Beware of bikers: Elderly D.C. man hit by bicyclist dies

[Anonymous]

NP here but I've posted on other threads before. I was both hit by a bike as a pedestrian (messenger while I was walking downtown, hit me, knocked me into the street, and I had a broken shoulder and tire tracks up the back of a leg (really) as a result) and have been hit by a car as a biker (my fault, I was biking on the sidewalk and a car pulling out of the driveway hit me).

Both times were accidents, both were the biker's fault. Just my experience, which I'll caveat is not to be construed as "typical."

Biking is a responsible alternative to driving. However, as bikers, we need to be responsible! The same traffic laws apply to bikers, but I seldom see bikers following them. And bikers on the sidewalks make my blood boil. I have no problem with a casual biker on the sidewalk, provided he / she is just gliding along and in control and able to stop when a pedestrian gets in the way. I ask them to be careful, as children are on the sidewalk and their movement is not easy to predict. But serious bicycle commuters do NOT belong on the sidewalk. If you are using your bike as a vehicle, you belong on the road. While it is riskier to you as a biker, it's not fair to ask pedestrians to accept the risk you will not accept on the road when you bike on the sidewalk.

[Anonymous]

By the way, in case anyone is wondering about the elderly man who died in this accident, an NPR blogger wrote a nice piece about him and his wife:

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/10/131945621/farewell-to-the-mayor-of-chinatown?sc=fb&cc=fp

[Anonymous]

I am not a biker myself, but I am supportive and appreciative of biking commuters. That said, when bikers don't follow traffic laws, they make it more dangerous on the road for themselves, cars around them and pedestrians. I don't want to hit a biker or something else as I avoid a biker who isn't law-abiding. My pet peeves are not stopping at intersections when required and going the wrong way on a one way street. Cars are a bigger public safety issue, but let's not pretend that bikers don't also pose a risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The same traffic laws apply to bikers, but I seldom see bikers following them. And bikers on the sidewalks make my blood boil. I have no problem with a casual biker on the sidewalk, provided he / she is just gliding along and in control and able to stop when a pedestrian gets in the way. I ask them to be careful, as children are on the sidewalk and their movement is not easy to predict. But serious bicycle commuters do NOT belong on the sidewalk. If you are using your bike as a vehicle, you belong on the road. While it is riskier to you as a biker, it's not fair to ask pedestrians to accept the risk you will not accept on the road when you bike on the sidewalk.

I absolutely agree that everyone should be more respectful, and behave like adults. And bikers who ride on sidewalks absolutely piss me off too. But it's a common misconception that the same traffic laws apply to bikers as cars--bikes have a different set of rules. There is some overlap, but they're not identical.

I'm as much of an advocate of cyclists rights as anyone, but I couldn't agree more if you are going faster than a walking pace, you should be on the road. Transferring personal risk from oneself to pedestrians is reprehensible. Having said that, it has nothing to do with the unique selfishness of cyclists as a population.

[Anonymous]

Sad. Regardless of anything else.

http://dcist.com/2010/12/elderly_man_killed_in_cycling_hit-a.php

[Anonymous]

Oops. Sorry for the double posting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The same traffic laws apply to bikers, but I seldom see bikers following them. And bikers on the sidewalks make my blood boil. I have no problem with a casual biker on the sidewalk, provided he / she is just gliding along and in control and able to stop when a pedestrian gets in the way. I ask them to be careful, as children are on the sidewalk and their movement is not easy to predict. But serious bicycle commuters do NOT belong on the sidewalk. If you are using your bike as a vehicle, you belong on the road. While it is riskier to you as a biker, it's not fair to ask pedestrians to accept the risk you will not accept on the road when you bike on the sidewalk.

I absolutely agree that everyone should be more respectful, and behave like adults. And bikers who ride on sidewalks absolutely piss me off too. But it's a common misconception that the same traffic laws apply to bikers as cars--bikes have a different set of rules. There is some overlap, but they're not identical.

I'm as much of an advocate of cyclists rights as anyone, but I couldn't agree more if you are going faster than a walking pace, you should be on the road. Transferring personal risk from oneself to pedestrians is reprehensible. Having said that, it has nothing to do with the unique selfishness of cyclists as a population.

