Given the rigor of Basis, was it ever expected to be for every kid in the District?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS spend 30k per pupil almost on par with Sidwell while the charters get 13-15k per pupil. They'll get better value paying everone's private school tuition and getting rid of DCPS altogether.

Where does this $30K per student come from? I have never heard numbers that high, do you have a source?

[Anonymous]

Not PP, but Google reveals the following from a conservative policy News Blog, The Heritage Foundation earlier this year

"You would think $30,000 a year would get you a decent education. For just a few thousand more, you could cover the cost of Harvard’s yearly undergraduate tuition or send your child to the prestigious Sidwell Friends School, which the Obama daughters attend."

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/25/d-c-public-schools-spend-almost-30000-per-student/


The Washington post had a similar article back in 2008

The Real Cost Of Public Schools

"We're often told that public schools are underfunded. In the District, the spending figure cited most commonly is $8,322 per child, but total spending is close to $25,000 per child -- on par with tuition at Sidwell Friends, the private school Chelsea Clinton attended in the 1990s."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/04/AR2008040402921.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. If there is not more to this story then what was printed in the WP (and that’s a Big If) then it shouldn’t be taboo to say/think that the school was designed at the outset to be a place for very hard working and/or advanced kids, in a race/class/sex neutral way. Why tip-toe around?

I think it's because that's pretty much the basis of the whole charter debate - instead of investing resources into neighborhood schools in order to bring these types of specialized programs to those schools, is it better to pull the resources out and just create specialized schools? When you put the resources into neighborhood schools, there's the idea that a rising tide lifts all boats; when you pull resources out and create specialized schools, it can seem like a quick fix that will help the few who are able to gain access to the school, but ultimately won't help create a stronger school system.

I put in the hours at our local school to make it work. We were successful because we had people either with money or the ability to do fundraisers for large sums of numbers. First off, a parent shouldn't have to work this hard to make a school successful. Of course parents should be involved but to the level that is required in some DC neighborhoods no.

The system is so broke and that's why charters are so important here.

Amen.


Again, the problem is not money when DC spends more per pupil than any other district!!! The problem is incompetence!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. If there is not more to this story then what was printed in the WP (and that’s a Big If) then it shouldn’t be taboo to say/think that the school was designed at the outset to be a place for very hard working and/or advanced kids, in a race/class/sex neutral way. Why tip-toe around?

I think it's because that's pretty much the basis of the whole charter debate - instead of investing resources into neighborhood schools in order to bring these types of specialized programs to those schools, is it better to pull the resources out and just create specialized schools? When you put the resources into neighborhood schools, there's the idea that a rising tide lifts all boats; when you pull resources out and create specialized schools, it can seem like a quick fix that will help the few who are able to gain access to the school, but ultimately won't help create a stronger school system.

I put in the hours at our local school to make it work. We were successful because we had people either with money or the ability to do fundraisers for large sums of numbers. First off, a parent shouldn't have to work this hard to make a school successful. Of course parents should be involved but to the level that is required in some DC neighborhoods no.

The system is so broke and that's why charters are so important here.

Amen.


Again, the problem is not money when DC spends more per pupil than any other district!!! The problem is incompetence!

The problem is poverty. If it weren't poverty, we would see the middle and upper income DCPS schools struggling just as much as the low income schools, and we don't. Sure, there is more than can be done, but the root of the problem is not incompetence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The problem is poverty. If it weren't poverty, we would see the middle and upper income DCPS schools struggling just as much as the low income schools, and we don't. Sure, there is more than can be done, but the root of the problem is not incompetence.

Poverty has an impact but I say that lousy curricula choices that do not emphasize practice nor mastery of the 4 math operations, fractions percents, and decimals and that do not teach phonics adequately or content adequately have a greater impact!! Then, disruptive students are not dealt with properly and are allowed to disrupt to the detriment of all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The problem is poverty. If it weren't poverty, we would see the middle and upper income DCPS schools struggling just as much as the low income schools, and we don't. Sure, there is more than can be done, but the root of the problem is not incompetence.

