean by a good school. Almost all the TJ kids come from one of the AAP centers. I'm still wavering wheher DC should even apply to go there (next year), but a lot of this is "keeping up with the Joneses" so to speak.

If you think "almost all" is 70 out of 450, then you have a point. The problem is that your assumption is incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are overstating the importance of the testing in 1st and 2nd grade. Students are admitted into AAP every year from 3rd through 8th grade. One low Cogat, NNAT or WISC score will not doom the child for the next six years. Nor will several "low" scores. There are other tests besides the WISC to administer and WISC can be retaken the next year. Even if the child does not get accepted into AAP in ES, they can take all Honors in Middle School and/or take the Honors and AP classes in HS right along with their AAP classmates. Being in GenEd for a few years doesn't doom a child to mediocrity just as admittance to AAP doesn't guarantee future success in life.

What matters is what the child does with what he/she is given. If you think your child is bored in Gen ED but is denied AAP, then enrich his/her life outside of school. School is less than half their waking hours during the school year and 1/4 of the year there is no school. Plenty of time for enrichment.

I totally agree. I think AAP is so hyped and its importance overblown here in FCPS. I have one in AAP and one not. I don't doubt the one who is "just" smart will probably do better in school and in life even without AAP. No one is "doomed" if they don't get into AAP.

Absolutely agree. I also have one current AAP child and two who were Gen Ed but are now in high school and college. Why parents think AAP is the be-all, end-all is beyond me. Once high school starts, no one cares, asks, or otherwise thinks about who was in AAP and who wasn't. Honors and AP classes are open to all. AAP in the elementary or middle school years has no bearing on where a student goes to college. Do parents actually think their child will not be accepted to a good school if they weren't an AAP kid? Ridiculous. High school is whatever the student makes of it.

depends I guess on what you mean by a good school. Almost all the TJ kids come from one of the AAP centers. I'm still wavering wheher DC should even apply to go there (next year), but a lot of this is "keeping up with the Joneses" so to speak.

If you think "almost all" is 70 out of 450, then you have a point. The problem is that your assumption is incorrect.

70? What the hell are you talking about. Rachel Carson MS had that many alone.

[Anonymous]

IMO, the reason we parents go out of our way and spend money on a WISC or other testing to get into AAP is because today's FCPS student population demographic is VERY different from years past. I truly enjoy all the kids in my DCs class; however, I don't think my DC will be pushed above and beyond the curriculum in a class where there is such a grave difference in educational level. I am NOT saying that my child is BETTER than anyone. My DC is smart and had the scores and the WISC to back it up. We WISC’d, as DC was not found to be eligible in the 1st round, even though the scores were in-the-pool. We WISC’d, as we know that in the AAP environment, DC is more than likely, but not guaranteed, to be pushed to go above DCs comfort zone. We have previous experience in AAP and have witnessed 1st hand certain AAP teachers going way beyond the standards – this is something that we like, very much. Not all AAP teachers teach beyond the state mandated curriculum – not many are GT endorsed, either, and both are a shame. I will also say that, perhaps, some of the Gen. Ed teachers go beyond; however, I believe that this would be a difficult task in a class where the levels educational level are so varying. Now, if FCPS were to re-implement a model similar to that of the 70s and 80s, then Gen. Ed would be an option for a lot of kids who are currently in AAP. Until then, I think most parents will push for AAP – knowing that their child has a better chance, overall, in many aspects, in an AAP class as compared to the current Gen. Ed class for the aforementioned reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are overstating the importance of the testing in 1st and 2nd grade. Students are admitted into AAP every year from 3rd through 8th grade. One low Cogat, NNAT or WISC score will not doom the child for the next six years. Nor will several "low" scores. There are other tests besides the WISC to administer and WISC can be retaken the next year. Even if the child does not get accepted into AAP in ES, they can take all Honors in Middle School and/or take the Honors and AP classes in HS right along with their AAP classmates. Being in GenEd for a few years doesn't doom a child to mediocrity just as admittance to AAP doesn't guarantee future success in life.

What matters is what the child does with what he/she is given. If you think your child is bored in Gen ED but is denied AAP, then enrich his/her life outside of school. School is less than half their waking hours during the school year and 1/4 of the year there is no school. Plenty of time for enrichment.

I totally agree. I think AAP is so hyped and its importance overblown here in FCPS. I have one in AAP and one not. I don't doubt the one who is "just" smart will probably do better in school and in life even without AAP. No one is "doomed" if they don't get into AAP.

Absolutely agree. I also have one current AAP child and two who were Gen Ed but are now in high school and college. Why parents think AAP is the be-all, end-all is beyond me. Once high school starts, no one cares, asks, or otherwise thinks about who was in AAP and who wasn't. Honors and AP classes are open to all. AAP in the elementary or middle school years has no bearing on where a student goes to college. Do parents actually think their child will not be accepted to a good school if they weren't an AAP kid? Ridiculous. High school is whatever the student makes of it.

depends I guess on what you mean by a good school. Almost all the TJ kids come from one of the AAP centers. I'm still wavering wheher DC should even apply to go there (next year), but a lot of this is "keeping up with the Joneses" so to speak.

If you think "almost all" is 70 out of 450, then you have a point. The problem is that your assumption is incorrect.

