Rigor (or lack thereof) at St Stephen’s St Agnes

[Anonymous]

We currently have a kid in 5th and wondering about how long we’ll stay. I’m hearing from more and more parents that the school is not great if your child is especially bright, but it’s an awkward topic to discuss in person for obvious reasons.

Can someone who has observed this expand on it?

What I know so far is this:

Math - not even an option to do geometry in 8th grade. Honors math in 7th and 8th follows the same curriculum as non-honors, and 50% of kids take honors (which seems to me to be too high a number to mean much). Also I hear you just have to ask to have your child placed in honors, it’s not based on grades or scores.

English - there seems to be LESS writing at the middle school than in 4th or 5th grade? No essays? Little creative writing? Tests are often fill in the blank? Topic sentences are provided and required to be used (I understand offering them as kids learn to write but why not give the more advanced students more freedom)?

Science - I hear good things about HS science teachers but that MS science is entirely teacher dependent. Lots of memorizing and flash cards.

History or Social Studies - 6th grade seems to have some cool curriculum based on the silk roads. Then some 7th grade teachers are teaching things that are totally wrong (only on person in the executive branch, only the president can be impeached). I don’t know if this was one teacher or all the history teachers.

Can someone expand on this? If your kid tests 95th+ percentile, how do they find the rigor of the MS or HS? We liked that SSSAS isn’t a pressure cooker but are they meeting kids where they are?

[Anonymous]

i have multiple kids there and your take is not wrong (although I do think it's a bit harder to get into advanced math than you describe- I think they do rely on grades and ERB scores for placement, but the criteria does seem a bit arbitrary).

[Anonymous]

In high school it is different. The do placement tests for a lot of subjects. After that they track grades/GPAs to determine who can take honors and AP. I think it is quite rigorous. My child is working very hard (many hours per day) to get high grades. DC takes and plans to continue taking a full load of rigorous courses. Some children do a lighter load and take multiple study halls and don’t aim for honors. It can be very rigorous or it doesn’t have to be. Up to you and your kid.

[Anonymous]

I have a 10th grader at SSSAS (started there in HS) and have found it sufficiently challenging but not overly intense. My kid does a couple hours of homework each night. It seems manageable overall. They’re aiming for a few honors and AP classes next year but being thoughtful and intentional about it.

[Anonymous]

+1 on the PP’s statements about HS. DC (tested giftedness) has been able to get plenty of challenge taking all honors and AP classes and works hard for excellent grades. Placement into advanced classes (APs and even some honors level) requires an application or a short test as well as recommendation by the current teacher and often certain grade achievements for final exam/overall grade.

DC didn’t attend MS at SSSAS but I have heard it’s the weak link, as MS is at many k-12s. If you can hang in, the HS is great.

[Anonymous]

If DC can apply and get into a Big 3/5 that is also a good fit then there may be a step up in rigor (what abt commute?). 95%+ on testing is common at the competitive schools around here. Otherwise, SSSAS is a great place to continue on with through HS!

[Anonymous]

There are lots of AP classes and kids who do well in them that are bright. I just don’t understand why those same type of students can’t get into the same schools as a Potomac kids if they had the same APs and grades. They don’t have good SAT scores? What is it? The college outcomes are just not as good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are lots of AP classes and kids who do well in them that are bright. I just don’t understand why those same type of students can’t get into the same schools as a Potomac kids if they had the same APs and grades. They don’t have good SAT scores? What is it? The college outcomes are just not as good.

I don’t know about Potomac, but SSSAS college advising really stresses and values fit and helping students figure out what they want in a school and then finding schools that give them that. If a kid is all-in for HYPS, they’ll cheer them on and help them try to get there, but a lot of kids aren’t gunning for prestige for prestige sake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are lots of AP classes and kids who do well in them that are bright. I just don’t understand why those same type of students can’t get into the same schools as a Potomac kids if they had the same APs and grades. They don’t have good SAT scores? What is it? The college outcomes are just not as good.

They are not comparable schools. Colleges take that into account.

[Anonymous]

Based on experience with different kids, SSSAS was a less rigorous experience for my kid who went there than my younger kid's experience at a different local school. It was a fine education and she was well prepared for college but it didn't stand out.

[Anonymous]

I have had multiple kids go through SSSAS. In order to get into honors math, which starts in 7th grade, the kid needs to end 6th grade with an A- or higher and be recommended by their teacher. With my first, no one mentioned how it worked (not the teacher, not the advisor, not any admin) and suddenly I was hearing over the summer between 6th and 7th that certain kids were placed in honors math. When I asked about my child, who had an A-, I was told the teacher didn't like my kid's ERB scores but that they don't track and the kid would be eligible each year to move into honors (do not believe them when they tell you this, because it was no true). I was stupid and didn't push back and the school refused to ever place my kid in any honors math, even after placement tests for high school (they continued to discourage us). My kid graduated with a 3.9. They were being ridiculous.

I didn't make the same mistake again and with my next kid, who had excellent ERB math scores and is very good in math, and I made sure from BTSN I asked directly with the teacher what my kid needed to do to be placed in honors math in 7th and she said the A-. And by 7th my kid was in honors. That kid ended up leaving in 9th for a different high school and was placed in Algebra II for 9th after a placement test with a geometry summer school because they were accelerated. I don't know why SSSAS doesn't allow this (which seems to get to some of the OP's concern).

