Rankiong the Catholic high schools
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Anonymous
I beg to differ. Catholic schools come in all shapes and colors (as they should). They have different missions, selection criteria, cultures, etc. The University of Notre Dame, for example, is extremely selective and is regularly ranked in the top 20. Outside of leeway given for athletes (albeit not nearly as much as other schools give), it does not have an open door for legacy students, questionable academic applicants, etc. Granted, the comparison is not entirely apt since it is comparing a university with high schools, but the point is that Catholic schools have every right to be selective and academically top tier. At the high school level, the legacy factor and the Church's mission can dilute the academic performance of the school in the aggregate. You almost have to segregate that population of the school, and then look at the results of the rest of the student body. I attended a very well-regarded Jesuit school in another area. Every year, kids from a free Jesuit run grade school are admitted. Even though they showed academic promise, they come from lower income areas and are not as ready for the rigors of the high school as the rest of the students. Catholic education is complex, and mirrors the universal Church: from the riches of the Vatican to the soup kitchen in the poorest area imaginable. |
Anonymous
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No no, the value of diversity is exactly the point. A recurring theme on DCUM is that Catholic schools (especially high schools) don't measure up academically to their private counterparts. But that's comparing apples to oranges. Some Catholic schools, like those often mentioned (and ridiculed) on this site happen to be academically strong, but placing half the graduating class at Ivy League schools is not their primary mission. Jesuit schools attract certain types of Catholic families. Ditto for all-girl schools like Visitation or Stone Ridge. These schools take a certain approach with their students that we Catholics know how to differentiate. Likewise, the schools know how to identify kids who fit their particular culture. You hear endless stories about perfect students who are declined admissions to competitive Catholic high schools (along with universities like Notre Dame), yet grades and test scores aren't the only way to determine a good fit. These schools start with a philosophy and build their student body around it. For instance, even the most competitive schools LIKE the idea of multiple siblings. Okay, so that means a few more B students, but it also means you're more likely to invest your time and money. Contrast this to the thread about siblings being denied admissions at Sidwell. That would be the rare, rare exception at any Catholic school. They'd rather have the sister with a couple of Bs, than the perfectly groomed prodigy who has applied to all the top schools.
Anyway, my point is that parents who are interested in Catholic schools should take the broadest possible view, because academics are only part of the package. |
Anonymous
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My triple Ivy-degreed husband (MA, PhD, JD), who attended an excellent Midwestern undergraduate school, loves to explain to people why we send our sweet and brilliant girls to Stone Ridge: for the values espoused in St Madeleine's 5 goals. Our girls are blessed with intellectual gifts that we feel need to be guided by strong values. The academics are, in fact, excellent for those students wishing to pursue an aggressive program. But we believe that the school's greatest asset is the pholosophy that guides the teachers and the students. Academics alone can be found in many places; St Madeleine's idea of "wise freedom" is a gift that girls can find at Stone Ridge.
Stone Ridge was our choice but there are thankfully many options for the discerning Catholic patent. |
Anonymous
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The last two posts were exceptional - kudos to both of you.
(If I may add as an aside, the obsession with Ivy league matriculation rates does a disservice to the students. If a student from one of the "Big 3" does get into an Ivy, should they feel like a failure?) |
Anonymous
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21:13 -- Thank you so much for sharing your ideas in such a thoughtful way! You say "Jesuit schools attract certain types of Catholic families.". May I ask what you meant by that? What types of families? I am not challenging you; we are looking at schools for our DC, and I am trying to educate myself about options.
