Can Kumon overcome Everyday Math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTW, it does not matter whether someone has a math background or not, the experts have spoken, EDM stinks.

http://www.nychold.com/

Hmm. That's not what studies reviewed by educators at the US Dept of Ed say ...

http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/interventionreport.aspx?sid=166
http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/interventionreport.aspx?sid=587

OK. Aye.
ANY curriculum will have a positive effect. That is one of those no brainer questions. If Susie takes a gymnastics (any class) class, she will know MORE gymnastics in the end, thus a POSITIVE effect. If Susie takes a GOOD gymnastic class, she will know more gymnastics than if she takes a poor gymnastics class. Did you notice that the extent of evidence was small positive?
We want good curricula that will teach more!

You are mistaken. Several of the programs reviewed show zero effectiveness -- or even negative effectiveness. You should run your own report screen at http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/findwhatworks.aspx -- I cannot figure out how to print my results page here. I chose the following parameters: Outcome Domains = Math; Population = General Ed; Extent of Evidence = Small + Med-Large; Program Type = Curriculum. Everyday Math ranked #8 out of 27 programs using those parameters. It had a +11 score, while the highest-rated program has +23, and the lowest was -6. All but one of those top-rated programs show "low" Extent of Evidence, because very few studies meet the research requirements set by Dept of Ed.

I'm sure there are plenty of good math curricula out there, and maybe some better than EDM. But to say simply that "According to the experts EDM stinks" is just plain false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here whose kids use EDM in FCPS. Thankfully, our kids aren't allowed much if any calculator use with EDM - I do completely disagree with that part of it. Their teachers do not follow it lock step but they do seemed trained in it. It would be nice if they could spend a bit more time on each section but I believe that has more to do with state standards covering way too much ground in the early years.

Here's what I believe is the main reason US kids are behind in math. Our elementary teachers are not math majors and do not just teach math exclusively as a subject. Most other nations pick teachers from the cream of the academic crop and have them specialize in math if that is what they are going to teach. I would love to see elementary school teachers have a degree in their subject field that they taught (eg. only Eng. ed majors teach English, science majors teach science etc.) supplemented with some educational theory. I guess having 4 teachers for the 4 core subjects would be unrealistic in smaller schools but it seems like subject expertise would be best for the kids. However, school has really never been about what's best for the kids, has it?

not for me until sixth grade or middle school (7th grade)

we did have homework everyday since 1st grade. my overseas niece in 3rd grade (not in AAP, there's no such thing there) has 1.5 to 2 hrs of homework every night, excluding reading (which is/was not emphasized, for some reason).

i don't know how many hours of math instruction/homework combine my 2nd grader gets from school, but i'd not be surprised if it's less than half of what i got when i was in 2nd grade. i think the real "gap" might be in quantity than quality.

btw i was terrible at math facts and reasoning. but in my graduate class in NYC i was a top math guy and better than all US-educated classmates. so i guess those hours paid off finally.

i'm actually going to ask his math teacher tonight re: the hours...

[Anonymous]

I wonder if we are comparing the top 20-30% of India/China with 90-100% of US students in these tests.

I also suspect the US has the largest special education industry in the world ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if we are comparing the top 20-30% of India/China with 90-100% of US students in these tests.

dunno, but like i said i was terrible at math growing up - below avg terrible, but i easily scored 780 on my GMAT math with minimum preparation; while my graduate class friends who might not have scored top 20-30% in GMAT math, there's just no way they're below avg.

[Anonymous]

meant to say GRE, not GMAT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if we are comparing the top 20-30% of India/China with 90-100% of US students in these tests.

I also suspect the US has the largest special education industry in the world ...

The challenge is that even if it is their top 20% there are a billion of them each equaling 200 million versus our 400 million people. We just can't compete if we are not at the top of our game. Many countries figure this out- Finland, Japan, Scandinavian countries but thus far our country will not face the myriad of issues and work it will take to get there.

[Anonymous]

After 4 years of EDM, my daughter was floundering in math. Six weeks of the dreaded "drill and kill" and, for the first time" she learned that she actually could do math and was actually good at it. Now she loves math and excels in the subject. Everyday math sucks big time.

[Anonymous]

Someone asked specifically what we don't like about EDM. Here's my quick summary. (1) The rapidly spiraling curriculum means that many students are still slightly confused when it is time to "move on" to another topic. A good number don't get the topic when it is revisited again because, again, there isn't enough time. Meanwhile students who got it the first time around are bored and starting to misbehave. (2) Lack of differentiation. Some people claim that differentiation is inherent in EDM because so many of the games are open-ended, but the reality is that the students are grouped in heterogeneous groups and the kids who are ready for more advanced math have to play the game at the level of the others. There is also little support for students who need extra help or extra time to understand a concept. And there is no differentiated homework at all. (3) Multiple methods to do multiplication and division, in particular, leave students without enough practice to achieve mastery. (4) Emphasis on non-traditional algorithms for basic arithmetic operations. This creates a very poor handoff to higher level math in, for example, high school when the students absolutely must know traditional multiplication and long division. (5) Lightweight homework. I'm not a fan of a lot of homework, but the EDM homework worksheets always took my son less time to do than it took to find a pencil. There's more, but fortunately the nightmare of EDM is 3 years behind us now so the details have started to fade from my memory.

[Anonymous]

Everyday Math is a DISASTER if your child has special needs rooted in any kind of language disorder.

I would literally slap the person who wrote that hunk of EDM garbage if I ever came in contact with him/her/them.

[Anonymous]

It's hard to say kumon can overcome Everyday Math or not. I think the appropriate program is the most important. My daughter used kumon for a while. It indeed helps, but it's a pity that DD can't bear the heavy work. Then we switched to beestar math. It's teacher recommended, full of all real life word problems, challenging stuff to help her thinking. DD loves to compete on it with other kids from a lot of other states.
Lisa

[Anonymous]

My first grade child's homework sheet asked this question:

Write the numbers 7 - 10 on the lines below. Then circle the number you wrote best.

I started looking into Kumon the next day.

I've taught EDM and prefer other programs, but I don't understand this particular piece of critcism. Practicing number writing is a pretty universal piece of first grade curriculum, and trying something and then going back to evaluate your is a pretty stamdard technique for developing handwriting.

[Anonymous]

My son is getting EDM in the early grades. I had read the same criticisms. But he's really doing well understanding math at a conceptual level. It's a private school and the teachers are well trained in it. I have heard teacher training makes a huge difference. I don't know what it's like for middle school grades yet. But I've been pleasantly surprised so far.

[Anonymous]

I always wonder how many of these math teachers actually know any math? Like, how many teachers know calculus, for example? You can't teach what you don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My first grade child's homework sheet asked this question:

Write the numbers 7 - 10 on the lines below. Then circle the number you wrote best.

I started looking into Kumon the next day.

I've taught EDM and prefer other programs, but I don't understand this particular piece of critcism. Practicing number writing is a pretty universal piece of first grade curriculum, and trying something and then going back to evaluate your is a pretty stamdard technique for developing handwriting.

Universal - where? In the US? No need to practice number writing separately. The more problems you work on, the better your numbers are going to look. This is a ridiculous question and a waste of time.

[Anonymous]

What schools are utilizing Everyday Math? Are Fairfax and Montgomery County Schools using this math curriculum? I thought MD adopted the Common Core Curriculum.