“Affirming” church not doing it for us

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you're asking an important question and bringing up issues you are uniquely suited to call out. My friends who are looking for what you are looking for speak highly of United Methodist congregations, particularly one in Annadale, I think, I can get the exact name if you want it.
As another resource, I have been really blessed to watch some recent interviews with Dr. David Bennett who might not have the same convictions as yourself, but who is using his studies and life experience to speak specifically to more conservative congregations who need to get over thinking there's something inherently righteous about heterosexuality. I'm believing you will find a great church community as God leads you.

Fundamentalist born-again Christians (the only kind of Christian entering heaven) are not saying heterosexuality is righteous (it is just God’s natural order) but that the Bible says clearly that adultery, fornication, and homosexuality are unrighteous behavior per 1 Corinthians 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

You are deceived if you think/feel/believe that homosexuality is righteous behavior in line with God’s natural order. There is no compromise on this matter.

I do not agree with your first premise; you are not the determiner is who is going to heaven, in case that is news to you.

But your final paragraph is spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you're asking an important question and bringing up issues you are uniquely suited to call out. My friends who are looking for what you are looking for speak highly of United Methodist congregations, particularly one in Annadale, I think, I can get the exact name if you want it.
As another resource, I have been really blessed to watch some recent interviews with Dr. David Bennett who might not have the same convictions as yourself, but who is using his studies and life experience to speak specifically to more conservative congregations who need to get over thinking there's something inherently righteous about heterosexuality. I'm believing you will find a great church community as God leads you.

Fundamentalist born-again Christians (the only kind of Christian entering heaven) are not saying heterosexuality is righteous (it is just God’s natural order) but that the Bible says clearly that adultery, fornication, and homosexuality are unrighteous behavior per 1 Corinthians 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

You are deceived if you think/feel/believe that homosexuality is righteous behavior in line with God’s natural order. There is no compromise on this matter.

I do not agree with your first premise; you are not the determiner is who is going to heaven, in case that is news to you.

But your final paragraph is spot on.

Jesus declared in John 3:3 who was going to heaven:

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[Anonymous]

This thread has “affirmed” for me that I don’t want my family anywhere near a Christian church. Lot of smug a*holes on here. I think we’ll settle for being good for goodness sake, love our neighbors as ourselves, and put our trust in science and humanity rather than Stone Age superstition.

OP - you’re better off joining a secular community organization than any of these churches. Do something to actually add some good to the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has “affirmed” for me that I don’t want my family anywhere near a Christian church. Lot of smug a*holes on here. I think we’ll settle for being good for goodness sake, love our neighbors as ourselves, and put our trust in science and humanity rather than Stone Age superstition.

OP - you’re better off joining a secular community organization than any of these churches. Do something to actually add some good to the world.

OP sounds lovely, and drawn to the Catholic church -- just unsure if there is really a place for her and her partner.

OP, I hope you find a wonderful, progressive Catholic church. You don't have to agree with everything. Chances are, the priests don't, either. But the ritual and the community can be really great. I think I know what you're saying -- that in the "affirming" churches, everything gets argued to death and it becomes more about the virtue signaling than the actual kindness/charity aspect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you're asking an important question and bringing up issues you are uniquely suited to call out. My friends who are looking for what you are looking for speak highly of United Methodist congregations, particularly one in Annadale, I think, I can get the exact name if you want it.
As another resource, I have been really blessed to watch some recent interviews with Dr. David Bennett who might not have the same convictions as yourself, but who is using his studies and life experience to speak specifically to more conservative congregations who need to get over thinking there's something inherently righteous about heterosexuality. I'm believing you will find a great church community as God leads you.

Fundamentalist born-again Christians (the only kind of Christian entering heaven) are not saying heterosexuality is righteous (it is just God’s natural order) but that the Bible says clearly that adultery, fornication, and homosexuality are unrighteous behavior per 1 Corinthians 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

You are deceived if you think/feel/believe that homosexuality is righteous behavior in line with God’s natural order. There is no compromise on this matter.

And yet there you are singling out homosexuality among a long list of behaviors exhibited by pretty much all of humanity in one way or another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whoa OP, I was going to say you shouldn't write off entire denominations after visiting one church, the community and emphasis of Episcopalians (or any other) can vary hugely from one congregation to the next so you might find a better fit.

But I see above that you want a church that's accepting of gay but not trans people? Good luck with that.

That’s reductive and not at all what I’m saying.
It’s not about being “accepting”. It’s about adopting specific beliefs not tied to scripture. Scripture does not support the existence of a more than 2 sexes, and it also doesn’t support same sex marriage. That doesn’t mean we cannot be compassionate and welcoming to people who experience same sex attraction or do not conform to male or female stereotypes in some way. I don’t have all the answers, but there needs to be some room for people to exist and be welcomed in community without simply adopting the exact current progressive ideologies.

I guess I'd ask what about the Catholic Church makes you feel like you can't exist there in precisely this way, then?

