Another Brent question

[Anonymous]

There's room for a range of views at Brent, so don't get hot under the collar folks. IB families paying an arm and a leg in property taxes on expensive homes are probably entitled to theirs. If you're OOB, try not to judge why don't you.

Nobody wants Brent to become almost entirely white, but I certainly can't blame those who want it become higher-SES overall when it's true that DCPS does very little to provide challenge for advanced learners. The sad fact is that, if the National Assessment on Education Progress (NAEP) data collected in the District can be believed, white kids score "advanced" on 4th and 8th grade standardized tests at around 30 times the rate AA kids do for both reading and math. It's much tougher to cheat on NAEP tests than the DC-CAS.

The gap isn't as large as it was a few years ago, but remains a chasm in a system attracting few high-SES AA families. And some of you are blaming IB parents for getting annoyed when lots of OOB kids who struggle are shipped in and plonked in the same classes as IB kids who rarely do? Either you believe in neighborhood schools as a concept, or you don't. Boston has virtually done away with them in the three decades since forced busing made a mess of that public school system.

I hate it when PPs argue if you don't like the way DCPS works, go private, when parents inclined to vote with their feet are the ones most needed for schools to succeed: high-SES, organized, savvy about fundraising, the quality of teaching and curriculum etc. with the time, perspective and motivation to push hard for change. Not only should you encourage these parents to stay, you should have the vision to treasure them, even if you disagree with some of their views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's room for a range of views at Brent, so don't get hot under the collar folks. IB families paying an arm and a leg in property taxes on expensive homes are probably entitled to theirs. If you're OOB, try not to judge why don't you.

Nobody wants Brent to become almost entirely white, but I certainly can't blame those who want it become higher-SES overall when it's true that DCPS does very little to provide challenge for advanced learners. The sad fact is that, if the National Assessment on Education Progress (NAEP) data collected in the District can be believed, white kids score "advanced" on 4th and 8th grade standardized tests at around 30 times the rate AA kids do for both reading and math. It's much tougher to cheat on NAEP tests than the DC-CAS.

The gap isn't as large as it was a few years ago, but remains a chasm in a system attracting few high-SES AA families. And some of you are blaming IB parents for getting annoyed when lots of OOB kids who struggle are shipped in and plonked in the same classes as IB kids who rarely do? Either you believe in neighborhood schools as a concept, or you don't. Boston has virtually done away with them in the three decades since forced busing made a mess of that public school system.

I hate it when PPs argue if you don't like the way DCPS works, go private, when parents inclined to vote with their feet are the ones most needed for schools to succeed: high-SES, organized, savvy about fundraising, the quality of teaching and curriculum etc. with the time, perspective and motivation to push hard for change. Not only should you encourage these parents to stay, you should have the vision to treasure them, even if you disagree with some of their views.

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I've been struggling with what has been posted here. As a parent of a child of color at Brent, it scares me to hear that people are glad it isn't as diverse. How is that attitude going to impact my child? Okay to have in class but you won't be included in friendships outside of class. Are we really blaming the out of bound parents who for a long time (since the Cluster pulled almost all white families from the other neighborhood schools 20 years ago) were the ones willing to go to Brent. Interestingly the scores from when Brent was mostly out of bounds off the Hill folks was not as low as some of you think.



As for neighborhood schools, if the system realy believed in them there wouldn't be this extensive out of bounds process.

I treasure people who value provinding a good edcuation for students and who are committed, I don't value the idea that to achieve quality education you need to get all the poor and people of color out of your school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sad fact is that, if the National Assessment on Education Progress (NAEP) data collected in the District can be believed, white kids score "advanced" on 4th and 8th grade standardized tests at around 30 times the rate AA kids do for both reading and math.

Given the data you've provided, couldn't one argue that DC public schools are doing a marvelous job at challenging and educating its white students? Or at least that the white students are reaching their potential/unharmed by status quo of DCPS schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AA Brent parent, high-SES, who thinks that 17:08 is right on. We left the Cluster because bleeding hearts there weren't serious about ensuring that bright kids were challenged. The Cluster has had SINCE THE EARLY 90s to provide challenge but never gets around to it, explaining the high rate of IB attrition in the upper grades at Watkins, and between Watkins and SH.

