Beware of bikers: Elderly D.C. man hit by bicyclist dies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the person calling me an idiot, clearly you're not a pedestrian trying to push a stroller on a daily basis while watching bikes zoom red lights, invade sidewalks with no regard for pedestrians, go the wrong way and every other possible stupidity I see several times a day. Regardless if the guy was a punk, the "nice" bike commuters I see breaking laws all the time face a real possibility of hitting someone too. I dont drive and public transportation is not an option, so walking DC in the stroller to and from daycare is becoming a risky activity.

I lived in Dupont and worked downtown for over 10 years. During that time I was nearly mowed over at least a dozen times by cyclists. (I say this as someone whose DH rode his bike everywhere, including to work every day.) I agree: the "idiot" poster knows jack sh*t about the bike madness out there.

One last thing: I love how anti-bike zealots are "nearly mowed down at least a dozen times by cyclists". They're always just a hair's-breadth away from being killed by gangs of passing cyclists. How often are they nearly mowed down by shopping carts in the produce aisle of their local grocery store?

Their lives must be ever so exciting!

I am not an anti-bike zealot, as I clearly pointed out my mentioning that my husband's bike was his reliable transportation to work for years. I have nothing against bicyclists in the roads. I do, however, detest them speeding by pedestrians on the sidewalk, which is the specific experience I am referring to. Yes, it was a great number of times. If that is outside the realm of your experience, well, that;s outside the realm of your experience. But it was fully mine for years, walking to work day in and day out for over a decade in a highly populated area. Just because you find it hard to believe doesn't make it untrue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the person calling me an idiot, clearly you're not a pedestrian trying to push a stroller on a daily basis while watching bikes zoom red lights, invade sidewalks with no regard for pedestrians, go the wrong way and every other possible stupidity I see several times a day. Regardless if the guy was a punk, the "nice" bike commuters I see breaking laws all the time face a real possibility of hitting someone too. I dont drive and public transportation is not an option, so walking DC in the stroller to and from daycare is becoming a risky activity.

As you've pointed out, you've got about 1000 times more likelihood of being hit by a car than a cyclist, and the damage is incalculably greater. People on bikes are no more or less likely to be assholes than people in cars, or on foot for that matter. Bring a walking stick with you, and put it in the cyclists front spokes next time someone buzzes you on a sidewalk going the wrong way.

I do agree with the PP that you don't do yourself any favors by hanging your argument on this BMX story, though. You might just as well start a discussion with the topic "Beware of Pedestrians: A Pedestrian Punched a Woman and Broke Her Jaw at 14th and Penn Ave SE Last Week".

NP here. I disagree. There is a particular problem with irresponsibility in bicycle culture. Cyclists are not great about yielding the right of way to pedestrians. It is inconvenient for them to stop at intersections, so they resist it. They're supposed to yield to pedestrians on sidewalks in the District, too, but it's much more common for me to have to get out of a cyclist's way because he shows no sign of stopping or slowing. I've posted before about what a PITA this can be for me as a pedestrian dragging a child by one hand and hauling my family's shopping on the other shoulder.

As an urban person, I'm generally in favor of alternatives to driving, but cyclists need to be held to the rules that exist to protect pedestrians.

Sorry, you could make the case with every single one of these things about drivers. Or pedestrians for that matter.

It's incredibly rare to see a driver yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian. So much so that in an urban environment, the first thing we must teach our kids to *always* always be looking for cars. It's inconvenient for them to come to a full stop at stop signs, so they don't. Same with right-turn-on-red. Cars roll through all the time without stopping.

And if you've ever been to a busy grocery store in the burbs, you'll know that being out of a car or off a bike doesn't change things--folks will still run over your toes, or walk right through you, or fail to keep right, or block the aisle, etc.., etc... There is a non-trivial number of folks in our society who are assholes--or thoughtless. Cyclists as a sub-group are simply easier to single out. Driver behavior (and that of pedestrians) is simply "normal" behavior. A pedestrian puts his life at risk simply to cross a street out in the 'burbs, but no one bats an eyelid at the behavior of drivers. Cause that's just the way things are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2009: zero deaths caused by bicyclists.
29 deaths caused by motorists in DC,
526 in Maryland,
867 in Virginia.

lets keep things in proportion, shall we?

NP here. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I think we all agree that bicyclist can be reckless (spoken as someone who used to bike to work -- with a toddler in the baby seat). Are bikers annoying sometimes? Yes. Do they ignore traffic laws more than they should? Yes. Are they a threat to public safety in the same way that cars are? Hell no.