Newsflash! TJ is not the only great high school out there. If your child is extremely talented at the STEM curriculum, then sure, TJ would probably be a good place for them. If, however, their talents are in other subjects (humanities, languages), there are plenty of high schools that would probably serve them much better. Believe it or not, TJ isn't the goal for many parents in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IMO, the reason we parents go out of our way and spend money on a WISC or other testing to get into AAP is because today's FCPS student population demographic is VERY different from years past. I truly enjoy all the kids in my DCs class; however, I don't think my DC will be pushed above and beyond the curriculum in a class where there is such a grave difference in educational level. I am NOT saying that my child is BETTER than anyone. My DC is smart and had the scores and the WISC to back it up. We WISC’d, as DC was not found to be eligible in the 1st round, even though the scores were in-the-pool. We WISC’d, as we know that in the AAP environment, DC is more than likely, but not guaranteed, to be pushed to go above DCs comfort zone. We have previous experience in AAP and have witnessed 1st hand certain AAP teachers going way beyond the standards – this is something that we like, very much. Not all AAP teachers teach beyond the state mandated curriculum – not many are GT endorsed, either, and both are a shame. I will also say that, perhaps, some of the Gen. Ed teachers go beyond; however, I believe that this would be a difficult task in a class where the levels educational level are so varying. Now, if FCPS were to re-implement a model similar to that of the 70s and 80s, then Gen. Ed would be an option for a lot of kids who are currently in AAP. Until then, I think most parents will push for AAP – knowing that their child has a better chance, overall, in many aspects, in an AAP class as compared to the current Gen. Ed class for the aforementioned reasons.

A better chance at what? Living a fulfilling, successful life? Nonsense! When are people around here going to clue in to the fact -- that in all but the most extreme cases, what type of program you're in in grade school DOES NOT MATTER!

[Anonymous]

IMO this article does a much better job of telling it like it is than that laudatory WP article on the AAP report:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/time-to-rethink-fairfaxs-gifted-program/2013/06/21/bb5baf58-d9e6-11e2-9df4-895344c13c30_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are overstating the importance of the testing in 1st and 2nd grade. Students are admitted into AAP every year from 3rd through 8th grade. One low Cogat, NNAT or WISC score will not doom the child for the next six years. Nor will several "low" scores. There are other tests besides the WISC to administer and WISC can be retaken the next year. Even if the child does not get accepted into AAP in ES, they can take all Honors in Middle School and/or take the Honors and AP classes in HS right along with their AAP classmates. Being in GenEd for a few years doesn't doom a child to mediocrity just as admittance to AAP doesn't guarantee future success in life.

What matters is what the child does with what he/she is given. If you think your child is bored in Gen ED but is denied AAP, then enrich his/her life outside of school. School is less than half their waking hours during the school year and 1/4 of the year there is no school. Plenty of time for enrichment.

I totally agree. I think AAP is so hyped and its importance overblown here in FCPS. I have one in AAP and one not. I don't doubt the one who is "just" smart will probably do better in school and in life even without AAP. No one is "doomed" if they don't get into AAP.

Absolutely agree. I also have one current AAP child and two who were Gen Ed but are now in high school and college. Why parents think AAP is the be-all, end-all is beyond me. Once high school starts, no one cares, asks, or otherwise thinks about who was in AAP and who wasn't. Honors and AP classes are open to all. AAP in the elementary or middle school years has no bearing on where a student goes to college. Do parents actually think their child will not be accepted to a good school if they weren't an AAP kid? Ridiculous. High school is whatever the student makes of it.

depends I guess on what you mean by a good school. Almost all the TJ kids come from one of the AAP centers. I'm still wavering wheher DC should even apply to go there (next year), but a lot of this is "keeping up with the Joneses" so to speak.

If you think "almost all" is 70 out of 450, then you have a point. The problem is that your assumption is incorrect.

70? What the hell are you talking about. Rachel Carson MS had that many alone.

If you read what you wrote, it implies that only one AAP center sends the most students to TJ. "Almost all the TJ kids come from one of the AAP centers." I think you meant to say: Almost all of the TJ kids come from AAP center schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IMO this article does a much better job of telling it like it is than that laudatory WP article on the AAP report:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/time-to-rethink-fairfaxs-gifted-program/2013/06/21/bb5baf58-d9e6-11e2-9df4-895344c13c30_story.html

That is not an article -- it is an editorial without many facts.

The AAP report and subsequent work session on July 15 is far more informative. (Plus the work session provided much more data.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO this article does a much better job of telling it like it is than that laudatory WP article on the AAP report:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/time-to-rethink-fairfaxs-gifted-program/2013/06/21/bb5baf58-d9e6-11e2-9df4-895344c13c30_story.html

That is not an article -- it is an editorial without many facts.

The AAP report and subsequent work session on July 15 is far more informative. (Plus the work session provided much more data.)

Well, one would hope the report provided more data given how much the county paid for it. Ditto the July 15 work session which provided data that people have been asking to see for awhile.

Granted, the WaPo article I referenced is an opinion piece, but I wouldn't be quite so dismissive. It tells it like it is and is full of facts for those who are receptive (read: don't need their kids in AAP to prove their worth). It also says what a lot of people know to be the truth about the scam AAP has become.