If you're going to "fight" anything, fight the boneheaded DCPS/ultra liberal view that differentiated learning in the classroom is all that advanced learners need in diverse schools. It's a false dogma which still fuels white/high-SES flight. Don't fight parents who candidly reject mushy-minded thinking on the issue, of whatever race, wherever they may stand on the political, and socioeconomic, spectrum.

Again, not fighting the idea of providing challenges for kids. Fighting the idea that the only way to achieve that is to get low SES and African American students out of Brent. Shockingly the big push for the pull out in the upper grades for advanced math and reading was the more diverse upper grade families.

Had the PP said this, you might have a point. But they didn't. They were referring to the low SES kids that come from OOB. Your transparent attempt to make it about race is disingenuous and undermines whatever point you're trying to make. And it's one of the reasons we can't have an honest conversation about things like SES, race, and public policy. The second someone speaks honestly, the cheap attacks of racism come flying fast and furious. It's an effective way of shutting down the debate, but pretty unsavory.

"Some of us are quietly glad to see the school become less "diverse" and more in-bounds in a city that won't support gifted and talented elementary programs. We can't see how our kids would be challenged in the upper grades any other way. "

THat is the line that I was responding to. You want to talk honestly. As a city we have failed all of our chldren. I'm not comforatble saying that lets get rid of out of bounds kids so it can just be us rich people who can afford to buy in the school district. Then all our problems will be solved. We'll have gifted programs and our children will succeed.

Should there be programs for kids who are advanced? Absolutely, as I said my kid is benefitting from that idea at Brent right now. But at the end of the day, we are a public school and we have to serve all children, whatever their race, SES staus and ability. If you want to only have High SES kids in your school, shell out the money and go private.

Pretty clear "diversity" in regards to Hill schools (and DCPS in general) is being used ironically. The folks who fret about "losing diversity" are talking about upper grades where almost every student is lower SES and OOB. So, yes, we need to lose some of that diversity.

at the end of the day, we are a public school and we have to serve all children, whatever their race, SES staus and ability.

Actually, at the end of the day, you are a neighborhood public school with in-boundary preference, and you have to serve all in-boundary children whatever their race, SES status and ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1221, I figured it was tinged with sarcasm, but I couldn't help myself.

These figures are among the most galling when you consider the "fire the bad teacher" strategy that's been driving school reform in DC since 2007.

If the teachers are so awful, why is it that my middle class white kid is learning? And learning just fine, thank you very much, even when enrolled at a Title I school.

If it was all about the teachers, wouldn't the scores of the white kids be awful too?

I don't think anyone wants to pursue a strategy where the only tool is "fire the bad teacher". What I object to is the folks who argue that there are no bad teachers, and that teacher job-security must take precedence over all other considerations. Do you have a problem with firing bad teachers? Or is your point that bad teachers don't exist?

[Anonymous]

"Pretty clear "diversity" in regards to Hill schools (and DCPS in general) is being used ironically. The folks who fret about "losing diversity" are talking about upper grades where almost every student is lower SES and OOB. So, yes, we need to lose some of that diversity.

at the end of the day, we are a public school and we have to serve all children, whatever their race, SES staus and ability.

Actually, at the end of the day, you are a neighborhood public school with in-boundary preference, and you have to serve all in-boundary children whatever their race, SES status and ability. "

Well you'll be glad my son is gone, but sorry you will have to put up with my daughter and other son for a number of years. Hope that doesn't ruin your Brent experience to be around my black out of bounds kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a child of color at Brent, it scares me to hear that people are glad it isn't as diverse. How is that attitude going to impact my child?

Again, the use of "diverse" was clearly ironic. Given that a few years ago, "diversity" meant 100% AA, it *is* a good thing it "isn't as diverse" (What? 70% AA?)

And it will impact your child in pretty much uniformly positive ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Pretty clear "diversity" in regards to Hill schools (and DCPS in general) is being used ironically. The folks who fret about "losing diversity" are talking about upper grades where almost every student is lower SES and OOB. So, yes, we need to lose some of that diversity.

at the end of the day, we are a public school and we have to serve all children, whatever their race, SES staus and ability.

Actually, at the end of the day, you are a neighborhood public school with in-boundary preference, and you have to serve all in-boundary children whatever their race, SES status and ability. "

Well you'll be glad my son is gone, but sorry you will have to put up with my daughter and other son for a number of years. Hope that doesn't ruin your Brent experience to be around my black out of bounds kids.

