Experience from DMV parents - which school is best for International Relations recruiting/jobs/faculty?

[Anonymous]

Does he want to be in an urban or rural setting? Middlebury is rural while some of these others are urban.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, the other thing to be aware of is that Middlebury and American have both had financial problems in recent years that were forcing cuts to programs. Middlebury’s caused some turmoil. So you may want to look into that as well as you decide.

The only program that Middlebury is cutting is the graduate program in Monterrey, which has been losing money for years. There were no cuts to the undergraduate programs in Vermont.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the other thing to be aware of is that Middlebury and American have both had financial problems in recent years that were forcing cuts to programs. Middlebury’s caused some turmoil. So you may want to look into that as well as you decide.

The only program that Middlebury is cutting is the graduate program in Monterrey, which has been losing money for years. There were no cuts to the undergraduate programs in Vermont.

Middlebury College’s efforts to address a projected $14.1 million budget deficit in the 2025 fiscal year have led to plans to increase undergraduate enrollment, which is expected to result in larger class sizes and increased faculty workloads.
Key Impacts on Class Size and Academic Experience

Higher Enrollment Targets: To manage the deficit, Middlebury is growing its undergraduate population to between 2,600 and 2,650 students over the next few years. While this is a decrease from the peak pandemic enrollment, it is higher than the historical target of 2,500.

No Parallel Staff Increases: The administration stated this increased enrollment will occur without a parallel increase in faculty or staff, leading to concerns about increased class sizes.

Faculty Workload and Student Experience: Professors have expressed concerns that higher enrollment will lead to larger classes and more labor, with some noting that an extra 10 students per class adds significant, uncompensated work.

Concerns Over Academic Quality: Students and faculty have noted that higher enrollment has already caused a negative impact, including a loss of community spaces and a strain on student-faculty relationships. Some fear that small, personal, and specialized classes (particularly in the humanities) are no longer prioritized as a result of these pressures.
(Source: "The Middlebury Campus")

Budget Context
The college is implementing these changes to combat chronic deficits, which are often linked to costs associated with the Middlebury Institute of International Studies in Monterey, California. The administration is focusing on raising revenue through higher tuition and larger student numbers rather than immediate cuts to the student experience, though this has generated,with some describing the strategy as a risk to the quality of education.
(Source: WCAX)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the other thing to be aware of is that Middlebury and American have both had financial problems in recent years that were forcing cuts to programs. Middlebury’s caused some turmoil. So you may want to look into that as well as you decide.

The only program that Middlebury is cutting is the graduate program in Monterrey, which has been losing money for years. There were no cuts to the undergraduate programs in Vermont.

In addition to what the other person posted above, undergrads could study in Monterey, which was particularly relevant for IR students and will no longer be an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First tier: Tufts and GW

Second tier: American and Middlebury

Forget the rest unless there is something specific that really appeals.

Take advantage of all of the offerings on campus, find internships during the summers and even during the semester, plan for grad school.

I don't think you know Middlebury very well. It is EXCELLENT for econ and international/languages.

I actually know Middlebury extremely well and it is not on the same level for IR and political science as Tufts and GW. Sorry. It sounds like you don’t know those fields very well.

Forgot how many Middlebury boosters are on this forum.

Tell us more about these levels, and what qualifies a school to be on a higher level.

Well, Tufts and GW are consistently ranked in the top 10 of the Inside the Ivory Tower IR rankings for one, while Middlebury doesn’t make most of the lists. Policymakers ranked it 22nd while it didn’t register on the IR faculty or think tankers’ list.

Let’s talk about the programs, though, which are important for OP. GW has 37 taught courses (ie not research seminars/thesis ones) this semester. Tufts is a bit harder to find because they include all of the cross-department courses in their course list, but there are 20-some specific IR courses falling under the political science banner.

Middlebury has nine.

Let’s talk about international econ, since one of the PP’s mentioned econ. GW is a top 15 or so US university in International Finance and Open Economy Macro.

