HHI to send 2 kids to private w/o FA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's what we do on $150K:

Mortgage: $1500 (close in, bought in 1994)
Health: $800
Tuition for 1 kid: $3K
Utilities: $600
Retirement: $1300
College Savings $400
Food/Sundries/charity: $4K
"Cushion": 0

We just meet expenses every month, or even go in the red $1K or so, but that includes funding TSP to the max and some college 529. We have substantial savings, retirement and investments from pre-private school life ~$800K that is our cushion and we dip in occasionally, which is what we planned to do. We are still cutting back in a number of areas which I hope will keep us from dipping. Tax refund, work bonuses etc. provide the cushion.

Another $150k family with one kid in private. Our numbers are much different but we still manage one child in private school very comfortably. Still have nice vacations and drive nice cars. Save plenty for college and retirement, but we had our child later in life so we know we are lucky to have had a head start on such savings. To add a second child, we could drop our vacations or add 50k to the earnings pretax. I cannot even imagine how I would be living with $300k, $400k, or $500k a year!!! Woo Hoo!!! Trying hard not to be jealous here ... but seriously, it really is all about priorities and there is no one right answer. Seems silly to seek advice outside of your own budget and expectations and priorities.

[Anonymous]

If you were paying over $2,000 a week for household help and other outsourcing, you would pretty quickly figure out why you need $500K. And don't forget extracurricular activities and summer camps for two kids. The budgets being posted leave a lot of these things out.

In short, OP, there is no single answer. The answer is different for every family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you were paying over $2,000 a week for household help and other outsourcing, you would pretty quickly figure out why you need $500K. And don't forget extracurricular activities and summer camps for two kids. The budgets being posted leave a lot of these things out.

In short, OP, there is no single answer. The answer is different for every family.

Hmmm .... 2,000 x 52 weeks x 1.4 (to adjust for taxes) = 145,600 +150,000 annual + 50,000 second private tuition = $345,600 < $500,000 by a LOT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you were paying over $2,000 a week for household help and other outsourcing, you would pretty quickly figure out why you need $500K. And don't forget extracurricular activities and summer camps for two kids. The budgets being posted leave a lot of these things out.

In short, OP, there is no single answer. The answer is different for every family.

Pray tell, what would one outsource that costs $2K/week that isn't considered luxurious by rational standards?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you were paying over $2,000 a week for household help and other outsourcing, you would pretty quickly figure out why you need $500K. And don't forget extracurricular activities and summer camps for two kids. The budgets being posted leave a lot of these things out.

In short, OP, there is no single answer. The answer is different for every family.

Pray tell, what would one outsource that costs $2K/week that isn't considered luxurious by rational standards?

Full time nanny for younger kid(s), housecleaning and lawn service could come to close to $2,000/week. I wouldn't consider any of this luxurious for a family with two working parents. However, I also don't think you need $500,000 to comfortably send two to private school. I do think you'd need $400,000 though if you didn't want to sacrifice anything major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you were paying over $2,000 a week for household help and other outsourcing, you would pretty quickly figure out why you need $500K. And don't forget extracurricular activities and summer camps for two kids. The budgets being posted leave a lot of these things out.

In short, OP, there is no single answer. The answer is different for every family.

Pray tell, what would one outsource that costs $2K/week that isn't considered luxurious by rational standards?

Full time nanny for younger kid(s), housecleaning and lawn service could come to close to $2,000/week. I wouldn't consider any of this luxurious for a family with two working parents. However, I also don't think you need $500,000 to comfortably send two to private school. I do think you'd need $400,000 though if you didn't want to sacrifice anything major.

Come on. Admit it. These things are luxuries. Most people live without them (I guess only 1% of families have HHI this high?). Just admit that you don't think life would be worth living without these luxuries. You'd rather send your kid to public school than give them up. That's fine. There is nothing wrong with admitting that you would rather keep these luxuries than send your kid to private school since you have access to decent public schools (remembering that many of these luxuries would not be needed if you were not making $500,000. Many go away when you have a lower income because you have more free time)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you were paying over $2,000 a week for household help and other outsourcing, you would pretty quickly figure out why you need $500K. And don't forget extracurricular activities and summer camps for two kids. The budgets being posted leave a lot of these things out.

