Rigor (or lack thereof) at St Stephen’s St Agnes

[Anonymous]

Literally the dumbest lawyer I know (and I know plenty of dumb lawyers) went to SSAS and brags about it still. I’ll never be able to get that out of my head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is hard to understand why the college admissions are so bad here. When you remove all the recruited athletes (mainly lacrosse), the remaining admissions seem uniquely subpar, and I know there are plenty of bright hardworking kids at SSSAS.

Perhaps because the school has the reputation described by 13:45?

Not our experience at all. Academic excellence is encouraged. However, it is not assumed that every single kid is capable of taking 3,4 or 5 AP/ honors classes a year. And those classes do have a GPA boost so that does mean a broader spread in GPAs. Not to be too much of a jerk about it but lots of the haters of SSSAS are at rival schools that did away with AP and honors altogether, thus eliminating this issue entirely. At those schools, academic rigor isn’t any more than at SSSAS. On the contrary, those schools have a Lake Wobegon mindset wherein every student is above average. Well, that is baloney and everyone knows it. At SSSAS, kids who are academically inclined get to take harder classes and get the GPA boost. Kids that are more “on level” take the unboosted classes and get commensurately lower GPAs. It’s not less academically rigorous at SSSAS. It is possibly more for those accepted into the high level classes.

[Anonymous]

What do you consider rival schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you consider rival schools?

There are plenty of rivals depending on activity but the main schools without APs that I recall are Potomac and a couple in DC and Maryland. For our family AP was a requirement so for us the non-AP oriented schools weren’t considered. Schools with APs that are typically considered rivals of SSSAS are Episcopal, BI and Flint Hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our experience with SSAS mirrors many others. There are some real positives—especially in the LS, where a few genuinely dedicated teachers took a meaningful interest in our child. But beyond individual classrooms, the culture is the problem. Bullying exists, but the deeper issue is the absence of any culture that supports or encourages academic excellence. There is simply no expectation of rigor, and intellectual curiosity is not just undervalued but sometimes openly mocked. (If you ask around to enough parents, these stories can get quite deflating.) In other words, the environment feels very academically lazy -- and I hate to say it, but that is reinforced by large chunks of the parent community (many of them "proud alums!") who seem to be totally ok with that.

This may sound harsh, but once we looked beyond SSAS, we were struck by how immensely different the academic standards and cultures were at the top schools in the DMV versus what SSSAS offers. Once we understood that, we left—and have been far happier (and our kid has been far more academically engaged) ever since.

100% this. It’s the absence of a culture that values intellectual curiosity, and even a mocking of those who ask genuine, thoughtful questions rather than simply memorize and regurgitate what they are told. I can’t tell you how often teachers at the MS (according to my daughter and her friends) say “for our purposes…” and then oversimplify a topic rather than engaging the kids’ curiosity. Or they say, “you won’t need to know that for the test so don’t worry about it.” The takeaway is that you only learn for a test. Learning beyond what’s needed for a test is seen as foolish, or even annoying. And this is the attitude from teachers.

I did not see this attitude at the lower school, so it’s a real shock how different it is in the MS (it’s probably worse in 7th and 8th than in 6th, as the emphasis on tests increases the shutting down of curiosity and discussion). When kids struggle with the culture, it’s simply dismissed as “middle school is hard.” But this isn’t about classic middle school issues; it’s about the teachers and the admin not having the same values as those in the lower school.

I know several kids leave after MS and I’ve heard several have recently even left mid year (!!). When I heard complaints from other parents previously I always dismissed them and I wish I’d taken what I was being told more seriously. We are leaving after 8th, but I wish we’d left sooner.

[Anonymous]

PPs experience in the middle school mirrors ours. We loved the lower school but the middle school has been a very disappointing experience and the school admin and teachers have made it clear that they could care less. My child will be leaving for HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really think college outcomes have very little to do with which DMV-area private school a kid is in. A kid capable of getting into Yale is going to be capable of getting into Yale from Sidwell or SSSAS. A kid who really loves the College of Charleston is going to go there from NCS or Flint Hill.

With all due respect, these points are in conflict. Sure, it's true that nearly every public and private school has at least an elite handful who would do well anywhere, Yale or otherwise. And sure, maybe someone has their heart set on a school that isn't their highest ranked option. But that is very different from saying that college outcomes aren't greatly influenced by which DMV school you go to. If you are able to engage with the right admissions officers on this, you'll hear with some clarity that there is a very definitive hierachy between the top 5-10 schools in the area and others. SSSAS is not considered in the same tier, and it may not even be in the next tier. Fairly or unfairly, the rigor issue is well known and carries a reputational penalty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think college outcomes have very little to do with which DMV-area private school a kid is in. A kid capable of getting into Yale is going to be capable of getting into Yale from Sidwell or SSSAS. A kid who really loves the College of Charleston is going to go there from NCS or Flint Hill.