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.ifn.html
https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.opm.html

The co-director of the international economics program there is the previous Treasury Undersecretary for International Affairs.

Middlebury does not have these things. It’s just not the same experience. That doesn’t mean it’s bad. But no, it’s not on the same level.

You're comparing apples to oranges. GW is much larger than Midd so of course it's going to have more classes, more professors. But a liberal arts college has different advantages that a larger univ would not.

Most people would consider Middlebury to be much more prestigious than GW. But mabye you have some reason to boost GW.

[Anonymous]

check this out, OP, it seems perfect for your kid!

https://www.middlebury.edu/college/academics/international-politics-economics#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20an%20interest,interact%20with%20the%20global%20economy.

ignore the Midd haters, their kids probably didn't get in!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First tier: Tufts and GW

Second tier: American and Middlebury

Forget the rest unless there is something specific that really appeals.

Take advantage of all of the offerings on campus, find internships during the summers and even during the semester, plan for grad school.

I don't think you know Middlebury very well. It is EXCELLENT for econ and international/languages.

I actually know Middlebury extremely well and it is not on the same level for IR and political science as Tufts and GW. Sorry. It sounds like you don’t know those fields very well.

Forgot how many Middlebury boosters are on this forum.

Tell us more about these levels, and what qualifies a school to be on a higher level.

Well, Tufts and GW are consistently ranked in the top 10 of the Inside the Ivory Tower IR rankings for one, while Middlebury doesn’t make most of the lists. Policymakers ranked it 22nd while it didn’t register on the IR faculty or think tankers’ list.

Let’s talk about the programs, though, which are important for OP. GW has 37 taught courses (ie not research seminars/thesis ones) this semester. Tufts is a bit harder to find because they include all of the cross-department courses in their course list, but there are 20-some specific IR courses falling under the political science banner.

Middlebury has nine.

Let’s talk about international econ, since one of the PP’s mentioned econ. GW is a top 15 or so US university in International Finance and Open Economy Macro.

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.ifn.html
https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.opm.html

The co-director of the international economics program there is the previous Treasury Undersecretary for International Affairs.

Middlebury does not have these things. It’s just not the same experience. That doesn’t mean it’s bad. But no, it’s not on the same level.

You're comparing apples to oranges. GW is much larger than Midd so of course it's going to have more classes, more professors. But a liberal arts college has different advantages that a larger univ would not.

Most people would consider Middlebury to be much more prestigious than GW. But mabye you have some reason to boost GW.

No, no reason to boost any of these schools, just work in this field and wanted to be helpful to OP with honest feedback (unlike the clear Midd boosters). And what people outside of the field think is “more prestigious” is irrelevant. In fact, that typical DCUM private school, rankings-obsessed, choose-the-option-that-impresses-other-private-school-parents-the-most approach is clearly on display on this thread and is leading to bad advice. Yes, GW is not considered as good of a school in many fields; we aren’t talking about those fields.

I agree with you that these schools offer different things. But that’s largely the point. The trade off for the bucolic setting, tiny classes, and close oversight/advising is that you get a much smaller school that offers fewer classes, has less-renowned faculty in the field, is less well-regarded in the field, has smaller career services with fewer connections, and is located in a place that offers fewer opportunities during the school year. OP’s kid should consider all of these things and choose accordingly. But the classic boosting of “this school offers everything and has no downsides” is something OP should see right through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First tier: Tufts and GW

Second tier: American and Middlebury

Forget the rest unless there is something specific that really appeals.

Take advantage of all of the offerings on campus, find internships during the summers and even during the semester, plan for grad school.

I don't think you know Middlebury very well. It is EXCELLENT for econ and international/languages.

I actually know Middlebury extremely well and it is not on the same level for IR and political science as Tufts and GW. Sorry. It sounds like you don’t know those fields very well.

Forgot how many Middlebury boosters are on this forum.

