Another Brent question

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love how every white, high SES parent thinks their child is gifted.

+1 . Let's not forget that Brent does not actually have a GT program. Some PPs just assume their economic status and/or skin color conveys some sort of innate abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AA Brent parent, high-SES, who thinks that 17:08 is right on. We left the Cluster because bleeding hearts there weren't serious about ensuring that bright kids were challenged. The Cluster has had SINCE THE EARLY 90s to provide challenge but never gets around to it, explaining the high rate of IB attrition in the upper grades at Watkins, and between Watkins and SH.

If you're going to "fight" anything, fight the boneheaded DCPS/ultra liberal view that differentiated learning in the classroom is all that advanced learners need in diverse schools. It's a false dogma which still fuels white/high-SES flight. Don't fight parents who candidly reject mushy-minded thinking on the issue, of whatever race, wherever they may stand on the political, and socioeconomic, spectrum.

Again, not fighting the idea of providing challenges for kids. Fighting the idea that the only way to achieve that is to get low SES and African American students out of Brent. Shockingly the big push for the pull out in the upper grades for advanced math and reading was the more diverse upper grade families.

Had the PP said this, you might have a point. But they didn't. They were referring to the low SES kids that come from OOB. Your transparent attempt to make it about race is disingenuous and undermines whatever point you're trying to make. And it's one of the reasons we can't have an honest conversation about things like SES, race, and public policy. The second someone speaks honestly, the cheap attacks of racism come flying fast and furious. It's an effective way of shutting down the debate, but pretty unsavory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how every white, high SES parent thinks their child is gifted.

+1 . Let's not forget that Brent does not actually have a GT program. Some PPs just assume their economic status and/or skin color conveys some sort of innate abilities.

The greatest determinant of academic success is the level of educational attainment of the mother. And that maps quite closely with SES. So, no, while SES doesn't "convey some sort of *innate* abilities", there is a high correlation between SES and *ability* period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how every white, high SES parent thinks their child is gifted.

+1 . Let's not forget that Brent does not actually have a GT program. Some PPs just assume their economic status and/or skin color conveys some sort of innate abilities.

DC attracts gifted and talented white people (and scares away ignorant white people). Not all white people are like this. It's a DC thing.

[Anonymous]

Over the decades we were constantly hearing on how the cluster schools are so far in advance with their theories on how to educate DCPS children. It evolved all of sudden that the cluster schools became their own hybrid school district. You would hear the plight or progress of West of the park schools, East of the River schools, Cluster Schools and Charter Schools. So my reference was more reflective of the conversations.

See, neighborhood schools will always lose out to boundary and feeder schools. Capitol Hill schools are just what they are a cluster of schools from surrounding neighborhoods. When you start to look at the boundaries and feeder patterns; that is when it becomes a NIMBY fortress and it is easier to keep the undesirable out

As for those who go on to attend Eastern, that was dispeled a long-time ago. The principal then was Ralph Neal didn't want anything to do with the Cluster. He respected it but he had his own agenda for Eastern, which made it a premier school at one time.

The white with bright statement is priceless. I am telling you put it on a tee-shirt and it will sell out in minutes.

[Anonymous]

Brent has many children who can do more rigorous coursework than what is provided by DCPS.

Instead of being in a school system that has systems and policies in place to support those children, parents are left to navigate it themselves. As a result, cries of racism, classism etc. abound.

Children who are still working to perform at grade level are not blame. Let's put the accountability where it should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AA Brent parent, high-SES, who thinks that 17:08 is right on. We left the Cluster because bleeding hearts there weren't serious about ensuring that bright kids were challenged. The Cluster has had SINCE THE EARLY 90s to provide challenge but never gets around to it, explaining the high rate of IB attrition in the upper grades at Watkins, and between Watkins and SH.

If you're going to "fight" anything, fight the boneheaded DCPS/ultra liberal view that differentiated learning in the classroom is all that advanced learners need in diverse schools. It's a false dogma which still fuels white/high-SES flight. Don't fight parents who candidly reject mushy-minded thinking on the issue, of whatever race, wherever they may stand on the political, and socioeconomic, spectrum.

Again, not fighting the idea of providing challenges for kids. Fighting the idea that the only way to achieve that is to get low SES and African American students out of Brent. Shockingly the big push for the pull out in the upper grades for advanced math and reading was the more diverse upper grade families.