To me, this thread should be filed in the same places as the "I-get-so-mad-when-someone-doesn't-hold-the-door" threads. Bikes are a nuisance -- not deadly killing machines (except in very very rare instances.)

This is just a perfect example of how people are incredibly bad at gauging risk, and what constitutes a threat. All these PPs wringing their hands about the unique threat posed by lawless cyclists are probably the same ones that are scared that the terrorists are going to blow up their plane, or who fail to immunize their kids against common (and deadly diseases) because they're worried about some *incredibly* rare allergic reaction.

If you're living in an urban environment, and you're going to be seriously injured or killed, it's going to be an automobile that does you in. Regardless of whether cyclists wear spandex, or have interesting facial hair, or whatever else makes them seem "outrageous", it's not even close.

[Anonymous]

I am a person who cycles regularly to do errands during the warmer months. My kids also ride their bikes daily on our neighborhood alleys and streets. The worst experiences we have ever had have been on the Capitol Crescent Trail or on the bike path along the Potomac where many aggressively speeding cyclists clad in absurd professional cyclist regalia have nearly crashed into us and crazily yelled obscenities at us for not keeping a tight racing formation on casual Saturday afternoon rides. (our kids were as young as 7,8,9 at the time) There should be Segway mounted police on these trails to collar and ticket these obnoxious jerks. The trails are there for everyone, not just frustrated wannabe Lance Armstrongs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the person calling me an idiot, clearly you're not a pedestrian trying to push a stroller on a daily basis while watching bikes zoom red lights, invade sidewalks with no regard for pedestrians, go the wrong way and every other possible stupidity I see several times a day. Regardless if the guy was a punk, the "nice" bike commuters I see breaking laws all the time face a real possibility of hitting someone too. I dont drive and public transportation is not an option, so walking DC in the stroller to and from daycare is becoming a risky activity.

I lived in Dupont and worked downtown for over 10 years. During that time I was nearly mowed over at least a dozen times by cyclists. (I say this as someone whose DH rode his bike everywhere, including to work every day.) I agree: the "idiot" poster knows jack sh*t about the bike madness out there.

One last thing: I love how anti-bike zealots are "nearly mowed down at least a dozen times by cyclists". They're always just a hair's-breadth away from being killed by gangs of passing cyclists. How often are they nearly mowed down by shopping carts in the produce aisle of their local grocery store?

Their lives must be ever so exciting!

I am not an anti-bike zealot, as I clearly pointed out my mentioning that my husband's bike was his reliable transportation to work for years. I have nothing against bicyclists in the roads. I do, however, detest them speeding by pedestrians on the sidewalk, which is the specific experience I am referring to. Yes, it was a great number of times. If that is outside the realm of your experience, well, that;s outside the realm of your experience. But it was fully mine for years, walking to work day in and day out for over a decade in a highly populated area. Just because you find it hard to believe doesn't make it untrue.

Obviously I wasn't arguing that you weren't passed by a cyclist on a sidewalk in your ten years in Dupont at least a dozen times. I was taking issue with your ever-so-exciting characterization of it as being "nearly mown down!!!" Oh, goodness, if I could tell you the number of times I've been NEARLY MOWN DOWN by drivers in this town, it would make your hair stand up on end. Every time I pass a roller-blader, it seems they're *trying* to MOW ME DOWN. I was eating breakfast the other day during a storm, and saw a tree fall in my neighbor's back yard NEARLY KILLING ME! It was terrifying. In fact, this happens a lot--there was a wind-storm the other day that NEARLY BLEW THE ROOF OFF OF MY HOUSE!!!

My cat scratched DH the other day--ripping open his skin, and nearly putting him IN THE ICU!!!

Life is just so exciting...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
NP here. I disagree. There is a particular problem with irresponsibility in bicycle culture. Cyclists are not great about yielding the right of way to pedestrians. It is inconvenient for them to stop at intersections, so they resist it. They're supposed to yield to pedestrians on sidewalks in the District, too, but it's much more common for me to have to get out of a cyclist's way because he shows no sign of stopping or slowing. I've posted before about what a PITA this can be for me as a pedestrian dragging a child by one hand and hauling my family's shopping on the other shoulder.

As an urban person, I'm generally in favor of alternatives to driving, but cyclists need to be held to the rules that exist to protect pedestrians.

I agree with you. I was just thinking this week about how I see cyclists ALL the time who, on the one hand, insist cars respect their rights and the rules, but on the other, do not actually abide by traffic laws themselves. Red lights seeming to be optional for cyclists a case in point.

