DCPS Policy on Talented & Gifted & Acaemic Magnet Middle School Programs...Questions for You

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Here's my analysis. My child attended a DCPS school from pre-k to Grade Six. Then we went private, in DC. The only program that would work politically is one that combines targeting BOTH gifted and talented and underachieving. A stand alone campaign to get G+T programs will come off as elitist. If you think about it, what should the priority be?

Yes - to piggyback on this, the most significant indicator of academic success (at least, early academic success) is parental education/SES. In DC, the sad reality is that most highly educated/high SES parents are white. Therefore, the G+T program would be mostly high SEs (not all, obviously) and mostly white (again, not all). That's politically untenable for a vast majority of the politicians in DC.

The easiest way to address this is to allow charters to create magnet/G-T programs. But as pps have pointed out, the charter law would have to be amended to permit a selective admissions process. And again, there's little incentive among DC politicians for that - the fear is that a bunch of magnet charters would spring up, and the only kids left in DCPS would be poor performers. That's not an unrealistic fear, either.

Sad to say, it's likely that we (and other parents with the means to do so) will be leaving our excellent charter in the next few years because of these issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - to piggyback on this, the most significant indicator of academic success (at least, early academic success) is parental education/SES. In DC, the sad reality is that most highly educated/high SES parents are white. Therefore, the G+T program would be mostly high SEs (not all, obviously) and mostly white (again, not all). That's politically untenable for a vast majority of the politicians in DC.

DISAGREE

A controlled choice middle school east of the park would be majority African American for the foreseeable future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - to piggyback on this, the most significant indicator of academic success (at least, early academic success) is parental education/SES. In DC, the sad reality is that most highly educated/high SES parents are white. Therefore, the G+T program would be mostly high SEs (not all, obviously) and mostly white (again, not all). That's politically untenable for a vast majority of the politicians in DC.

DISAGREE - A controlled choice middle school east of the park would be majority African American for the foreseeable future.

More whites may enter the system, but there are many more strong African American middle school students currently in the system. Any controlled choice program with proficiency as the admission requirement would have AAs as a plurality if not majority. A controlled choice MS program would increase DCPS enrollment immediately, and it would benefit AAs immensely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,
A case study in DC is Wilson, one third of students have a GPA of 2.0 or lower, the top third go to great colleges. The politics at Wilson are nuts. Anyone can take AP History or English. What's the point of that? To placate folks who cry elitism. This is entrenched DC politics. I'm PP 9:33. I think someone should start a non-profit that creates programs for both groups. Why not? Years ago my mother worked at such a beast in Connecticut.

new poster here. i don't follow the reasoning above-- if 1/3 of wilson kids are going to great colleges, what is the problem? That's far better than most high schools in America. and why not let anyone that is interested take AP classes? I took AP English and had to test into it, but I imagine folks that didn't test in could have still taken the class and learned a lot from it. I don't see that keeping kids separated by ability is helpful. Separate out the kids that are disruptive, but let kids follow their interests. They are just kids!

Signed,

A Happy Brent Mom

[Anonymous]

There are too few gifted and talented students to warrant a effort by DCPS to create and sustain programs that siphon resources from the rest of the system.

[Anonymous]

Forget the G&T idea. How about a controlled choice program that creates a 66% proficient MS?

[Anonymous]

My daughter took a G&T test in K when we lived in another state. She passed, but I was shocked at the criteria they used. It wasn't just about can you read or add exceptionally well, they were considering much more than that. In addition to the basics, they seemed to be testing how the child processed information and, how creative they were in their thinking. It was a very rigorous test that was adminstered over the course of one week. Given their valuation system (you had to score above 90-something% in each of the areas they tested--some of which seemed subjective to me), you could easily have a really smart kid who didn't pass the test. There were several in my daughter's class that didn't pass (Note: the test was not offered to everyone) and if the child didn't pass the test the first time, they had to wait two years before they could take the test again. The parents I knew were okay with that BUT that was not Washington DC.

Can you imagine some of the parents in this city being notified that their DC did not pass a G&T test?????!!!! Or worse, were not recommended to take the test in the first place!!??? It would be a lawyer's dream.

Again, this was just how one state handled G&T testing. It may be different in other places. That being said, my daughter thrived in those G&T pull out sessions. They were fun and creative and expeditionary. She absolutely loved going to school precisely because of those pull out sessions! When we moved back here and we enrolled her into a well regarded DCPS, my daughter had a hard time adjusting to the traditional class ONLY model. She had a very good teacher, but with 25+ students and no G&T pull out sessions, I saw the light begin to dim in her eyes. She did well, but her interest in school overall diminished. So, this year I gave up my great OOB spot and put her into a new charter, and (at least as of yesterday)...her excitement about school and the light in her eyes have returned.

If the G&T programs are standard across the country (and I don't know if they are), then it seems to me that the advantage is their approach to learning. Those pull out sessions that my daughter attended weren't extra work or drill time, it was exploration and exposure time. All kids can benefit from that model of learning and all schools should be able to incorporate it into their curriculum. HOWEVER, that kind of approach--which creates great critical thinking-- doesn't necessarily get you higher test scores off the bat--and that's what many of these parents want and consequently, judge the schools by.

[Anonymous]

Admission requirements for entrance to a middle school program that starts from a position of strength.


Math/reading proficiency on DC-CAS.
OR
G.P.A. - 2.0 (out of 4) in 5th grade.

[Anonymous]

DC needs controlled choice middle schools.

[Anonymous]

If the G&T programs are standard across the country (and I don't know if they are), then it seems to me that the advantage is their approach to learning. Those pull out sessions that my daughter attended weren't extra work or drill time, it was exploration and exposure time. All kids can benefit from that model of learning and all schools should be able to incorporate it into their curriculum. HOWEVER, that kind of approach--which creates great critical thinking-- doesn't necessarily get you higher test scores off the bat--and that's what many of these parents want and consequently, judge the schools by.

This. As long as we judge schools and teachers by standardized test scores, we will never have the innovation in curriculum or delivery that fosters true critical thinking.
We will, however, continue to have teaching to the test and erasure scandals.

[Anonymous]

Standardized tests are but a thin slice. Even though, for me, with so many schools to consider, quantitative metrics are handy. Of course a student is more than digits, and a program is more than proficiency. But considering 70,000+ students, GPAs & CAS numbers help sort things out.

[Anonymous]

What if every ward got one controlled choice middle school program - except Three and Two, since their demographics are different.

[Anonymous]

How many students from Wards 7 and 8 would qualify for an advanced studies MS program? 500? 1,000?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if every ward got one controlled choice middle school program - except Three and Two, since their demographics are different.

Well, here in Ward 5 we don't have a middle school at all. However, there has been talk on the local lists of creating one. One that you had to apply to would likely attract more middle class Ward 5 families. Most people I know probably wouldn't be willing to send their kid(s) to a typical inboundary middle school. If you had to apply, I think it would attract more families like mine.

[Anonymous]

How many Ward 5 5th graders would qualify for a controlled choice school MS (proficient in math/reading)? 200?