Terror attack/murder in Israel

[Anonymous]

that goes for Obama too.

[Anonymous]

Would it be off-base to suggest that we tend too much to pick sides and cast this particular situation in good guy/bad guy terms. There are hatred and vile acts on both sides. There are also ordinary people on both sides who just want to live in peace.

I don't mean to say it should be off limits for political discussion, or that we should not be critical of unnecessary, and sometimes purposeful, killing by either side. My point is just that we seem to go off onto angry tangents because of our emotional involvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a christian and a tea-partier this is my 2 cents. The Jews are a Huge cornerstone of what we know and enjoy as Western Civilization. Western Civilization is the most moral, humanitarian, most respectful of the sanctity of life and the individual that has ever existed. The Jews have made unbelievable intellectual contributions to modern society /the advancement of science/ entertainment and they are funny as hell (Mel Brooks). The Jews are Gods chosen people (sorry Arabs) and are reflective of Gods nature in that they will be persecuted but never even come close to being destroyed. Israel is the only decent and civilized country in the craphole of the middle east. Israel is an friend we can depend on. The palestinians will never get Israel back , God won't allow it....suck it arabs.

Well, it is a good job someone is making intellectual contributions to modern society, because you sure as hell aren't, you fuckwit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a christian and a tea-partier this is my 2 cents. The Jews are a Huge cornerstone of what we know and enjoy as Western Civilization. Western Civilization is the most moral, humanitarian, most respectful of the sanctity of life and the individual that has ever existed. The Jews have made unbelievable intellectual contributions to modern society /the advancement of science/ entertainment and they are funny as hell (Mel Brooks). The Jews are Gods chosen people (sorry Arabs) and are reflective of Gods nature in that they will be persecuted but never even come close to being destroyed. Israel is the only decent and civilized country in the craphole of the middle east. Israel is an friend we can depend on. The palestinians will never get Israel back , God won't allow it....suck it arabs.

If you were a fellow Jew, I would tell you to shut your mouth; we have enough problems without blabbing how wonderful we are. But since you are a Christian, I'll just say: Please stop; we have enough problems without you blabbing about how wonderful we are.

[Anonymous]

Western civilization is superior....THATS RIGHT I SAID IT. carry on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Western civilization is superior....THATS RIGHT I SAID IT. carry on.

Judaism is middle eastern. You are contradicting yourself.

[Anonymous]

Israel is a western capitalistic democracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Israel is a western capitalistic democracy.

You had earlier referred to God's chosen people. The people God chose in the bible are historically, politically, and genetically middle eastern. I don't know if he has made any pronouncements about the state of Israel, but given that most of modern Israelis are secular, it's tough to speak for him.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Israel is a western capitalistic democracy.

Israel is actually quite socialist. You should Google "kibbutz". It might turn you pro-Palestinian

The vast majority of the land is Israel is either out-right owned or controlled by the state. You can't even buy it, but must lease it from the government.

Israel has socialized healthcare. They have death panels and everything.

[Anonymous]

Ok..I like American Jews! (and I will die to protect Seinfeld and Mel Brooks)

[Anonymous]

Jeff's right. The founding of Israel was full of socialist ideals. A kibbutz was like a collective farm. And they were singing Red Army songs as Israeli folk songs!

Also 1/3 of the people in the country work for the government. The number would be larger, but over time they have privatized a lot of the state-owned industries.

Another consideration: The government doles out huge amounts of money to various groups such as settlers, immigrants, and the 65% of ultraorthodox men who do not work and live off of government stipend, as well as allowances given to large families. Talk about social engineering.

The top tax bracket is 45% The VAT is 16%

Officially unemployment is 8%, but the reality is that they aren't counting most of the unemployed: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/10/world/la-fg-israel-idle-20100511

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel is a western capitalistic democracy.

Israel is actually quite socialist. You should Google "kibbutz". It might turn you pro-Palestinian

The vast majority of the land is Israel is either out-right owned or controlled by the state. You can't even buy it, but must lease it from the government.

Israel has socialized healthcare. They have death panels and everything.

There are vey few kibbutzim still around in Israel. Those that are around have mostly left the socialist model and are now more of cooperative businesses. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/world/africa/27iht-27kibbutz.7265276.html

As far as health care, Israel has one of the most successful health care programs in the world. http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=175612

"Despite widespread misconceptions, the country’s health care system is not a socialized, single-payer system. Israelis generally accept as almost axiomatic that there should be universal health coverage, with a significant acceptance of government involvement in regulating health care for the sake of redistribution, accountability, and preventing competition from leading to uncontrollable cost overruns. At the same time, there is also recognition of the benefits of keeping a strong measure of competition in the system. This has led to what Glazer describes as “regulated competition”: universal state-financed insurance coverage is provided through four competing health-maintenance organizations."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel is a western capitalistic democracy.

Israel is actually quite socialist. You should Google "kibbutz". It might turn you pro-Palestinian

The vast majority of the land is Israel is either out-right owned or controlled by the state. You can't even buy it, but must lease it from the government.

Israel has socialized healthcare. They have death panels and everything.