I am also curious, what is the rule about a bicycle in traffic, gets to the next red light and PASSES all the cars lined up at that light. Are cyclists in traffic supposed to wait behind the line at red lights, like any other vehicle would have to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a person who cycles regularly to do errands during the warmer months. My kids also ride their bikes daily on our neighborhood alleys and streets. The worst experiences we have ever had have been on the Capitol Crescent Trail or on the bike path along the Potomac where many aggressively speeding cyclists clad in absurd professional cyclist regalia have nearly crashed into us and crazily yelled obscenities at us for not keeping a tight racing formation on casual Saturday afternoon rides. (our kids were as young as 7,8,9 at the time) There should be Segway mounted police on these trails to collar and ticket these obnoxious jerks. The trails are there for everyone, not just frustrated wannabe Lance Armstrongs.

Of course the CCT is terrifying--especially on weekends. It's the bike equivalent of the Beltway, and certainly no place to teach young kids how to ride. I've been riding for decades, and still train and race, but I'm certainly not going to do it on the CCT, nor is any other experienced cyclist. Much safer to ride on the road than on the CCT on a summer weekend day.

Having said all that, the danger posed by the "Lance wannabees" is certainly less than that posed by the middle-aged ladies (and gentlemen) on comfort bikes, riding two abreast on their one ride of the year, who can't even manage to keep their bike in their own lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP here. I disagree. There is a particular problem with irresponsibility in bicycle culture. Cyclists are not great about yielding the right of way to pedestrians. It is inconvenient for them to stop at intersections, so they resist it. They're supposed to yield to pedestrians on sidewalks in the District, too, but it's much more common for me to have to get out of a cyclist's way because he shows no sign of stopping or slowing. I've posted before about what a PITA this can be for me as a pedestrian dragging a child by one hand and hauling my family's shopping on the other shoulder.

As an urban person, I'm generally in favor of alternatives to driving, but cyclists need to be held to the rules that exist to protect pedestrians.

I agree with you. I was just thinking this week about how I see cyclists ALL the time who, on the one hand, insist cars respect their rights and the rules, but on the other, do not actually abide by traffic laws themselves. Red lights seeming to be optional for cyclists a case in point.

Funny, I was just thinking this week about how I see cars ALL the time who, on the one hand, insist cyclists respect their rights and the rules, but on the other, do not actually abide by traffic laws themselves. Speed limits (stop signs, yielding to pedestrians in crossings) seeming to be optional for drivers a case in point. I suppose one could argue there's an equivalence of sorts between cyclists and drivers in this, aside from the fact that the automobile is pretty much the deadliest invention ever created by mankind, and the bicycle is about as benign as can be...other than when operated by those who NEARLY MOW DOWN INNOCENTS.

I am also curious, what is the rule about a bicycle in traffic, gets to the next red light and PASSES all the cars lined up at that light. Are cyclists in traffic supposed to wait behind the line at red lights, like any other vehicle would have to do?

Perfectly legal in MD, DC, and VA. Just curious: Why would this bother you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a person who cycles regularly to do errands during the warmer months. My kids also ride their bikes daily on our neighborhood alleys and streets. The worst experiences we have ever had have been on the Capitol Crescent Trail or on the bike path along the Potomac where many aggressively speeding cyclists clad in absurd professional cyclist regalia have nearly crashed into us and crazily yelled obscenities at us for not keeping a tight racing formation on casual Saturday afternoon rides. (our kids were as young as 7,8,9 at the time) There should be Segway mounted police on these trails to collar and ticket these obnoxious jerks. The trails are there for everyone, not just frustrated wannabe Lance Armstrongs.

Too funny, thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a person who cycles regularly to do errands during the warmer months. My kids also ride their bikes daily on our neighborhood alleys and streets. The worst experiences we have ever had have been on the Capitol Crescent Trail or on the bike path along the Potomac where many aggressively speeding cyclists clad in absurd professional cyclist regalia have nearly crashed into us and crazily yelled obscenities at us for not keeping a tight racing formation on casual Saturday afternoon rides. (our kids were as young as 7,8,9 at the time) There should be Segway mounted police on these trails to collar and ticket these obnoxious jerks. The trails are there for everyone, not just frustrated wannabe Lance Armstrongs.

Of course the CCT is terrifying--especially on weekends. It's the bike equivalent of the Beltway, and certainly no place to teach young kids how to ride. I've been riding for decades, and still train and race, but I'm certainly not going to do it on the CCT, nor is any other experienced cyclist. Much safer to ride on the road than on the CCT on a summer weekend day.

Having said all that, the danger posed by the "Lance wannabees" is certainly less than that posed by the middle-aged ladies (and gentlemen) on comfort bikes, riding two abreast on their one ride of the year, who can't even manage to keep their bike in their own lane.

