HHI to send 2 kids to private w/o FA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is crazy. Our HHI is substantially more than $500K, and we do not have polo ponies, an apartment in Manhatan or a house in the Caribbean. I also like that people crunch numbers without accounting for taxes or that people might have more to do with income than pay a nanny or tuition. It's like people are so blinded by the $500K number that they can't think rationally.

You seem blinded by the fact that there are people living *comfortably" on much less that send 2 kids to private school. Maybe we need to define the word "comfortable". I guess comfortable means clothes on your back, in a neighborhood not crime-ridden, food on your table, heat in your house in the winter, and having a job that supports this *comfortable* level. Me, personally, I find bare feet in the winter uncomfortable. I find slight hunger uncomfortable. (not life threading, not dangerous, just uncomfortable) How do you define *comfortable*?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is where you've gone wrong, PP. You have no idea what deamnds the kind of jobs that typically pay enough to get you $500K or more frequently demand of the people who have them. Often, these are families who need substantial help (nanny, housekeeper, yard service, dog walker, and so on), and two - actually three, so the nanny has one - cars, to live their lives. Why? Because at any moment, one or both parents would be completely unable to make aftercare pick up. One or both parents may be called upon to work on an emergency project that requires working all weekend. Oops - there goes the laundry and the housecleaning. One or both parents want to maximize their free time with their children on the weekends, since weeknights are taken up with homework and parent work. And the parents need to be able to travel separately (one is heading to the airport while the other heads to the office) and to leave a safe car at home for the nanny to pick up the kids from school. Time is the most precious commodity for these parents. Rather than calling them out of touch with reality, why don't you recognize that their reality is different from yours? If the OP asked, "What does a family with reasonable jobs who has lots of time to work on the yard, do laundry, clean the whole house and pick up the kids and take them to activities without impacting the parents' respective work days need to make to be comfortable putting two kids through private school" the answers may well have been different. The OP didn't ask that question, so people are responding with their realities. If the OP would like to clarify her question, she is of course welcome to do so.

The OP asked a generic question. She didn't ask what people with exotic jobs need. Go look at her post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is where you've gone wrong, PP. You have no idea what deamnds the kind of jobs that typically pay enough to get you $500K or more frequently demand of the people who have them. Often, these are families who need substantial help (nanny, housekeeper, yard service, dog walker, and so on), and two - actually three, so the nanny has one - cars, to live their lives. Why? Because at any moment, one or both parents would be completely unable to make aftercare pick up. One or both parents may be called upon to work on an emergency project that requires working all weekend. Oops - there goes the laundry and the housecleaning. One or both parents want to maximize their free time with their children on the weekends, since weeknights are taken up with homework and parent work. And the parents need to be able to travel separately (one is heading to the airport while the other heads to the office) and to leave a safe car at home for the nanny to pick up the kids from school. Time is the most precious commodity for these parents. Rather than calling them out of touch with reality, why don't you recognize that their reality is different from yours? If the OP asked, "What does a family with reasonable jobs who has lots of time to work on the yard, do laundry, clean the whole house and pick up the kids and take them to activities without impacting the parents' respective work days need to make to be comfortable putting two kids through private school" the answers may well have been different. The OP didn't ask that question, so people are responding with their realities. If the OP would like to clarify her question, she is of course welcome to do so.

The OP asked a generic question. She didn't ask what people with exotic jobs need. Go look at her post.

Indeed. Most of the people who said you *need* 500k didn't say "if you have an exotic job. much less if you have a normal job". If somebody asks a generic question, one doesn't normally assume they want the answer appropriate for extremely unusual personal circumstances.

[Anonymous]

I don't think your job needs to be "exotic" to be demanding. In our family with a lobbyist and a lawyer, neither of which I'd classify as exotic in this area, we definitely couldn't manage without two cars and a nanny due to the inconsistent hours we work.

I also don't think a family of 4 living in an 1800 square foot house is "comfortable." But that's just me- a typical American. I certainly don't need or want a McMansion, but we need about 2400 square feet to not feel cramped. And because we sometimes work long hours, it's important to us to live close in rather than add a commute to our long day. No way could you swing this on less than a $4000 mortgage unless you bought 10+ years ago.

The bottom line is that "comfortable" is subjective. OP never defined what comfortable means to her. The HHI one needs to send 2 kids to private and still live comfortably is about $100,000 ($60,000 after taxes) + the amount you consider "comfortable."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The bottom line is that "comfortable" is subjective. OP never defined what comfortable means to her. The HHI one needs to send 2 kids to private and still live comfortably is about $100,000 ($60,000 after taxes) + the amount you consider "comfortable."

Ain't it the truth!

[Anonymous]

People say funny things on anonymous message boards. I assume the person who said they need 500-60=450k to be "comfortable" would never, for example, say this to their nanny. Or to the teachers at their private school. Or to the person who cuts their hair. They may truly believe this, and it may even be true for them. They may even say it when in groups of people making a similar income. But they would never say it out loud in a public place. I guess, when somebody says this, they are talking to themselves, forgetting that an anonymous message board is not like ones private thoughts, and that people of all sorts are actually reading this and judging you.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the "judging" part. Surely it is not a mystery to people on lower incomes, including the ones who are perfectly comfortable on those incomes, that many people on higher incomes spend large chunks of their time working so that they can live differently. These no moral virtue to having a lower income. If you disagree, let us know how several billion people around the globe should judge you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the "judging" part. Surely it is not a mystery to people on lower incomes, including the ones who are perfectly comfortable on those incomes, that many people on higher incomes spend large chunks of their time working so that they can live differently. These no moral virtue to having a lower income. If you disagree, let us know how several billion people around the globe should judge you.

"Blessed are the poor."