Tell us more about these levels, and what qualifies a school to be on a higher level.

Well, Tufts and GW are consistently ranked in the top 10 of the Inside the Ivory Tower IR rankings for one, while Middlebury doesn’t make most of the lists. Policymakers ranked it 22nd while it didn’t register on the IR faculty or think tankers’ list.

Let’s talk about the programs, though, which are important for OP. GW has 37 taught courses (ie not research seminars/thesis ones) this semester. Tufts is a bit harder to find because they include all of the cross-department courses in their course list, but there are 20-some specific IR courses falling under the political science banner.

Middlebury has nine.

Let’s talk about international econ, since one of the PP’s mentioned econ. GW is a top 15 or so US university in International Finance and Open Economy Macro.

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.ifn.html
https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.opm.html

The co-director of the international economics program there is the previous Treasury Undersecretary for International Affairs.

Middlebury does not have these things. It’s just not the same experience. That doesn’t mean it’s bad. But no, it’s not on the same level.

You're comparing apples to oranges. GW is much larger than Midd so of course it's going to have more classes, more professors. But a liberal arts college has different advantages that a larger univ would not.

Most people would consider Middlebury to be much more prestigious than GW. But mabye you have some reason to boost GW.

No, no reason to boost any of these schools, just work in this field and wanted to be helpful to OP with honest feedback (unlike the clear Midd boosters). And what people outside of the field think is “more prestigious” is irrelevant. In fact, that typical DCUM private school, rankings-obsessed, choose-the-option-that-impresses-other-private-school-parents-the-most approach is clearly on display on this thread and is leading to bad advice. Yes, GW is not considered as good of a school in many fields; we aren’t talking about those fields.

I agree with you that these schools offer different things. But that’s largely the point. The trade off for the bucolic setting, tiny classes, and close oversight/advising is that you get a much smaller school that offers fewer classes, has less-renowned faculty in the field, is less well-regarded in the field, has smaller career services with fewer connections, and is located in a place that offers fewer opportunities during the school year. OP’s kid should consider all of these things and choose accordingly. But the classic boosting of “this school offers everything and has no downsides” is something OP should see right through.

where did you get that from? i'm not saying one school offers everything and has no downsides. personally, i don't think an undergrad should pick a college solely on a planned major as they may change their mind. the major is very relevant yes, but so is the rest of the school. and like it or not, its prestige is a factor. GW just isn't there with some of the other choice for this kid.

[Anonymous]

Seems like Tufts is the best choice overall for both strong IR reputation and strong top school prestige in other areas if you change majors. Boston location a plus.

Seems like GW is a great choice if you know you want to do IR, and unlikely to change majors. DC location a big plus.

Seems like Middlebury is a great choice if you like the college's general prestige as a top LAC, are interested in the language side of IR in particular. It has a good IR program but lags both Tufts and GW. It's also small (3000 students) and rural so that is a plus or minus depending on your needs. Rural Vermont a plus if you want rural/away from metro area vibes.

American is a good choice if you know you want to do IR and nothing but, and you want a defined campus vs GW. Otherwise, pick GW in DC. DC location a plus.

USC/Oxy is a good choice if you want to be in sunny LA above anything else.

Finally, check out Foreign Policy's rankings (2024) for IR undergrad programs broken out by faculty/policymaker/think tank staffer (3 separate lists). Based on it, Tufts/GW is the best followed by American. The others don't feature much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_the_Ivory_Tower

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First tier: Tufts and GW

Second tier: American and Middlebury

Forget the rest unless there is something specific that really appeals.

Take advantage of all of the offerings on campus, find internships during the summers and even during the semester, plan for grad school.

I don't think you know Middlebury very well. It is EXCELLENT for econ and international/languages.

I actually know Middlebury extremely well and it is not on the same level for IR and political science as Tufts and GW. Sorry. It sounds like you don’t know those fields very well.

Forgot how many Middlebury boosters are on this forum.

Tell us more about these levels, and what qualifies a school to be on a higher level.