With all due respect, these points are in conflict. Sure, it's true that nearly every public and private school has at least an elite handful who would do well anywhere, Yale or otherwise. And sure, maybe someone has their heart set on a school that isn't their highest ranked option. But that is very different from saying that college outcomes aren't greatly influenced by which DMV school you go to. If you are able to engage with the right admissions officers on this, you'll hear with some clarity that there is a very definitive hierachy between the top 5-10 schools in the area and others. SSSAS is not considered in the same tier, and it may not even be in the next tier. Fairly or unfairly, the rigor issue is well known and carries a reputational penalty.

Among some schools. Among many of the popular schools today, I am not convinced it matters at all. SSSAS has very respectable admissions with lots going to William and Mary and Wake. And guess what, there are a lot of us who don’t want to deal with commuting to DC for many reasons. And Sidwell is a reach for almost anyone. Its first among equals. So let’s be a bit more reasonable in the comparisons. Is SSSAS a step up from Alexandria City High School? 100%. From Arlington. Yes. From Fairfax, let me tell you… yes. Not everyone is comparing to Sidwell. For many of us, Sidwell is irrelevant to the entire discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think college outcomes have very little to do with which DMV-area private school a kid is in. A kid capable of getting into Yale is going to be capable of getting into Yale from Sidwell or SSSAS. A kid who really loves the College of Charleston is going to go there from NCS or Flint Hill.

With all due respect, these points are in conflict. Sure, it's true that nearly every public and private school has at least an elite handful who would do well anywhere, Yale or otherwise. And sure, maybe someone has their heart set on a school that isn't their highest ranked option. But that is very different from saying that college outcomes aren't greatly influenced by which DMV school you go to. If you are able to engage with the right admissions officers on this, you'll hear with some clarity that there is a very definitive hierachy between the top 5-10 schools in the area and others. SSSAS is not considered in the same tier, and it may not even be in the next tier. Fairly or unfairly, the rigor issue is well known and carries a reputational penalty.

Among some schools. Among many of the popular schools today, I am not convinced it matters at all. SSSAS has very respectable admissions with lots going to William and Mary and Wake. And guess what, there are a lot of us who don’t want to deal with commuting to DC for many reasons. And Sidwell is a reach for almost anyone. Its first among equals. So let’s be a bit more reasonable in the comparisons. Is SSSAS a step up from Alexandria City High School? 100%. From Arlington. Yes. From Fairfax, let me tell you… yes. Not everyone is comparing to Sidwell. For many of us, Sidwell is irrelevant to the entire discussion.

I think you are putting Sidwell on a bit of a pedestal with that take, but agreed that the commute makes it irrelevant for a majority of parents looking at SSSAS...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think college outcomes have very little to do with which DMV-area private school a kid is in. A kid capable of getting into Yale is going to be capable of getting into Yale from Sidwell or SSSAS. A kid who really loves the College of Charleston is going to go there from NCS or Flint Hill.

With all due respect, these points are in conflict. Sure, it's true that nearly every public and private school has at least an elite handful who would do well anywhere, Yale or otherwise. And sure, maybe someone has their heart set on a school that isn't their highest ranked option. But that is very different from saying that college outcomes aren't greatly influenced by which DMV school you go to. If you are able to engage with the right admissions officers on this, you'll hear with some clarity that there is a very definitive hierachy between the top 5-10 schools in the area and others. SSSAS is not considered in the same tier, and it may not even be in the next tier. Fairly or unfairly, the rigor issue is well known and carries a reputational penalty.

Among some schools. Among many of the popular schools today, I am not convinced it matters at all. SSSAS has very respectable admissions with lots going to William and Mary and Wake. And guess what, there are a lot of us who don’t want to deal with commuting to DC for many reasons. And Sidwell is a reach for almost anyone. Its first among equals. So let’s be a bit more reasonable in the comparisons. Is SSSAS a step up from Alexandria City High School? 100%. From Arlington. Yes. From Fairfax, let me tell you… yes. Not everyone is comparing to Sidwell. For many of us, Sidwell is irrelevant to the entire discussion.

I think you are putting Sidwell on a bit of a pedestal with that take, but agreed that the commute makes it irrelevant for a majority of parents looking at SSSAS...