Even if you disagree with this Biblical statement, there is some moral complexity to raising your children in a world of privilege. Private school, nannies, housekeepers, gardeners, three cars, etc.--anyone who keeps up with the news, travels, and talks to people from a variety of backgrounds understands that these are, indeed, "luxuries" by any rational standard, even if you feel that these are "necessities" to maintaining your lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

But if you believe this why stop there. Most families on the globe would find any of the lifestyles described on this thread as "comfortable" as in fact luxurious "by any rational standard." In a world where a good chunk of the population don't have access to clean water or any medical care it is a bit odd to be discussing whether a HHI $500K is luxurious and a HHI of $300K is "comfortable." Accept that anything over $20K is luxurious and enjoy your great good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But if you believe this why stop there. Most families on the globe would find any of the lifestyles described on this thread as "comfortable" as in fact luxurious "by any rational standard." In a world where a good chunk of the population don't have access to clean water or any medical care it is a bit odd to be discussing whether a HHI $500K is luxurious and a HHI of $300K is "comfortable." Accept that anything over $20K is luxurious and enjoy your great good luck.

Amen. Most of us on this thread are very very lucky. We have computers. Most of us are beyond "comfortable" by any reasonable definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the "judging" part. Surely it is not a mystery to people on lower incomes, including the ones who are perfectly comfortable on those incomes, that many people on higher incomes spend large chunks of their time working so that they can live differently. These no moral virtue to having a lower income. If you disagree, let us know how several billion people around the globe should judge you.

"judging" only if you say "I can not possibly be comfortable on less than $440000" to their face. They know you live like that but, in order to allow them to "keep face", you shouldn't mention this in front of them. Or why not just say "I could not possibly survive being as ugly as you" to ugly people? We need to maintain these fictions in polite society so that we don't hate each other. "Judging" you as being very immature, inconsiderate, and self absorbed, since you are saying to our faces that we can not possibly be "comfortable", since our incomes are no where near $440000. But, I bet you would never actually say that to the face of somebody on a lower income (or, at least, I hope you would not!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the "judging" part. Surely it is not a mystery to people on lower incomes, including the ones who are perfectly comfortable on those incomes, that many people on higher incomes spend large chunks of their time working so that they can live differently. These no moral virtue to having a lower income. If you disagree, let us know how several billion people around the globe should judge you.

"judging" only if you say "I can not possibly be comfortable on less than $440000" to their face. They know you live like that but, in order to allow them to "keep face", you shouldn't mention this in front of them. Or why not just say "I could not possibly survive being as ugly as you" to ugly people? We need to maintain these fictions in polite society so that we don't hate each other. "Judging" you as being very immature, inconsiderate, and self absorbed, since you are saying to our faces that we can not possibly be "comfortable", since our incomes are no where near $440000. But, I bet you would never actually say that to the face of somebody on a lower income (or, at least, I hope you would not!)

You may have me confused with someone else, since I have not discussed my HHI or what I think comfortable on this thread. But still I don't see why you are so judgemental. In real life people don't compare HHIs with strangers or ask strangers to candidly rate their lifestyle for "comfort level." On this site they seem to want to. In that case they shouldn't get upset when they get a candid answer.

[Anonymous]

I'm the 480k poster. I say it is not an extravagant life because we don't have what many people would consider extravagant -- nice cars, clothes, designer bags, etc. It does NOT mean that I am not extremely, extremely grateful for SECURITY and CONVENIENCE the money gives us. And that is just what it is -- security and convenience. I never worry about financial things and I never hesitate to do something that will save me time or effort, like hire a handyman or yard person. That's security and convenience.
I have no designer things and no fancy cars. My clothes are Ann Taylor and J Crew and Banana, kids clothes are target and gap aside from the occasional splurge for christmas outfits, etc. As I said, we keep a full time nanny despite having both kids in school, and that is the one "luxury" I keep. We have a nice house that is close-in, but it's no mcmansion.
Truth be told, and I would never admit this publicly, when I see an expensive car drive out of the parking lot of our known-to-be-really-crappy local public school, I think those people's priorities are f'ed up. yes, I know I know, you never know people's stories, maybe the school is a great fit for them, etc, but I would rather be in my 2003 toyota at the expensive school than vice versa.

[Anonymous]

Oh my - talk about judgmental! When I see the fancy car, or whatever, pull out of public - - I think - wow - wish we could still do that - miss those days. Public is only bad when it doesn't work for your child. Lovely kids and great families attend public. Our kids NEED private - they need the "focus on the whole child" because what you pay for at private is individual attention aimed to bring out the best in your child, while also allowing time to "grow" into skills that are developmentally staggered. The glass half full vs. glass half empty is what you pay for in private. As for 500 K - I don't know how long you plan to work, but last time I checked with my Economist friends - all your depleted savings are likely to stay that way for years to come. Last time I checked, if you want to retire on $100 K a year, you still need a couple million saved up if you plan to live past 80. The anger reflected on this thread is ridiculous. Live your life as you want, 30K-35K per year, K-12, is a luxury. The schools do not set their prices assuming a middle class base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I also don't think a family of 4 living in an 1800 square foot house is "comfortable." But that's just me- a typical American. I certainly don't need or want a McMansion, but we need about 2400 square feet to not feel cramped. And because we sometimes work long hours, it's important to us to live close in rather than add a commute to our long day. No way could you swing this on less than a $4000 mortgage unless you bought 10+ years ago.
quote]

We bought a close-in (N Arlington) 2800 sq foot TH last year with 20% down and our PITI is less than $4000 on a seven-year ARM (and before the ARMs are evil police come out, based on our math and certain relocation in 7-9 years, the ARM we have was financially better for us, e.g. lower total cost at the time we are likely to sell our home). So you can swing it...there were smaller size homes in our metro-walkable close-in neighborhoods for even less...