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Anonymous
I didn't post that, but I know what she or he means. It is generally true -- but certainly not universally true --- that the two Jesuit high schools (Prep and Gonzaga) serve a more economically "upscale" crowd. GP and GZA parents are more likely to be doctors, dentists, lawyers and business owners. Not surprising because these two schools are more expensive that the other Catholic high schools. Two other observations about the GP and GZA parents -- that might also be true of some of the others -- is that they tend to be old Washington familes who have lived in the area for generations. And they are very frequently "practicing" Catholics who are committed to Catholic education with strong representation from parishes like De Chantal, Mercy, Holy Trinity, St Bart's St John's in years past served the same group but sort of fell behind in the 80's and 90's. Prep Father's Club meetings in the 1990's sometimes seemed like St John's alumni meetings who would have liked to have sent their kids to St John's if it were the same St John's they attended. This isn't to say there aren't old Washington families with significant financial resources that send their kids to The Heights or Good Counsel or DeMatha. Or that there aren't people that are new to Washington that send their boys to Prep. Washington is in many ways the most "balkanized" city I have lived in. The size and strength of the Catholic school "system" is just one indicator. |
Anonymous
| Prep is one of the schools we are interested in and was wondering how are non-Catholic boys and/or their families treated by the school and other families? |
Anonymous
| Jesuit schools are also a generally more "liberal" type of Catholic school than some other schools. |
Anonymous
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[quote=Anonymous]Prep is one of the schools we are interested in and was wondering how are non-Catholic boys and/or their families treated by the school and other families?[/quote]
The answer in a word is "politely". High school boys aren't going to make a big deal ---or any deal --- out of anyone's religion, Neither will the Faculty. The Jesuits -- if there are any left -- actually like having different viewpoints on Religion. But there might be conversations and even activities where your son may feel a little left-out. Nothing serious. But, he will be, afterall, a minority. Many of these boys and their families know each other before they arrive at Prep from their parish, from neighborhoods, from CYO and other youth sports, and from family connections. And the schools tend to align themselves with similar girl's schools. Prep boys date girls from Catholic girls schools including Stone Ridge, Visitation and Holy Cross. That being said, in my experience there is no group of student's that are more happy than the African-American students at Prep. There aren't a lot of them, but those that are there appear to love the place. And the majority of these boys are not Catholic. |
Anonymous
| 18:16 - Thank you for sharing your view. Do you know how rigorous the classes are? DS is very smart/at the top of his class and we would like to find a high school that provides academic rigor along with a peer group of smart kids in classes to push each other. We really like the "feel" of GP, but have heard mix things about the academics. We are somewhat familar with its sports program and would appreciate hearing more about its art/music program, extra-curricular activities, clubs, etc. Also, besides fund raising, is family/parent involvement encouraged? |
Anonymous
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[quote=Anonymous]18:16 - Thank you for sharing your view. Do you know how rigorous the classes are? DS is very smart/at the top of his class and we would like to find a high school that provides academic rigor along with a peer group of smart kids in classes to push each other. We really like the "feel" of GP, but have heard mix things about the academics. We are somewhat familar with its sports program and would appreciate hearing more about its art/music program, extra-curricular activities, clubs, etc. Also, besides fund raising, is family/parent involvement encouraged?[/quote]
Not every student at Prep is a genius. But there is in every class a core of very smart kids who challenge one another academically and intellectually. These students are clustered in the AP classes. The top of the GP class can hold its own against any of the DC privates. The reason you hear "mixed" things about the academics is because the school serves a range of academic interests and capabilities. The bottom end of this range is higher than at many places with the exception of some special cases who are there for a number of reaons (athletics, money, family connections, etc) Our experience is with GP athletics. I know there is a theater and an arts program, but beyond that I am clueless. The key to Prep is the "feel' of the place. It's the way that the boys relate to one another and their teachers. Depends on what you mean by parental involvement. They want parents who are interested in their sons academic and social pursuits. But none of these schools is going to accept a lot of input on many topics. Part of our very positive experience with GP and other Catholic schools is that we didn't need to be constantly involved. We trusted the school and the coaches and their friends and their friend's families. The little bird has got to fly by himself at some point in time. |
Anonymous
| 09:31 - Thank you for your insight. Since your experience is more with the athletics and GP is very sports focused, do you know how well socially boys who are not athletic fit in. DS loves and plays on sport teams, but not "travel" and I'm not sure would make any of GP's teams, but I could be wrong. What percentage of the student body would you say is very athletic? I think I'm trying to figure out whether a school like GP makes sense for DS. Are non-athletes looked down upon or is everyone accepted? Are there enough non-althletes at the school for those boys to have a strong enough peer group? We like many things about GP, but are not sure DS would be happiest at a school like GP because of its heavy focus on sports if he is not able to participate. |
Anonymous
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[quote=Anonymous]My triple Ivy-degreed husband (MA, PhD, JD), who attended an excellent Midwestern undergraduate school, loves to explain to people why we send our sweet and brilliant girls to Stone Ridge: for the values espoused in St Madeleine's 5 goals. Our girls are blessed with intellectual gifts that we feel need to be guided by strong values. The academics are, in fact, excellent for those students wishing to pursue an aggressive program. But we believe that the school's greatest asset is the pholosophy that guides the teachers and the students. Academics alone can be found in many places; St Madeleine's idea of "wise freedom" is a gift that girls can find at Stone Ridge.