I'm in my late 40's and run a 7 minute mile. My kids run X-country and are very fit. We are all reasonably in control of our bikes (and our senses). Aggressive jackasses in tight fitting, brightly colored, expensive get ups are really a menace on the bike trails and should train on the streets. They really do yell at children who are not doing any harm. They behave as though their rights are superior to others.

[Anonymous]

I am also curious, what is the rule about a bicycle in traffic, gets to the next red light and PASSES all the cars lined up at that light. Are cyclists in traffic supposed to wait behind the line at red lights, like any other vehicle would have to do?

Perfectly legal in MD, DC, and VA. Just curious: Why would this bother you?

Because on the one hand, they want to be treated like a vehicle, able to use traffic lanes. But it seems as if the normal rules don't apply to them, and

Have you ever been stuck behind a cyclist using your travel lane? And you it's very hard to pass because of course, no one will let you in. And if you are lucky enough NOT to have a bike in your lane, in front of you, there you are innocently waiting at a red light, and a cyclist passes you in the little crack between your car and the curb... and now you are BEHIND a cyclist doing 10 mph. Maybe even the same cyclist you PASSED a few blocks back! Argh!

This is a real problem on K st in the mornings. It's a major artery and the left lane is often being used by a cyclist. Whether you are a cycling proponent or not, you have to acknowledge that bikes using car travel lanes creates a traffic tie up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP here. I disagree. There is a particular problem with irresponsibility in bicycle culture. Cyclists are not great about yielding the right of way to pedestrians. It is inconvenient for them to stop at intersections, so they resist it. They're supposed to yield to pedestrians on sidewalks in the District, too, but it's much more common for me to have to get out of a cyclist's way because he shows no sign of stopping or slowing. I've posted before about what a PITA this can be for me as a pedestrian dragging a child by one hand and hauling my family's shopping on the other shoulder.

As an urban person, I'm generally in favor of alternatives to driving, but cyclists need to be held to the rules that exist to protect pedestrians.

Sorry, you could make the case with every single one of these things about drivers. Or pedestrians for that matter.

It's incredibly rare to see a driver yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian. So much so that in an urban environment, the first thing we must teach our kids to *always* always be looking for cars. It's inconvenient for them to come to a full stop at stop signs, so they don't. Same with right-turn-on-red. Cars roll through all the time without stopping.

Actually, cars generally do yield the right of way in the District because most drivers hesitate long enough to check at intersections. An assertive pedestrian can normally get them to stop entirely. (I don't care if they do it grudgingly.) But cyclists generally avoid stopping or even slowing. As the rabid PPs are showing me, they're clearly brushing off the damage they can cause to pedestrians.

Full disclosure- I was hurt by a sidewalk cyclist as a child in a city where sidewalk cycling isn't legal. Clearly, I recovered, but I was knocked down and cut/ scraped/ bruised. Such collisions may has relatively minor consequences for otherwise hardy people, but discourteous cycling is hardly a victimless crime.

My child has suffered two minor injuries as indirect consequences of needing to be pulled out of the way of speeding sidewalk cyclists. The first was a scraped knee when she stumbled, and the second time I pulled her away from a cyclist whizzing toward us only to place her directly in the path of a runner coming up behind us. Both times, this happened in busier District neighborhoods with lots of pedestrians around.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the awesome post criticizing all the wanna-be Lance Armonstrongs. Honestly I'd be a bit more impressed by amateur atheletes who didn't the feel the need for all the pricey (and very unflattering) getups.

But here's a question to the PP who says it's wrong to use the trails to help kids learn how to ride bikes: exactly where in the world are we allowed to teach our kids to ride? I live near the extension of the Capital Cresent Trail, but my street is too busy thanks to all the lousy, non-law-abiding drivers. So why exactly is my 7yo banned from the Trail so that hordes of dorky white Washingtonians can drive up here to park and ride? And even if I don't jog a 7 minute mile like the PP, why can't I use the trail for exercise?

Fwiw, when I try to cross the street on the Trail extension or Beach Drive, cars always ALWAYS stop at the crosswalk to permit me to jog slowly across.. while the bike nazis don't slow or even swerve. Not long ago, one of them actually had the nerve to yell at me for jogging across the crosswalk and said "didn't you see us coming?" Umm, yes I did, but I operated under the obviously delusional presumption that you might actually obey the law!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I feel like in a war zone, especially during rush hour.

It's the same in the metro during rush hour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I feel like in a war zone, especially during rush hour.

It's the same in the metro during rush hour.

I'm not sure what the quoted PP was referring to as a war zone, but cyclists can knock into pedestrians with much greater force than anyone could muster by walking within a Metro station.