Well, Tufts and GW are consistently ranked in the top 10 of the Inside the Ivory Tower IR rankings for one, while Middlebury doesn’t make most of the lists. Policymakers ranked it 22nd while it didn’t register on the IR faculty or think tankers’ list.

Let’s talk about the programs, though, which are important for OP. GW has 37 taught courses (ie not research seminars/thesis ones) this semester. Tufts is a bit harder to find because they include all of the cross-department courses in their course list, but there are 20-some specific IR courses falling under the political science banner.

Middlebury has nine.

Let’s talk about international econ, since one of the PP’s mentioned econ. GW is a top 15 or so US university in International Finance and Open Economy Macro.

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.ifn.html
https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.opm.html

The co-director of the international economics program there is the previous Treasury Undersecretary for International Affairs.

Middlebury does not have these things. It’s just not the same experience. That doesn’t mean it’s bad. But no, it’s not on the same level.

You're comparing apples to oranges. GW is much larger than Midd so of course it's going to have more classes, more professors. But a liberal arts college has different advantages that a larger univ would not.

Most people would consider Middlebury to be much more prestigious than GW. But mabye you have some reason to boost GW.

No, no reason to boost any of these schools, just work in this field and wanted to be helpful to OP with honest feedback (unlike the clear Midd boosters). And what people outside of the field think is “more prestigious” is irrelevant. In fact, that typical DCUM private school, rankings-obsessed, choose-the-option-that-impresses-other-private-school-parents-the-most approach is clearly on display on this thread and is leading to bad advice. Yes, GW is not considered as good of a school in many fields; we aren’t talking about those fields.

I agree with you that these schools offer different things. But that’s largely the point. The trade off for the bucolic setting, tiny classes, and close oversight/advising is that you get a much smaller school that offers fewer classes, has less-renowned faculty in the field, is less well-regarded in the field, has smaller career services with fewer connections, and is located in a place that offers fewer opportunities during the school year. OP’s kid should consider all of these things and choose accordingly. But the classic boosting of “this school offers everything and has no downsides” is something OP should see right through.

where did you get that from? i'm not saying one school offers everything and has no downsides. personally, i don't think an undergrad should pick a college solely on a planned major as they may change their mind. the major is very relevant yes, but so is the rest of the school. and like it or not, its prestige is a factor. GW just isn't there with some of the other choice for this kid.

Except if you want prestige in IR, the Inside the Ivory Tower ranking surveys a thousand IR faculty and 600 policymakers and think tankers. Tufts and GW (and even American) have it from this list.

I said earlier the major change argument was fair. But that’s a different argument than “you don’t even know Middlebury” for putting it in a second tier for IR/political science with American, or trying to argue that its IR programs are better. And OP’s kid sounds like he knows what he wants to do. Only OP and the kid can determine whether that is likely to change. For plenty of students, they study exactly what they intend to at the start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First tier: Tufts and GW

Second tier: American and Middlebury

Forget the rest unless there is something specific that really appeals.

Take advantage of all of the offerings on campus, find internships during the summers and even during the semester, plan for grad school.

I don't think you know Middlebury very well. It is EXCELLENT for econ and international/languages.

I actually know Middlebury extremely well and it is not on the same level for IR and political science as Tufts and GW. Sorry. It sounds like you don’t know those fields very well.

Forgot how many Middlebury boosters are on this forum.

Tell us more about these levels, and what qualifies a school to be on a higher level.

Well, Tufts and GW are consistently ranked in the top 10 of the Inside the Ivory Tower IR rankings for one, while Middlebury doesn’t make most of the lists. Policymakers ranked it 22nd while it didn’t register on the IR faculty or think tankers’ list.

Let’s talk about the programs, though, which are important for OP. GW has 37 taught courses (ie not research seminars/thesis ones) this semester. Tufts is a bit harder to find because they include all of the cross-department courses in their course list, but there are 20-some specific IR courses falling under the political science banner.