There are vey few kibbutzim still around in Israel. Those that are around have mostly left the socialist model and are now more of cooperative businesses. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/world/africa/27iht-27kibbutz.7265276.html

As far as health care, Israel has one of the most successful health care programs in the world. http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=175612

"Despite widespread misconceptions, the country’s health care system is not a socialized, single-payer system. Israelis generally accept as almost axiomatic that there should be universal health coverage, with a significant acceptance of government involvement in regulating health care for the sake of redistribution, accountability, and preventing competition from leading to uncontrollable cost overruns. At the same time, there is also recognition of the benefits of keeping a strong measure of competition in the system. This has led to what Glazer describes as “regulated competition”: universal state-financed insurance coverage is provided through four competing health-maintenance organizations."

Participation in the health care system is compulsory and paid for by the government through social security taxes. Can you say "mandate"?

The government dictates the list of services that will be provided or excluded by each of the 4 HMO's. Ooh, the government gets to decide whether you get that drug or procedure!

The Ministry of Health runs most of the big hospitals except for one of the HMO's which has its own.

And those HMO's you were touting? They were set up by labor unions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel is a western capitalistic democracy.

Israel is actually quite socialist. You should Google "kibbutz". It might turn you pro-Palestinian

The vast majority of the land is Israel is either out-right owned or controlled by the state. You can't even buy it, but must lease it from the government.

Israel has socialized healthcare. They have death panels and everything.

There are vey few kibbutzim still around in Israel. Those that are around have mostly left the socialist model and are now more of cooperative businesses. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/world/africa/27iht-27kibbutz.7265276.html

As far as health care, Israel has one of the most successful health care programs in the world. http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=175612

"Despite widespread misconceptions, the country’s health care system is not a socialized, single-payer system. Israelis generally accept as almost axiomatic that there should be universal health coverage, with a significant acceptance of government involvement in regulating health care for the sake of redistribution, accountability, and preventing competition from leading to uncontrollable cost overruns. At the same time, there is also recognition of the benefits of keeping a strong measure of competition in the system. This has led to what Glazer describes as “regulated competition”: universal state-financed insurance coverage is provided through four competing health-maintenance organizations."

Participation in the health care system is compulsory and paid for by the government through social security taxes. Can you say "mandate"?

The government dictates the list of services that will be provided or excluded by each of the 4 HMO's. Ooh, the government gets to decide whether you get that drug or procedure!

The Ministry of Health runs most of the big hospitals except for one of the HMO's which has its own.

And those HMO's you were touting? They were set up by labor unions.

Well, right now, my US HMO decides if I get a drug or procedure, so I dont know why thats a better system than the Israeli government deciding. I have many American friends who now live in Israel and are very satisfied with the quality of care they are receiving. This article from the NEJM suns up the Israeli system quite nicely http://healthpolicyandreform.nejm.org/?p=2241. Every country, including Israel has much to criticize, but their health care system is really not one of them - particularly when compared to the US system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Israel is a western capitalistic democracy.

Israel is actually quite socialist. You should Google "kibbutz". It might turn you pro-Palestinian

The vast majority of the land is Israel is either out-right owned or controlled by the state. You can't even buy it, but must lease it from the government.

Israel has socialized healthcare. They have death panels and everything.

There are vey few kibbutzim still around in Israel. Those that are around have mostly left the socialist model and are now more of cooperative businesses. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/world/africa/27iht-27kibbutz.7265276.html

As far as health care, Israel has one of the most successful health care programs in the world. http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=175612

"Despite widespread misconceptions, the country’s health care system is not a socialized, single-payer system. Israelis generally accept as almost axiomatic that there should be universal health coverage, with a significant acceptance of government involvement in regulating health care for the sake of redistribution, accountability, and preventing competition from leading to uncontrollable cost overruns. At the same time, there is also recognition of the benefits of keeping a strong measure of competition in the system. This has led to what Glazer describes as “regulated competition”: universal state-financed insurance coverage is provided through four competing health-maintenance organizations."

Participation in the health care system is compulsory and paid for by the government through social security taxes. Can you say "mandate"?

The government dictates the list of services that will be provided or excluded by each of the 4 HMO's. Ooh, the government gets to decide whether you get that drug or procedure!

The Ministry of Health runs most of the big hospitals except for one of the HMO's which has its own.

And those HMO's you were touting? They were set up by labor unions.

Well, right now, my US HMO decides if I get a drug or procedure, so I dont know why thats a better system than the Israeli government deciding. I have many American friends who now live in Israel and are very satisfied with the quality of care they are receiving. This article from the NEJM suns up the Israeli system quite nicely http://healthpolicyandreform.nejm.org/?p=2241. Every country, including Israel has much to criticize, but their health care system is really not one of them - particularly when compared to the US system.

Well that's fine, but if you don't like what your HMO offers, you or your company can get insurance at another one. But in Israel , all you can do is to go to the other 3 HMO's - who offer the exact same benefit package by law, which means you are stuck with whatever the government decides.

On top of it, salaries are regulated and very low. The quality of care now is good because of the influx of doctors from the former soviet republics. But the country is only graduating a few hundred doctors a year - primarily because a primary care physician gets paid only a tad more than twice the per capita average. It is a decent job, but not a top earning profession in Israel. If we paid doctors like that here, they would be making about $80,000 a year. Ouch.

I'm not arguing that medical care is bad in Israel. But the person who thinks that it is a capitalist system is off his rocker.