Had the PP said this, you might have a point. But they didn't. They were referring to the low SES kids that come from OOB. Your transparent attempt to make it about race is disingenuous and undermines whatever point you're trying to make. And it's one of the reasons we can't have an honest conversation about things like SES, race, and public policy. The second someone speaks honestly, the cheap attacks of racism come flying fast and furious. It's an effective way of shutting down the debate, but pretty unsavory.

"Some of us are quietly glad to see the school become less "diverse" and more in-bounds in a city that won't support gifted and talented elementary programs. We can't see how our kids would be challenged in the upper grades any other way. "

THat is the line that I was responding to. You want to talk honestly. As a city we have failed all of our chldren. I'm not comforatble saying that lets get rid of out of bounds kids so it can just be us rich people who can afford to buy in the school district. Then all our problems will be solved. We'll have gifted programs and our children will succeed.

Should there be programs for kids who are advanced? Absolutely, as I said my kid is benefitting from that idea at Brent right now. But at the end of the day, we are a public school and we have to serve all children, whatever their race, SES staus and ability. If you want to only have High SES kids in your school, shell out the money and go private.

[Anonymous]

To back up comment at 11:27, see http://nationsreportcard.gov/math_2011/gr4_state.asp?subtab_id=Tab_4&tab_id=tab1#chart.

NAEP test of 4th grade white kids.

Average nationwide to get "above proficient" = 9%-- Ave nationwide to score below basic = 9%.

for MD-- 18% above proficient/ 6% below basic

for VA-- 11% above proficient/ 8% below basic

In DC-- 33% above proficient / 1% below basic.

According to these stats, the very best place for a white kid in america to get a public school education is in -- DC.

AGain, white people that live in DC are-- not your typical white people.

Also see:

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/statecomparisons/withinyear.aspx?usrSelections=0%2cMAT%2c1%2c0%2cwithin%2c0%2c0

The above chart indicates that the best scores for AA students are in Hawaii and in New Hampshire.

[Anonymous]

"According to these stats, the very best place for a white kid in america to get a public school education is in -- DC."

No, what these indicate that less than 1% of white children in DC live in poverty.

The greatest predictor of performance on these tests is:

1. SES
2. Mother's education level

There are almost no poor white kids in DC (unlike neighboring states) hence the great score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
NAEP test of 4th grade white kids.

Average nationwide to get "above proficient" = 9%-- Ave nationwide to score below basic = 9%.

for MD-- 18% above proficient/ 6% below basic

for VA-- 11% above proficient/ 8% below basic

In DC-- 33% above proficient / 1% below basic.

According to these stats, the very best place for a white kid in america to get a public school education is in -- DC.

AGain, white people that live in DC are-- not your typical white people.

Many also aren't products of the public school system

[Anonymous]

Many also aren't products of the public school system

The test results I put above are limited to kids in the public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"According to these stats, the very best place for a white kid in america to get a public school education is in -- DC."

No, what these indicate that less than 1% of white children in DC live in poverty.

The greatest predictor of performance on these tests is:

1. SES
2. Mother's education level

There are almost no poor white kids in DC (unlike neighboring states) hence the great score.

You are absolutely right-- I was being sarcastic, but I guess that tone doesn't convey to well online.

[Anonymous]

Sorry-- I meant "too well"

[Anonymous]

1221, I figured it was tinged with sarcasm, but I couldn't help myself.

These figures are among the most galling when you consider the "fire the bad teacher" strategy that's been driving school reform in DC since 2007.

If the teachers are so awful, why is it that my middle class white kid is learning? And learning just fine, thank you very much, even when enrolled at a Title I school.

If it was all about the teachers, wouldn't the scores of the white kids be awful too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1221, I figured it was tinged with sarcasm, but I couldn't help myself.

These figures are among the most galling when you consider the "fire the bad teacher" strategy that's been driving school reform in DC since 2007.

If the teachers are so awful, why is it that my middle class white kid is learning? And learning just fine, thank you very much, even when enrolled at a Title I school.

If it was all about the teachers, wouldn't the scores of the white kids be awful too?

I agree.

But, I think it is understandable that people want to really believe that there is something can be done. People hear that a child's academic destiny is pretty much established at the point of conception and of course that galls them. It is just too fatalistic for us Americans. We believe we can control our destiny-- if the kids in our schools aren't performing, then something can and must be done.

I'm as guilty of this type of thinking as anyone. When I heard that Michelle Rhee was able to tremendously increase the scores of her students in Baltimore, I swallowed the lie hook-line-and-sinker. I really believed it.

Signed,
Sucker