Yes, because remember: If anyone disagrees with you, they must hate black people. (No matter how many times they patiently explain that the real issue is that SES diversity is critical to having a successful school.) That kind of attitude must be really hard to carry around all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Pretty clear "diversity" in regards to Hill schools (and DCPS in general) is being used ironically. The folks who fret about "losing diversity" are talking about upper grades where almost every student is lower SES and OOB. So, yes, we need to lose some of that diversity.

at the end of the day, we are a public school and we have to serve all children, whatever their race, SES staus and ability.

Actually, at the end of the day, you are a neighborhood public school with in-boundary preference, and you have to serve all in-boundary children whatever their race, SES status and ability. "

Well you'll be glad my son is gone, but sorry you will have to put up with my daughter and other son for a number of years. Hope that doesn't ruin your Brent experience to be around my black out of bounds kids.

Yes, because remember: If anyone disagrees with you, they must hate black people. (No matter how many times they patiently explain that the real issue is that SES diversity is critical to having a successful school.) That kind of attitude must be really hard to carry around all the time.

What I've read is that people want the lower SES kids completely out of their school. That's not SES diversity, that's all the rich kids going to one school. What is hard to deal with is that my children are going to school with some idiots who think because they have a higher SES than others their kids are better.

[Anonymous]

What I've read is that people want the lower SES kids completely out of their school.

You may have read that. It would be helpful if you could quote it so the rest of us could read it, too. Because I haven't seen that anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a child of color at Brent, it scares me to hear that people are glad it isn't as diverse. How is that attitude going to impact my child?

Again, the use of "diverse" was clearly ironic. Given that a few years ago, "diversity" meant 100% AA, it *is* a good thing it "isn't as diverse" (What? 70% AA?)

And it will impact your child in pretty much uniformly positive ways.

The lower grades are almost 90% white which is not diverse so lets call a spade a spade, no 100% AA, out of bounds or low SES is not diverse, but neither is 90% white, high SES.

My kids actually have benefitted from the work that the parents (gasp) in the more racially and SES diverse upper grades did to get Brent to where it is now. The same parents who consistently still volunteer.

[Anonymous]

We have truly fallen through the rabbit hole where Brent parents state "we need to lose some of that diversity" with respect to OOB and lower SES. Let us never forget, OOB students are the ones that kept Brent open when no one in the neighborhood would send their kids there-- when people that lived in Brent area just left for the suburbs as soon as they had kids. If it weren't for OOB students, Brent would have closed long ago.

I am an in-boundry Brent parent and I am shocked by this sudden turn. So much so that I really doubt this poster is really a Brent parent. How can you not treasure the friendships our kids are developing with kids from all over the city from all economic backgrounds? YEs, Brent needs to serve its neighborhood, but as long as there is room, we should welcome and treasure the gifts of those that come to Brent OOB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have truly fallen through the rabbit hole where Brent parents state "we need to lose some of that diversity" with respect to OOB and lower SES. Let us never forget, OOB students are the ones that kept Brent open when no one in the neighborhood would send their kids there-- when people that lived in Brent area just left for the suburbs as soon as they had kids. If it weren't for OOB students, Brent would have closed long ago.

I am an in-boundry Brent parent and I am shocked by this sudden turn. So much so that I really doubt this poster is really a Brent parent. How can you not treasure the friendships our kids are developing with kids from all over the city from all economic backgrounds? YEs, Brent needs to serve its neighborhood, but as long as there is room, we should welcome and treasure the gifts of those that come to Brent OOB.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have truly fallen through the rabbit hole where Brent parents state "we need to lose some of that diversity" with respect to OOB and lower SES...YEs, Brent needs to serve its neighborhood, but as long as there is room, we should welcome and treasure the gifts of those that come to Brent OOB.

You're not saying anything anyone else isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have truly fallen through the rabbit hole where Brent parents state "we need to lose some of that diversity" with respect to OOB and lower SES...YEs, Brent needs to serve its neighborhood, but as long as there is room, we should welcome and treasure the gifts of those that come to Brent OOB.

You're not saying anything anyone else isn't.

Soemone said "we need to some of that diversity" WRT OOB and low SES. i emphatically disagree. I don't need to and in fact would be worse off if we did.