In short, OP, there is no single answer. The answer is different for every family.

Pray tell, what would one outsource that costs $2K/week that isn't considered luxurious by rational standards?

Full time nanny for younger kid(s), housecleaning and lawn service could come to close to $2,000/week. I wouldn't consider any of this luxurious for a family with two working parents. However, I also don't think you need $500,000 to comfortably send two to private school. I do think you'd need $400,000 though if you didn't want to sacrifice anything major.

Come on. Admit it. These things are luxuries. Most people live without them (I guess only 1% of families have HHI this high?). Just admit that you don't think life would be worth living without these luxuries. You'd rather send your kid to public school than give them up. That's fine. There is nothing wrong with admitting that you would rather keep these luxuries than send your kid to private school since you have access to decent public schools (remembering that many of these luxuries would not be needed if you were not making $500,000. Many go away when you have a lower income because you have more free time)

I never said I wasn't sending my kids to private school! But I maintain that we're not doing it "comfortably" on less than a $400k HHI. On less than that, you're sacrificing.

[Anonymous]

HHI of $160k, one kid in private, and very comfortable and happy. And to do the math for yourself, all you need to do is figure out what you think is "comfortable," then add tuition x number of kids.

If you live comfortably on $70k, and you have one kid, you can live well with one kid in private with a HHI of $100k.

If it takes you $400k to live well and you have one kid, well, you need a HHI of $430 to retain your comfort.

Richer people will feel they couldn't possibly be comfortable on my HHI, and that I must be "sacrificing." And I look at richer people and think they don't know the difference between "comfort" and "luxury."

[Anonymous]

You forgot taxes. If you are living comfortably on $400, you need an HHI of $460 to send one to private. $520 for 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you were paying over $2,000 a week for household help and other outsourcing, you would pretty quickly figure out why you need $500K. And don't forget extracurricular activities and summer camps for two kids. The budgets being posted leave a lot of these things out.

In short, OP, there is no single answer. The answer is different for every family.

Pray tell, what would one outsource that costs $2K/week that isn't considered luxurious by rational standards?

Full time nanny for younger kid(s), housecleaning and lawn service could come to close to $2,000/week. I wouldn't consider any of this luxurious for a family with two working parents. However, I also don't think you need $500,000 to comfortably send two to private school. I do think you'd need $400,000 though if you didn't want to sacrifice anything major.

Come on. Admit it. These things are luxuries. Most people live without them (I guess only 1% of families have HHI this high?). Just admit that you don't think life would be worth living without these luxuries. You'd rather send your kid to public school than give them up. That's fine. There is nothing wrong with admitting that you would rather keep these luxuries than send your kid to private school since you have access to decent public schools (remembering that many of these luxuries would not be needed if you were not making $500,000. Many go away when you have a lower income because you have more free time)

I never said I wasn't sending my kids to private school! But I maintain that we're not doing it "comfortably" on less than a $400k HHI. On less than that, you're sacrificing.

Well, to really live comfortably, you need much more than that. Face it, if you only have $500,000, you are sacrificing a home in the Caribbean and the apartment in Manhattan. Also, you are sacrificing a really top notch string of polo ponies. And face, it, without these, you are definitely sacrificing. Because, face it, if you are sacrificing anything you really want, how can you say you are comfortable?

[Anonymous]

We are sending three kids with a HHI of $325K. There are lots of sacrifices, but certainly our choice. We cover the majors like mortgage (unfortunately bought at the peak), car and maximum on the 401K. Grandparents are saving for college, thankfully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP didn't ask if it could be done for less. She asked where it would be comfortable. I think below $500K you have to cut costs significantly somewhere, although if you don't both work that changes the calculus considerably because you need less outside help and have time to shop for better and cheaper alternatives to what is quickest to buy/order. It depends on the particular circumstances of the family in question.

What costs would you have to cut if you only had $300,000? Yes, you might have to sell the beach house, but not if you never bought one to start with.