Stone Ridge was our choice but there are thankfully many options for the discerning Catholic patent. [/quote] PP, thanks for so succinctly explaining why a parent would choose Stone Ridge or a Network school. You truly get it. I feel like SR often doesn't get enough love on this site, because it does fly below the radar, the students in the US are "nice girls" (or nicer than most) and are very focused. I wouldn't trade the experience I got at SR for the world and I hope to send my DD. I'm also amused at how Visi legacies are endlessly discussed on this site but the fact is that Sacred Heart legacies were very common in the years I was at SR. Even if a girl's mom didn't go to SR, she might have gone to Forest Ridge, or Eden Hall, Newton or 91st St (or even abroad). The reach of the Sacred Heart and their values is far and it's a wonderful network to have. I met other Sacred Heart alums (recognized them by their rings!) in college and bonded with them. It's like a sorority but better. |
Anonymous
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[quote=Anonymous] 09:31 - Thank you for your insight. Since your experience is more with the athletics and GP is very sports focused, do you know how well socially boys who are not athletic fit in. DS loves and plays on sport teams, but not "travel" and I'm not sure would make any of GP's teams, but I could be wrong. What percentage of the student body would you say is very athletic? I think I'm trying to figure out whether a school like GP makes sense for DS. Are non-athletes looked down upon or is everyone accepted? Are there enough non-althletes at the school for those boys to have a strong enough peer group? We like many things about GP, but are not sure DS would be happiest at a school like GP because of its heavy focus on sports if he is not able to participate. [/quote]
It's hard to fight through the images one might have of a school and get to the truth. How many "great" athletes at Prep? Well in a Class of 110 or 120, there might be 5 or 10 really superior athletes. Then there's a core of kids that play but that won't be playing beyond high school. The varsity football team might have 35 players. The JVs have 25 and the Freshman 25. So out of the 450 kids about a quarter play football. That leaves 360 who do not. If you asked me to guess, I'd say at least half don't play sports seriously or at all. And if you son has any interest whatsoever, the coaches will find him for some activity. Sports like hockey and wrestling have sort of sprung up at GP to serve the kids that don't play football, basketball or lacrosse. But the non-athletes aren't cut out of the action. Go to the games and watch "The Boosters". Dressed outlandishly they stand together and cheer and sing and act up. Not a lot of athletes in this crowd, but they are included. They do feel a part. There is a feeling of "community" at Prep. There isn't a "jock" clique that I observed. Two of our sons were multi-sport "stars" at GP, but among their close friends were kids that weren't athletes but who shared their sense of humor, their taste in music and all the other stuff that makes kids friends. I have my list of complaints about GP after a long tenure as a parent. But I'd give the place very high marks for how the boys treat one another. You really ought to find a recent alum .... someone who is out of college and ask them about the environement there. |
Anonymous
| 8:39 - Thank you again for taking the time to share some of your experience with GP. It has been some of the most helpful insight I have recieved. May I ask what are some of your complaints about the school? And in your opinion what, if anything, they could do to improve the school especially in the academic area? |