Incorrect.

The highway codes of all states in the USA treat cyclists as drivers of vehicles unless bicycles are specifically exempted (this usually entails minimum speed laws, however and does not apply to things like traffic signals. In many states, additional rules applying only to cyclists have been added to the highway code.

[Anonymous]

In DC, in certain residential area, bikers are allowed to ride on the sidewalk.

[Anonymous]

As one of "those crazy cyclists" I can sympathize with things written by pedestrians, but sometimes the city leaves us little choice but to ride on sidewalks and do the best we can. Ther are now more bike lanes than ever before -- almsot double the number from 5 years ago -- but on roads where there are none and the traffic is fierce, it would be insane to bike in the street. 16th street is often like that. Cyclists are much more in danger from cars than pedestrians are from cyclists. I think most cyclists would be happy to behave more responsibly if we were given the same consideration that motorists seem to get. And pedestrians do themselves no favors by acting oblivious to those around them, as many often do. Having said all that, I do agree that cyclists -- including myself sometimes -- need to be more considerate as well.

[Anonymous]

as the person who was hit by a biker on the sidewalk, I really object to the notion that bikers are FORCED to use the sidewalk because it is too risky to ride on the street. Pedestrians shouldn't be asked to take on the risk of bikers on the sidewalk because bikers don't want to accept risks on the road. If you feel the street is too risky, by all means continue to lobby for more favorable bike laws. But otherwise, consider public transportation. Because it shouldn't be an option for you to put pedestrians at risk. If you kill a pedestrian by hitting them with your bike, or even just really injure them the way I was injured, how would you feel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In DC, in certain residential area, bikers are allowed to ride on the sidewalk.

True, but this rule should be changed. Density in our urban core in increasing, and there's much higher pedestrian demand for sidewalks in central neighborhoods than there was years ago when this was initially permitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As one of "those crazy cyclists" I can sympathize with things written by pedestrians, but sometimes the city leaves us little choice but to ride on sidewalks and do the best we can. Ther are now more bike lanes than ever before -- almsot double the number from 5 years ago -- but on roads where there are none and the traffic is fierce, it would be insane to bike in the street. 16th street is often like that. Cyclists are much more in danger from cars than pedestrians are from cyclists. I think most cyclists would be happy to behave more responsibly if we were given the same consideration that motorists seem to get. And pedestrians do themselves no favors by acting oblivious to those around them, as many often do. Having said all that, I do agree that cyclists -- including myself sometimes -- need to be more considerate as well.

a) Please examine your logic. Your irresponsible behavior is a peevish reaction to your not getting the same "consideration that motorists seem to get"? Really?

b) Don't forget that those pedestrians "acting oblivious to those around them" nevertheless have the right of way. You yield, period, whether or not you perceive them to be "oblivious".

c) I'll agree with what 00:16 said in response to your assertion that you're forced to use sidewalks because the city leaves you little choice. Better urban planning could resolve this by improving dedicated bike lanes, but sadly, that's probably not what's coming around the bend now that Gabe Klein is out and progressive transportation/ urban planning ideas are expected to take a hit under Gray.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The same traffic laws apply to bikers, but I seldom see bikers following them. And bikers on the sidewalks make my blood boil. I have no problem with a casual biker on the sidewalk, provided he / she is just gliding along and in control and able to stop when a pedestrian gets in the way. I ask them to be careful, as children are on the sidewalk and their movement is not easy to predict. But serious bicycle commuters do NOT belong on the sidewalk. If you are using your bike as a vehicle, you belong on the road. While it is riskier to you as a biker, it's not fair to ask pedestrians to accept the risk you will not accept on the road when you bike on the sidewalk.

I absolutely agree that everyone should be more respectful, and behave like adults. And bikers who ride on sidewalks absolutely piss me off too. But it's a common misconception that the same traffic laws apply to bikers as cars--bikes have a different set of rules. There is some overlap, but they're not identical.