Poverty has an impact but I say that lousy curricula choices that do not emphasize practice nor mastery of the 4 math operations, fractions percents, and decimals and that do not teach phonics adequately or content adequately have a greater impact!! Then, disruptive students are not dealt with properly and are allowed to disrupt to the detriment of all.

Everyone of those skills, phonics and the math skills mentioned are taught before 5th grade so if the student comes to Basis without having mastered them prior to 5th, they need remediation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Everyone of those skills, phonics and the math skills mentioned are taught before 5th grade so if the student comes to Basis without having mastered them prior to 5th, they need remediation.

Obviously, many kids in DC are not mastering these things based on the DCAS scores and other testing. The fact that such large numbers of students are failing tells me that lousy curricula choices are being made as they frequently are all over the country. Remediation of such lack of math and reading skills should be done long before 5th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. If there is not more to this story then what was printed in the WP (and that’s a Big If) then it shouldn’t be taboo to say/think that the school was designed at the outset to be a place for very hard working and/or advanced kids, in a race/class/sex neutral way. Why tip-toe around?

I think it's because that's pretty much the basis of the whole charter debate - instead of investing resources into neighborhood schools in order to bring these types of specialized programs to those schools, is it better to pull the resources out and just create specialized schools? When you put the resources into neighborhood schools, there's the idea that a rising tide lifts all boats; when you pull resources out and create specialized schools, it can seem like a quick fix that will help the few who are able to gain access to the school, but ultimately won't help create a stronger school system.

I put in the hours at our local school to make it work. We were successful because we had people either with money or the ability to do fundraisers for large sums of numbers. First off, a parent shouldn't have to work this hard to make a school successful. Of course parents should be involved but to the level that is required in some DC neighborhoods no.

The system is so broke and that's why charters are so important here.

Amen.


Again, the problem is not money when DC spends more per pupil than any other district!!! The problem is incompetence!

The problem is poverty. If it weren't poverty, we would see the middle and upper income DCPS schools struggling just as much as the low income schools, and we don't. Sure, there is more than can be done, but the root of the problem is not incompetence.

So funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Everyone of those skills, phonics and the math skills mentioned are taught before 5th grade so if the student comes to Basis without having mastered them prior to 5th, they need remediation.

Obviously, many kids in DC are not mastering these things based on the DCAS scores and other testing. The fact that such large numbers of students are failing tells me that lousy curricula choices are being made as they frequently are all over the country. Remediation of such lack of math and reading skills should be done long before 5th grade.

Social promotion, too. So little Johnny didn't learn how to count. Oh well, promote him on. Now little Johnny doesn't learn how to add and subtract. Oh well, promote him on. Now little Johnny doesn't learn how to multiply and divide. Oh well, promote him on. And next thing, you have little Johnny in 5th grade already with virtually no math skills. It compounds from one grade to the next. It needs to be addressed and remediated FAR earlier, the schools are doing little Johnny such a major disservice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Everyone of those skills, phonics and the math skills mentioned are taught before 5th grade so if the student comes to Basis without having mastered them prior to 5th, they need remediation.

Obviously, many kids in DC are not mastering these things based on the DCAS scores and other testing. The fact that such large numbers of students are failing tells me that lousy curricula choices are being made as they frequently are all over the country. Remediation of such lack of math and reading skills should be done long before 5th grade.

Social promotion, too. So little Johnny didn't learn how to count. Oh well, promote him on. Now little Johnny doesn't learn how to add and subtract. Oh well, promote him on. Now little Johnny doesn't learn how to multiply and divide. Oh well, promote him on. And next thing, you have little Johnny in 5th grade already with virtually no math skills. It compounds from one grade to the next. It needs to be addressed and remediated FAR earlier, the schools are doing little Johnny such a major disservice.

I know you think this should be easy and obvious, but if it were, then this would not be a problem in the first place.

The research tells us that the only thing less successful than social promotion - is grade retention.

You will have to apply your clearly extensive pedagogical skills a little more "outside the box."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. If there is not more to this story then what was printed in the WP (and that’s a Big If) then it shouldn’t be taboo to say/think that the school was designed at the outset to be a place for very hard working and/or advanced kids, in a race/class/sex neutral way. Why tip-toe around?