It doesn’t, necessarily. My aunt who is divorced, has friends in her congregation who are gay. It’s more the uncertainty of knowing how to fit in. I have visited multiple Catholic churches in NoVa and they are definitely not all the same.
Most if not all of the gay Catholics we know were raised Catholic. I don’t know any gay people who converted to Catholicism.

Ah...yeah. I encountered this issue in college - I'm not gay but I don't agree with the Catholic church's theology of sexuality more broadly. The problem is, tons of cradle Catholics don't either, but they're already members so they make their own peace. You can't do that as a convert. You have to affirmatively sign on to everything to become Catholic. If you actually DO agree that any kind of sexual relationship you might have as a gay person is simple, you can do that...but do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you're asking an important question and bringing up issues you are uniquely suited to call out. My friends who are looking for what you are looking for speak highly of United Methodist congregations, particularly one in Annadale, I think, I can get the exact name if you want it.
As another resource, I have been really blessed to watch some recent interviews with Dr. David Bennett who might not have the same convictions as yourself, but who is using his studies and life experience to speak specifically to more conservative congregations who need to get over thinking there's something inherently righteous about heterosexuality. I'm believing you will find a great church community as God leads you.

Fundamentalist born-again Christians (the only kind of Christian entering heaven) are not saying heterosexuality is righteous (it is just God’s natural order) but that the Bible says clearly that adultery, fornication, and homosexuality are unrighteous behavior per 1 Corinthians 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

You are deceived if you think/feel/believe that homosexuality is righteous behavior in line with God’s natural order. There is no compromise on this matter.

And yet there you are singling out homosexuality among a long list of behaviors exhibited by pretty much all of humanity in one way or another.

It was so singled out because false teachers in the church are declaring homosexuality to be normal and not a sin, even saying God made people gay when he did no such thing, any more than God created adulterers, liars, thieves, and drunkards: it is acquired behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you're asking an important question and bringing up issues you are uniquely suited to call out. My friends who are looking for what you are looking for speak highly of United Methodist congregations, particularly one in Annadale, I think, I can get the exact name if you want it.
As another resource, I have been really blessed to watch some recent interviews with Dr. David Bennett who might not have the same convictions as yourself, but who is using his studies and life experience to speak specifically to more conservative congregations who need to get over thinking there's something inherently righteous about heterosexuality. I'm believing you will find a great church community as God leads you.

Fundamentalist born-again Christians (the only kind of Christian entering heaven) are not saying heterosexuality is righteous (it is just God’s natural order) but that the Bible says clearly that adultery, fornication, and homosexuality are unrighteous behavior per 1 Corinthians 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

You are deceived if you think/feel/believe that homosexuality is righteous behavior in line with God’s natural order. There is no compromise on this matter.

I do not agree with your first premise; you are not the determiner is who is going to heaven, in case that is news to you.

But your final paragraph is spot on.

Many Christians point out that this passage from Corinthians is from Paul's letters to them. And Paul is not Jesus, in case that needs to be spelled out. We don't have any record of what Jesus said about homosexuality (or about abortion either).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has “affirmed” for me that I don’t want my family anywhere near a Christian church. Lot of smug a*holes on here. I think we’ll settle for being good for goodness sake, love our neighbors as ourselves, and put our trust in science and humanity rather than Stone Age superstition.

OP - you’re better off joining a secular community organization than any of these churches. Do something to actually add some good to the world.

Oh goody, the bigots have entered the chat, to talk about themselves and try to change the subject to how everyone should abandon faith.

OP, you probably already know what pp doesn't know: Paul's letters to the Corinthians aren't gospel, that is, they're not the same as if Jesus said it. Jesus isn't recorded as having talked about homosexuality. Yes, some churches take Paul's letters literally, but many don't (Episcopal, for one). My understanding is that some Catholic priests don't take Paul literally either, regardless of what's being sent down by Rome, although Catholics here would be able to speak to that better than me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe lutheran? Faith lutheran in Arlington might work.

+1

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you want Episcopalian OP, perhaps you haven't tried the right church yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in a different area but really enjoy our Methodist church. I grew up Presbyterian and even in the 90s it was very political. Our Methodist church is open and affirming but sticks more to religious topics and has a congregation with varying political beliefs (though I doubt any maga types). Our prior church was the same, so I wonder if Methodist churches generally might be a fit.

I’ve never understood the point of looking for churches that are a “fit.” You’re not trying on skirts.

OP pray that God leads you to a church that is Biblically based, one that will welcome you with open arms as they do all of us as sinners, and have as their mission pointing people to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everything else will fall into place.

Yeah, you aren't "trying on skirts." But you are joining a community. So there is even more reason, than with trying on clothing, to get a good "fit."

Disagree. “Community” is your neighborhood or country club. A church should be where you find, serve and hear the word of God, above all.

What do you think finding, serving, and hearing the word of God looks like? You don't do it in a vacuum.

That’s correct. But to require that all of the people in this community look and think like you, so that you are always “comfortable” with the “fit” is the opposite of Christian thought.