I'm as much of an advocate of cyclists rights as anyone, but I couldn't agree more if you are going faster than a walking pace, you should be on the road. Transferring personal risk from oneself to pedestrians is reprehensible. Having said that, it has nothing to do with the unique selfishness of cyclists as a population.

Incorrect.

The highway codes of all states in the USA treat cyclists as drivers of vehicles unless bicycles are specifically exempted (this usually entails minimum speed laws, however and does not apply to things like traffic signals. In many states, additional rules applying only to cyclists have been added to the highway code.

Sorry, you seem to be saying the exact same thing I am saying. Or perhaps you could tell me how my assertion that "...it's a common misconception that the same traffic laws apply to bikers as cars--bikes have a different set of rules. There is some overlap, but they're not identical..." is contradicted by your position ("Traffic code of all states in the USA treat cyclists as drivers [except for the subset of rules they're exempted from, and the subset of rules that apply only to cyclists]"

You might as well argue that a submarine is in every single way exactly like a fishing boat--except a submarine can submerge and travel underwater, and has torpedoes, and can't catch fish. As I said, bikes have a different set of rules with quite a bit of overlap. This is important because you constantly hear from drivers that "this cyclist passed me on the shoulder", or "a cyclist crossed the street in a crosswalk" as though the cyclist was breaking the law rather than in the right.

Saying "bicycles are subject to all laws as cars" is just plain wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As one of "those crazy cyclists" I can sympathize with things written by pedestrians, but sometimes the city leaves us little choice but to ride on sidewalks and do the best we can. Ther are now more bike lanes than ever before -- almsot double the number from 5 years ago -- but on roads where there are none and the traffic is fierce, it would be insane to bike in the street. 16th street is often like that. Cyclists are much more in danger from cars than pedestrians are from cyclists. I think most cyclists would be happy to behave more responsibly if we were given the same consideration that motorists seem to get. And pedestrians do themselves no favors by acting oblivious to those around them, as many often do. Having said all that, I do agree that cyclists -- including myself sometimes -- need to be more considerate as well.

a) Please examine your logic. Your irresponsible behavior is a peevish reaction to your not getting the same "consideration that motorists seem to get"? Really?

b) Don't forget that those pedestrians "acting oblivious to those around them" nevertheless have the right of way. You yield, period, whether or not you perceive them to be "oblivious".

c) I'll agree with what 00:16 said in response to your assertion that you're forced to use sidewalks because the city leaves you little choice. Better urban planning could resolve this by improving dedicated bike lanes, but sadly, that's probably not what's coming around the bend now that Gabe Klein is out and progressive transportation/ urban planning ideas are expected to take a hit under Gray.

I think you're constructing a straw-man here. My guess is PP is probably quite responsible--for my part, as I said before, I never ride on the sidewalk, unless I'm riding at a slow-walking pace. PP has explained to you why some middle-aged lady who just bought a bike--and has no riding experience, so is too afraid to ride in the street--would ride on the sidewalk. Or why some poor immigrant might ride on the sidewalk on the way to his dishwashing job. PP is not rationalizing their own behavior. They're saying that--if you want things to change for the better--you'd have more success joining the fight to open the streets to all modes of transportation. No reason to get pissy with them and shoot the messenger.

For my part, I'll be riding in the street whether there's a comprehensive network of bike paths here in DC or not. Frankly, the scaredy-cat cyclist riding down the sidewalk doesn't really impact me all that much. I wish they'd change their ways. But clearly it's a big issue for you. So why attack PP who is merely explaining this phenomenon to you?

As far as Gabe Klein leaving, that sucks, but it remains to be seen whether we'll see a radical shift from the policies of Williams/Fenty/Klein.

[Anonymous]

All parties need to act responsibly.

I bike to worked occassionally and sometimes I 'slide' through stop signs. I am generally looking to make sure I make contact with the car's driver (assuming there is a car around). If I need to stop, I stop....but it really is a pain (my ride is through OT Alexandria)..... I agree with PP that said the best thing that could happen is for everyone to walk in the other's shoes. I generally defer to bike's during my commute into work.

That being said, I often ride/walk on the GW trail with my kids. I have been yelled at more than once by biker's that are going to fast for trails of mixed use (strollers, small kids, etc). I yell back.