I think it's because that's pretty much the basis of the whole charter debate - instead of investing resources into neighborhood schools in order to bring these types of specialized programs to those schools, is it better to pull the resources out and just create specialized schools? When you put the resources into neighborhood schools, there's the idea that a rising tide lifts all boats; when you pull resources out and create specialized schools, it can seem like a quick fix that will help the few who are able to gain access to the school, but ultimately won't help create a stronger school system.

I put in the hours at our local school to make it work. We were successful because we had people either with money or the ability to do fundraisers for large sums of numbers. First off, a parent shouldn't have to work this hard to make a school successful. Of course parents should be involved but to the level that is required in some DC neighborhoods no.

The system is so broke and that's why charters are so important here.

Again, the problem is not money when DC spends more per pupil than any other district!!! The problem is incompetence!

The per pupil spending is a function of a) highly concentrated poverty; and b) the fact that the District has to perform the roles of both the state and local school district.

A is particularly relevant, since the diagnosis of educational disability tracks with poverty. Very often, a learning disability is a symptom of poverty. And those disabilities are usually the most disruptive.

Anyone who argues otherwise either has an agenda, or has no clue what they're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The problem is poverty. If it weren't poverty, we would see the middle and upper income DCPS schools struggling just as much as the low income schools, and we don't. Sure, there is more than can be done, but the root of the problem is not incompetence.

Poverty has an impact but I say that lousy curricula choices that do not emphasize practice nor mastery of the 4 math operations, fractions percents, and decimals and that do not teach phonics adequately or content adequately have a greater impact!! Then, disruptive students are not dealt with properly and are allowed to disrupt to the detriment of all.

I always get a mordant chuckle out of the folks who--in the face of a hundred years of evidence, and in a school district where the childhood poverty rate is 30%--desperately cling to the idea that, if only DCPS would transition to some magical curriculum that only they are privvy to, we'd suddenly have the same educational outcomes as Loudon County.

Fucking idiocy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The problem is poverty. If it weren't poverty, we would see the middle and upper income DCPS schools struggling just as much as the low income schools, and we don't. Sure, there is more than can be done, but the root of the problem is not incompetence.

Poverty has an impact but I say that lousy curricula choices that do not emphasize practice nor mastery of the 4 math operations, fractions percents, and decimals and that do not teach phonics adequately or content adequately have a greater impact!! Then, disruptive students are not dealt with properly and are allowed to disrupt to the detriment of all.

Hey genius, why do you think there are so many disruptive students in DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Thanks 1053, you are correct.

But if BASIS, like Latin, can attract a cohort that is low poverty, they will declare success. Funny that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. If there is not more to this story then what was printed in the WP (and that’s a Big If) then it shouldn’t be taboo to say/think that the school was designed at the outset to be a place for very hard working and/or advanced kids, in a race/class/sex neutral way. Why tip-toe around?

I think it's because that's pretty much the basis of the whole charter debate - instead of investing resources into neighborhood schools in order to bring these types of specialized programs to those schools, is it better to pull the resources out and just create specialized schools? When you put the resources into neighborhood schools, there's the idea that a rising tide lifts all boats; when you pull resources out and create specialized schools, it can seem like a quick fix that will help the few who are able to gain access to the school, but ultimately won't help create a stronger school system.

I put in the hours at our local school to make it work. We were successful because we had people either with money or the ability to do fundraisers for large sums of numbers. First off, a parent shouldn't have to work this hard to make a school successful. Of course parents should be involved but to the level that is required in some DC neighborhoods no.

The system is so broke and that's why charters are so important here.

Again, the problem is not money when DC spends more per pupil than any other district!!! The problem is incompetence!

The per pupil spending is a function of a) highly concentrated poverty; and b) the fact that the District has to perform the roles of both the state and local school district.

A is particularly relevant, since the diagnosis of educational disability tracks with poverty. Very often, a learning disability is a symptom of poverty. And those disabilities are usually the most disruptive.

Anyone who argues otherwise either has an agenda, or has no clue what they're talking about.

Yet, DC spends an extra $10,000 per student for poor students in DCPS, than it does for poor students in charter schools, and for consistently lesser results. A lot of us have a clue about that, it's in the paper(s) on a regular basis. (No pun intended.)