Middlebury has nine.

Let’s talk about international econ, since one of the PP’s mentioned econ. GW is a top 15 or so US university in International Finance and Open Economy Macro.

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.ifn.html
https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.opm.html

The co-director of the international economics program there is the previous Treasury Undersecretary for International Affairs.

Middlebury does not have these things. It’s just not the same experience. That doesn’t mean it’s bad. But no, it’s not on the same level.

You're comparing apples to oranges. GW is much larger than Midd so of course it's going to have more classes, more professors. But a liberal arts college has different advantages that a larger univ would not.

Most people would consider Middlebury to be much more prestigious than GW. But mabye you have some reason to boost GW.

No, no reason to boost any of these schools, just work in this field and wanted to be helpful to OP with honest feedback (unlike the clear Midd boosters). And what people outside of the field think is “more prestigious” is irrelevant. In fact, that typical DCUM private school, rankings-obsessed, choose-the-option-that-impresses-other-private-school-parents-the-most approach is clearly on display on this thread and is leading to bad advice. Yes, GW is not considered as good of a school in many fields; we aren’t talking about those fields.

I agree with you that these schools offer different things. But that’s largely the point. The trade off for the bucolic setting, tiny classes, and close oversight/advising is that you get a much smaller school that offers fewer classes, has less-renowned faculty in the field, is less well-regarded in the field, has smaller career services with fewer connections, and is located in a place that offers fewer opportunities during the school year. OP’s kid should consider all of these things and choose accordingly. But the classic boosting of “this school offers everything and has no downsides” is something OP should see right through.

where did you get that from? i'm not saying one school offers everything and has no downsides. personally, i don't think an undergrad should pick a college solely on a planned major as they may change their mind. the major is very relevant yes, but so is the rest of the school. and like it or not, its prestige is a factor. GW just isn't there with some of the other choice for this kid.

Except if you want prestige in IR, the Inside the Ivory Tower ranking surveys a thousand IR faculty and 600 policymakers and think tankers. Tufts and GW (and even American) have it from this list.

I said earlier the major change argument was fair. But that’s a different argument than “you don’t even know Middlebury” for putting it in a second tier for IR/political science with American, or trying to argue that its IR programs are better. And OP’s kid sounds like he knows what he wants to do. Only OP and the kid can determine whether that is likely to change. For plenty of students, they study exactly what they intend to at the start.

Look I get that you said you're in the IR field, but again you're completely missing this kid is also interested in Econ. Midd is very strong in Econ. That's a factor too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like Tufts is the best choice overall for both strong IR reputation and strong top school prestige in other areas if you change majors. Boston location a plus.

Seems like GW is a great choice if you know you want to do IR, and unlikely to change majors. DC location a big plus.

Seems like Middlebury is a great choice if you like the college's general prestige as a top LAC, are interested in the language side of IR in particular. It has a good IR program but lags both Tufts and GW. It's also small (3000 students) and rural so that is a plus or minus depending on your needs. Rural Vermont a plus if you want rural/away from metro area vibes.

American is a good choice if you know you want to do IR and nothing but, and you want a defined campus vs GW. Otherwise, pick GW in DC. DC location a plus.

USC/Oxy is a good choice if you want to be in sunny LA above anything else.

Finally, check out Foreign Policy's rankings (2024) for IR undergrad programs broken out by faculty/policymaker/think tank staffer (3 separate lists). Based on it, Tufts/GW is the best followed by American. The others don't feature much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_the_Ivory_Tower

This is useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First tier: Tufts and GW

Second tier: American and Middlebury

Forget the rest unless there is something specific that really appeals.

Take advantage of all of the offerings on campus, find internships during the summers and even during the semester, plan for grad school.

I don't think you know Middlebury very well. It is EXCELLENT for econ and international/languages.

I actually know Middlebury extremely well and it is not on the same level for IR and political science as Tufts and GW. Sorry. It sounds like you don’t know those fields very well.