We have a HHI of $300,000, and I don't see how we could possibly send two kids to private school comfortably. Our mortgage is $4500 (which affords us a nice, but not extravagent, house), we have no car payments, no school debt and NO BEACH HOUSE (I wish!). After taxes, health insurance, bills, approx. $1800/month for our pt nanny (so I can work), savings for college and retirement, and a comfortable- think no fancy trips, but we don't watch our pennies on things like food- living, there's not much (if any) left over at the end of the month. Once we no longer had the nanny, we could probably manage to send one child to private school without having to make too many sacrifices. But to come come with an extra $30,000/year after taxes to send the second one would require a major lifestyle adjustment like moving to a smaller house and/or not saving a penny for college and retirement. I wouldn't consider this "comfortable."

I agree. We are at 480k with two kids in private and we are comfortable but not extravagant. The one luxury we keep is the nanny. Bu I don't see how we could do it without her. I think to be making this much you have at least one parent with a very demanding job.
U

[Anonymous]

This thread is crazy. Our HHI is substantially more than $500K, and we do not have polo ponies, an apartment in Manhatan or a house in the Caribbean. I also like that people crunch numbers without accounting for taxes or that people might have more to do with income than pay a nanny or tuition. It's like people are so blinded by the $500K number that they can't think rationally.

[Anonymous]

We could do it on $325 and comfortably because

1) We consider a 1800sq ft, 3 bedroom, 2 bath house in a nice neighborhood with a mortgage well-under $4k (bought in the last few years) to be very comfortable. Americans generally have a very inflated sense of how large a house needs to be. And, we do our own yardwork and housecleaning.

2) We both work FT, but have enough flexibility between the two of us that we don't need a nanny, although we do use after care on occasion.

3) We bought our car (Honda minivan--not a luxury SUV) in cash and this is our only car.

4) We shop almost exclusively at WF, but we like to cook at home. We eat dinner out once a week at family-type restaurant.

5) We take vacations to see family. When the kids get older, I suspect that vacations will be more expensive because we would like to take DC to new places.

We can still afford all the extra-curriculars the children want to participate in, eat well, dress nicely (though not in designer clothing), and save for retirement and college. This is what I think most people would consider comfortable. I don't think we've "sacrificed," and frankly, the "you need $500K" people seem to have lost touch with reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We could do it on $325 and comfortably because

1) We consider a 1800sq ft, 3 bedroom, 2 bath house in a nice neighborhood with a mortgage well-under $4k (bought in the last few years) to be very comfortable. Americans generally have a very inflated sense of how large a house needs to be. And, we do our own yardwork and housecleaning.
2) We both work FT, but have enough flexibility between the two of us that we don't need a nanny, although we do use after care on occasion.3) We bought our car (Honda minivan--not a luxury SUV) in cash and this is our only car.

4) We shop almost exclusively at WF, but we like to cook at home. We eat dinner out once a week at family-type restaurant.

5) We take vacations to see family. When the kids get older, I suspect that vacations will be more expensive because we would like to take DC to new places.

We can still afford all the extra-curriculars the children want to participate in, eat well, dress nicely (though not in designer clothing), and save for retirement and college. This is what I think most people would consider comfortable. I don't think we've "sacrificed," and frankly, the "you need $500K" people seem to have lost touch with reality.

This is where you've gone wrong, PP. You have no idea what deamnds the kind of jobs that typically pay enough to get you $500K or more frequently demand of the people who have them. Often, these are families who need substantial help (nanny, housekeeper, yard service, dog walker, and so on), and two - actually three, so the nanny has one - cars, to live their lives. Why? Because at any moment, one or both parents would be completely unable to make aftercare pick up. One or both parents may be called upon to work on an emergency project that requires working all weekend. Oops - there goes the laundry and the housecleaning. One or both parents want to maximize their free time with their children on the weekends, since weeknights are taken up with homework and parent work. And the parents need to be able to travel separately (one is heading to the airport while the other heads to the office) and to leave a safe car at home for the nanny to pick up the kids from school. Time is the most precious commodity for these parents. Rather than calling them out of touch with reality, why don't you recognize that their reality is different from yours? If the OP asked, "What does a family with reasonable jobs who has lots of time to work on the yard, do laundry, clean the whole house and pick up the kids and take them to activities without impacting the parents' respective work days need to make to be comfortable putting two kids through private school" the answers may well have been different. The OP didn't ask that question, so people are responding with their realities. If the OP would like to clarify her question, she is of course welcome to do so.