SSSAS is a low pressure cooker school and many people like that. If you think your child needs more challenging academic classes you are going to have to strongly and repeatedly advocate for that there. There are definitely ceilings to how high your kid can go (just because a class is listed in the high school's catalog doesn't mean the school will actually be offering it, they need a quota of eligible kids to take it, I think 5, so you can't rely on that as an option if you're planning ahead). There is also strong bias and rigidity over a kid who has been labeled not eligible, whether for ERB scores OR if the kid is seemed as difficult (and hence can't get the teacher recommendation because the teacher doesn't like or is irritated by the kid) and the school tracks (meaning you need to get into the honors track like in math as soon as you are eligible because you probably won't be let in a year or two later).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are lots of AP classes and kids who do well in them that are bright. I just don’t understand why those same type of students can’t get into the same schools as a Potomac kids if they had the same APs and grades. They don’t have good SAT scores? What is it? The college outcomes are just not as good.

Potomac will absolutely accept a kid with lower SSAT if the parents went Ivy or have another solid hook over a kid with higher SSAT and no hook. Potomac is all about the hook. Ask me how I know. Low SSAT will often mean lower SAT and during the test optional craze, that was fine. But that is ebbing and the need for high SAT or AP is surging back. Potomac’s strategy was successful when schools put emphasis on legacy and even more so during test optional. So now the legacy from UVA doesn’t matter but the SAT and APs sure do. So Potomac is absolutely doing some internal deliberations about its 9th grade admissions because it needs to get those kids into college with their low scores. If they think they can overcome mediocre grades/scores with sports, that helps. But it is true that recently it’s strategy does result in better college outcomes but not actually admission of just the brightest kids. This makes the application process to 9th very opaque because the applicant’s grades and tests aren’t the entire picture and often are just a small part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have had multiple kids go through SSSAS. In order to get into honors math, which starts in 7th grade, the kid needs to end 6th grade with an A- or higher and be recommended by their teacher. With my first, no one mentioned how it worked (not the teacher, not the advisor, not any admin) and suddenly I was hearing over the summer between 6th and 7th that certain kids were placed in honors math. When I asked about my child, who had an A-, I was told the teacher didn't like my kid's ERB scores but that they don't track and the kid would be eligible each year to move into honors (do not believe them when they tell you this, because it was no true). I was stupid and didn't push back and the school refused to ever place my kid in any honors math, even after placement tests for high school (they continued to discourage us). My kid graduated with a 3.9. They were being ridiculous.

I didn't make the same mistake again and with my next kid, who had excellent ERB math scores and is very good in math, and I made sure from BTSN I asked directly with the teacher what my kid needed to do to be placed in honors math in 7th and she said the A-. And by 7th my kid was in honors. That kid ended up leaving in 9th for a different high school and was placed in Algebra II for 9th after a placement test with a geometry summer school because they were accelerated. I don't know why SSSAS doesn't allow this (which seems to get to some of the OP's concern).

SSSAS is a low pressure cooker school and many people like that. If you think your child needs more challenging academic classes you are going to have to strongly and repeatedly advocate for that there. There are definitely ceilings to how high your kid can go (just because a class is listed in the high school's catalog doesn't mean the school will actually be offering it, they need a quota of eligible kids to take it, I think 5, so you can't rely on that as an option if you're planning ahead). There is also strong bias and rigidity over a kid who has been labeled not eligible, whether for ERB scores OR if the kid is seemed as difficult (and hence can't get the teacher recommendation because the teacher doesn't like or is irritated by the kid) and the school tracks (meaning you need to get into the honors track like in math as soon as you are eligible because you probably won't be let in a year or two later).

There is truth to this. However, if your kid does well, they can get into and recommended for the Honors or AP. If your kid doesn’t do well and you think they can just roll into an AP class because it is in the catalog, that will not happen. My child said of about 8 or 9 math or history classes in a high school grade, only 2-3 will be honors/AP. So the majority of kids aren’t in Honors/AP. This may vary by grade and options of AP expand. Frankly this tracks with my experience 30 years ago in public. Not everyone was in honors or AP. So it seems sensible to me but it does upset parents and students to be told no, you’re not honors/AP material.

[Anonymous]

I don't want to diminish your concerns - you are doing right by your kid.... but just some insight from someone who has done this dance before. We are all over thinking all of this and you don't realize that until it's practically over. Many things I fretted about - whether they worked out as I imagined or did not - never ended up mattering that much anyway.

I say all this to share that: do your research but if your kid is happy and challenged (enough) and has some nice friends... that's the BEST place one could ask for. Unless you have a baby genius on your hands... and I mean real standout - exceptional kid - none of this really matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't want to diminish your concerns - you are doing right by your kid.... but just some insight from someone who has done this dance before. We are all over thinking all of this and you don't realize that until it's practically over. Many things I fretted about - whether they worked out as I imagined or did not - never ended up mattering that much anyway.

I say all this to share that: do your research but if your kid is happy and challenged (enough) and has some nice friends... that's the BEST place one could ask for. Unless you have a baby genius on your hands... and I mean real standout - exceptional kid - none of this really matters.

I agree with this generally, but also kids have a hard time if they’re super bored. A school has to be flexible enough to challenge kids. Like OP, I have also heard of kids leaving St Stephen’s because the school / teachers just aren’t flexible enough to keep the smartest kids engaged. That’s a problem, imo.