Forgot how many Middlebury boosters are on this forum.

Tell us more about these levels, and what qualifies a school to be on a higher level.

Well, Tufts and GW are consistently ranked in the top 10 of the Inside the Ivory Tower IR rankings for one, while Middlebury doesn’t make most of the lists. Policymakers ranked it 22nd while it didn’t register on the IR faculty or think tankers’ list.

Let’s talk about the programs, though, which are important for OP. GW has 37 taught courses (ie not research seminars/thesis ones) this semester. Tufts is a bit harder to find because they include all of the cross-department courses in their course list, but there are 20-some specific IR courses falling under the political science banner.

Middlebury has nine.

Let’s talk about international econ, since one of the PP’s mentioned econ. GW is a top 15 or so US university in International Finance and Open Economy Macro.

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.ifn.html
https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.opm.html

The co-director of the international economics program there is the previous Treasury Undersecretary for International Affairs.

Middlebury does not have these things. It’s just not the same experience. That doesn’t mean it’s bad. But no, it’s not on the same level.

You're comparing apples to oranges. GW is much larger than Midd so of course it's going to have more classes, more professors. But a liberal arts college has different advantages that a larger univ would not.

Most people would consider Middlebury to be much more prestigious than GW. But mabye you have some reason to boost GW.

No, no reason to boost any of these schools, just work in this field and wanted to be helpful to OP with honest feedback (unlike the clear Midd boosters). And what people outside of the field think is “more prestigious” is irrelevant. In fact, that typical DCUM private school, rankings-obsessed, choose-the-option-that-impresses-other-private-school-parents-the-most approach is clearly on display on this thread and is leading to bad advice. Yes, GW is not considered as good of a school in many fields; we aren’t talking about those fields.

I agree with you that these schools offer different things. But that’s largely the point. The trade off for the bucolic setting, tiny classes, and close oversight/advising is that you get a much smaller school that offers fewer classes, has less-renowned faculty in the field, is less well-regarded in the field, has smaller career services with fewer connections, and is located in a place that offers fewer opportunities during the school year. OP’s kid should consider all of these things and choose accordingly. But the classic boosting of “this school offers everything and has no downsides” is something OP should see right through.

where did you get that from? i'm not saying one school offers everything and has no downsides. personally, i don't think an undergrad should pick a college solely on a planned major as they may change their mind. the major is very relevant yes, but so is the rest of the school. and like it or not, its prestige is a factor. GW just isn't there with some of the other choice for this kid.

Except if you want prestige in IR, the Inside the Ivory Tower ranking surveys a thousand IR faculty and 600 policymakers and think tankers. Tufts and GW (and even American) have it from this list.

I said earlier the major change argument was fair. But that’s a different argument than “you don’t even know Middlebury” for putting it in a second tier for IR/political science with American, or trying to argue that its IR programs are better. And OP’s kid sounds like he knows what he wants to do. Only OP and the kid can determine whether that is likely to change. For plenty of students, they study exactly what they intend to at the start.

Look I get that you said you're in the IR field, but again you're completely missing this kid is also interested in Econ. Midd is very strong in Econ. That's a factor too.

And you’re missing the point I already made on page 3, which is that the kid is potentially interested in international economics and GW is also very good at that.

I never said Middlebury was bad. It’s just not as strong as two of the other options here for what the kid wants. That’s okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the other thing to be aware of is that Middlebury and American have both had financial problems in recent years that were forcing cuts to programs. Middlebury’s caused some turmoil. So you may want to look into that as well as you decide.

The only program that Middlebury is cutting is the graduate program in Monterrey, which has been losing money for years. There were no cuts to the undergraduate programs in Vermont.

In addition to what the other person posted above, undergrads could study in Monterey, which was particularly relevant for IR students and will no longer be an option.

But only a small number did. Most studied abroad instead.

[Anonymous]

Don't do it. Impossible to get a job in that field.