I mean they get about 500 applicants for maybe 20-30 Freshman spots. You do the math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think college outcomes have very little to do with which DMV-area private school a kid is in. A kid capable of getting into Yale is going to be capable of getting into Yale from Sidwell or SSSAS. A kid who really loves the College of Charleston is going to go there from NCS or Flint Hill.

With all due respect, these points are in conflict. Sure, it's true that nearly every public and private school has at least an elite handful who would do well anywhere, Yale or otherwise. And sure, maybe someone has their heart set on a school that isn't their highest ranked option. But that is very different from saying that college outcomes aren't greatly influenced by which DMV school you go to. If you are able to engage with the right admissions officers on this, you'll hear with some clarity that there is a very definitive hierachy between the top 5-10 schools in the area and others. SSSAS is not considered in the same tier, and it may not even be in the next tier. Fairly or unfairly, the rigor issue is well known and carries a reputational penalty.

Among some schools. Among many of the popular schools today, I am not convinced it matters at all. SSSAS has very respectable admissions with lots going to William and Mary and Wake. And guess what, there are a lot of us who don’t want to deal with commuting to DC for many reasons. And Sidwell is a reach for almost anyone. Its first among equals. So let’s be a bit more reasonable in the comparisons. Is SSSAS a step up from Alexandria City High School? 100%. From Arlington. Yes. From Fairfax, let me tell you… yes. Not everyone is comparing to Sidwell. For many of us, Sidwell is irrelevant to the entire discussion.

I think you are putting Sidwell on a bit of a pedestal with that take, but agreed that the commute makes it irrelevant for a majority of parents looking at SSSAS...

I mean they get about 500 applicants for maybe 20-30 Freshman spots. You do the math.

Yea, but they have 125 kids in their Freshman class... only about 300 applying in the pre-k years and ability to apply every year in between... if you truly want Sidwell... you can figure out how to get in... it's a school for children not the Olympics...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you consider rival schools?

There are plenty of rivals depending on activity but the main schools without APs that I recall are Potomac and a couple in DC and Maryland. For our family AP was a requirement so for us the non-AP oriented schools weren’t considered. Schools with APs that are typically considered rivals of SSSAS are Episcopal, BI and Flint Hill.

I’m from a former SSSAS family and posted above. When we were looking to leave, we found all the top privates had dropped AP classes. Interestingly, their students still take AP tests, and their numbers scoring 4s and 5s are much higher percentage wise than Saints kids. It took some digging to get this info from admissions departments, but across the board it was clear that the tough classes at SSSAS just didn’t hold up to those at the top privates, which all seem to offer designated honors classes instead of AP classes. I don’t recall any weighting the honors classes more to give whatever boost you are talking about?
It’s also tricky to get SSSAS to give you the full matriculation lists. They of course prefer to give you an acceptance list. Tease out the athletes (primarily girls lax bc the rest of the sports are not great and are in lower divisions), and the matriculations are pretty weak. If that’s your only goal, then just go to ACHS.

[Anonymous]

SSSAS adds weight to both honors and AP. And colleges do too— on their own. So if a kid takes an AP test without the class, that is good for the credit if they get in but their grades won’t get the boost. It’s a way of rewarding rigor. Schools without AP courses or honors courses cannot get the boost imposed by some colleges. I’m not trying to convince you to come back to SSSAS but some things you say may not be quite accurate. But if you didn’t like it, it’s good your kid is at another school. And everyone does the same acceptance list trick. Everyone. I think there are some people who got a very bad taste at SSSAS and are intent on poisoning the experience for everyone else. It’s ok if it wasn’t a fit for your kid or family. We are happy. We are happy you are happy. Leave SSSAS alone.

[Anonymous]

We had a wonderful experience at SSSAS. Our kids came from public and started in 6th. The Upper School is phenomenal- love the teachers and the warm community. Each of my kids got into his/her top college choice and look back on the SSSAS experience with gratitude. Would do it again in a heart beat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think college outcomes have very little to do with which DMV-area private school a kid is in. A kid capable of getting into Yale is going to be capable of getting into Yale from Sidwell or SSSAS. A kid who really loves the College of Charleston is going to go there from NCS or Flint Hill.

This is true; it is kid dependent. However for some reason there are more kids at a school like flint hill who live a school like the college of Charleston, than there are at ncs

Coincidence ?

I have a hard time believing there are so many fewer capable kids at an expensive school like SSSAS. I’m not buying that narrative.

Bizarre logic - there are a lot of bad expensive schools. SSSAS a local school whose student body is not remotely competitive with the top schools in the DMV. Completely different leagues.

This.