No one is saying that. DH and I always say we wish we were Catholic, since there is such great community infrastructure, our siblings and best friends are all Catholic, etc. But we just don't believe in Catholicism. We also don't believe the bible is literal and inerrant. So that leaves us with mainline denominations, which for us means about 15 churches within a 20 minute drive. At that point, it makes sense to look for a good fit- do they have good children's programming? Are there a lot of families? Are they more/less liturgical? Is it an environment that helps you feel closer to God? (We tried one church that had hard rock music and strobe lights and was not for us)

The Catholic Church does not teach that the Bible should be read literally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has “affirmed” for me that I don’t want my family anywhere near a Christian church. Lot of smug a*holes on here. I think we’ll settle for being good for goodness sake, love our neighbors as ourselves, and put our trust in science and humanity rather than Stone Age superstition.

OP - you’re better off joining a secular community organization than any of these churches. Do something to actually add some good to the world.

To this person — I am not going to get into what each person responded said. I do wish that you would hear the true Christian Gospel without any of the extra commentary. Here’s my attempt:

The reality is — no matter how “good” each of us tries to act — we constantly fall short. Loving your neighbor as yourself is great in theory — except try doing it for a day or even a morning. When your spouse annoys you or your boss ticks you off or your kids are nasty to you or something else goes wrong — the theory immediately goes out the window. You don’t love other people as yourself. And that’s when you’re not at fault. There are plenty of times when our own selfish hearts and behaviors do in fact hurt other people. We are angry or mean or greedy or arrogant or rude to other people and say afterwards “Why did I do that?!” People who can’t admit this about themselves are not being honest about their own flaws.

Thankfully, we aren’t expected to be perfect. Rather, Jesus lived the perfect life for us and we get his perfect record before God simply through faith in him. Nothing else. Life isn’t this rat race of working really hard to do “good” — though after you understand and appreciate the magnitude of what Jesus did for you, it inevitably changes the way you live your life. My life changed dramatically after I found Jesus — not because I was doing things to “avoid hell” or to be a “good person” but because I proactively wanted to reflect love back to Jesus. The changes are gradual and usually don’t happen instantly. I am very much a work in progress. It is a life long journey as you walk in a new identity and a new self.

This is the heart and essence of Christianity. The end result is that if you truly understand Christianity, it makes you humble and affirmed at the same time. Humble because you are not better than anyone else. Affirmed because the only two eyes in the universe that matter see you to the bottom and love you to the moon. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

I’m sorry that so many people responding to this thread have misrepresented it or taken you down side roads that are not the Gospel. It’s also sad how so many purported Christians do not grasp what the faith actually says.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has “affirmed” for me that I don’t want my family anywhere near a Christian church. Lot of smug a*holes on here. I think we’ll settle for being good for goodness sake, love our neighbors as ourselves, and put our trust in science and humanity rather than Stone Age superstition.

OP - you’re better off joining a secular community organization than any of these churches. Do something to actually add some good to the world.

To this person — I am not going to get into what each person responded said. I do wish that you would hear the true Christian Gospel without any of the extra commentary. Here’s my attempt:

The reality is — no matter how “good” each of us tries to act — we constantly fall short. Loving your neighbor as yourself is great in theory — except try doing it for a day or even a morning. When your spouse annoys you or your boss ticks you off or your kids are nasty to you or something else goes wrong — the theory immediately goes out the window. You don’t love other people as yourself. And that’s when you’re not at fault. There are plenty of times when our own selfish hearts and behaviors do in fact hurt other people. We are angry or mean or greedy or arrogant or rude to other people and say afterwards “Why did I do that?!” People who can’t admit this about themselves are not being honest about their own flaws.

Thankfully, we aren’t expected to be perfect. Rather, Jesus lived the perfect life for us and we get his perfect record before God simply through faith in him. Nothing else. Life isn’t this rat race of working really hard to do “good” — though after you understand and appreciate the magnitude of what Jesus did for you, it inevitably changes the way you live your life. My life changed dramatically after I found Jesus — not because I was doing things to “avoid hell” or to be a “good person” but because I proactively wanted to reflect love back to Jesus. The changes are gradual and usually don’t happen instantly. I am very much a work in progress. It is a life long journey as you walk in a new identity and a new self.

This is the heart and essence of Christianity. The end result is that if you truly understand Christianity, it makes you humble and affirmed at the same time. Humble because you are not better than anyone else. Affirmed because the only two eyes in the universe that matter see you to the bottom and love you to the moon. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

I’m sorry that so many people responding to this thread have misrepresented it or taken you down side roads that are not the Gospel. It’s also sad how so many purported Christians do not grasp what the faith actually says.

DP. This is beautiful, pp. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has “affirmed” for me that I don’t want my family anywhere near a Christian church. Lot of smug a*holes on here. I think we’ll settle for being good for goodness sake, love our neighbors as ourselves, and put our trust in science and humanity rather than Stone Age superstition.

OP - you’re better off joining a secular community organization than any of these churches. Do something to actually add some good to the world.

What secular community organizations do you have in mind? Somehow I don't think the smell of bowling alley oil is what OP is looking for.