The value of “women’s work”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work a very part time job so I can be the primary parent in my household. I also do the vast majority of housework and family admin.

I do think my spouse and kids deeply value the unpaid work I do.

I do not think SOCIETY values the work I do.

If I'm society, I certainly do. Not that any of my SAHM neighbors owe anyone any help. They don't owe their neighbors anything. But, when they go to the store, they ask a group of us full time working moms if we need anything. If we run out of anything, they offer it. Sometimes they give my kids a ride. Not because I ask them but because they can and it's convenient enough for them in the moment. I try not to take advantage of the offers too often because I need to be able to handle my life but it's very appreciated.

A lot of the problem is built into institutions. There are often assumptions that a SAHM or a mom not working full time is available to make other people's lives easier. The SAHM might actually have more on her plate than others, but because her work is unpaid, there is a presumption that it's not important, can be rescheduled, or should not be prioritized.

It's also frustrating to be seen, always, as someone who is available to help others, but other people never view themselves as having any obligation to help you. So there's an assumption that SAHMs always have the freedom to help with pick up and drop off, or volunteer at school, or reschedule something last minute. Meanwhile when I was recovering from surgery, my spouse and I had to muddle through with no help for two weeks and peopel assumed it was fine because I'm "just" a SAHM so the things I do day to day couldn't matter that much, right?

People assume I have an easy life. But my life is no easier than most working moms, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Women's work" is obviously valuable, but that article from Fortune is ridiculous click bait. It claims that childcare must be no more than 7% of a couple's income to be considered affordable. That's a totally arbitrary metric.

Right! 7% of 50k HHI is a lot, but 7% of 250k is very reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work a very part time job so I can be the primary parent in my household. I also do the vast majority of housework and family admin.

I do think my spouse and kids deeply value the unpaid work I do.

I do not think SOCIETY values the work I do.

If I'm society, I certainly do. Not that any of my SAHM neighbors owe anyone any help. They don't owe their neighbors anything. But, when they go to the store, they ask a group of us full time working moms if we need anything. If we run out of anything, they offer it. Sometimes they give my kids a ride. Not because I ask them but because they can and it's convenient enough for them in the moment. I try not to take advantage of the offers too often because I need to be able to handle my life but it's very appreciated.

That's odd. My neighborhood everybody helps everybody. It's not the SAHM's doing more of the help. When my neighbor's H got very ill the SAHM's had kids to watch and nobody to help with their kids, but the working moms could adjust their schedule or take leave to help out. The SAHM's could leave their kids with our nanny if they needed to run an errand or volunteer at school and of course would be very thankful and try to return the favor (not that I believe in returning a favor, it's a favor).

Also the SAHM's would help out where and when they could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hate to make this devolve into some trite commentary, but these sorts of exercises are humiliating for stay at home parents. The worst are the instagram videos of the SAHM's that are trying to show how difficult their lives are, and then show them taking their kids to school, grocery shopping, cleaning their home, preparing meals. Imagine doing all of that plus an outside job!

The people making those videos are Instagram influencers. That's not your typical SAHM. I've never seen someone make one of those videos and include the stuff a lot of SAHMs I know do. They are all 20-something SAHMs with small children living in huge houses. Half the time the video will include crap like their 40 minute beauty routine or multiple workouts. This is not the life of the average SAHM.

Here's stuff a lot of SAHMs I know do that never makes it in an Instagram reel: elder care, caring for kids with SNs, dealing with their own chronic health issues. Many people become SAHMs because there are things going on in their life that make it hard-to-impossible to maintain a full time job on top of everything else. Stuff you don't have to deal with and should be glad you don't have to deal with.

Other women become SAHMs or switch to part time or freelance work because their spouse, who is the higher earner (or who simply refuses to share primary parenting duties), has a job that makes it impractical for the mom to have a regular job. The most obvious one here are military spouses but there are plenty of other people in this boat, including many who don't have some high earning spouse making life as a SAHM easier. My spouse's job means he's unavailable to help with almost any parenting 3 days a week. When we first had a baby, it was 5 days a week. I actually did try to keep working in a regular job initially, but it was a hellish existence where I felt incredibly isolated, constantly exhausted, and wound up hating both work and parenting. Leaving that job let me at least enjoy some aspects of parenting, feel better about the quality of care my kids were getting, and address some of my own mental health needs. Now I work part time and I don't feel my life is any easier or more relaxed than someone working full time but with a more present partner or more help at home. Everyone's life is set up differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work a very part time job so I can be the primary parent in my household. I also do the vast majority of housework and family admin.

I do think my spouse and kids deeply value the unpaid work I do.

I do not think SOCIETY values the work I do.

If I'm society, I certainly do. Not that any of my SAHM neighbors owe anyone any help. They don't owe their neighbors anything. But, when they go to the store, they ask a group of us full time working moms if we need anything. If we run out of anything, they offer it. Sometimes they give my kids a ride. Not because I ask them but because they can and it's convenient enough for them in the moment. I try not to take advantage of the offers too often because I need to be able to handle my life but it's very appreciated.

That's odd. My neighborhood everybody helps everybody. It's not the SAHM's doing more of the help. When my neighbor's H got very ill the SAHM's had kids to watch and nobody to help with their kids, but the working moms could adjust their schedule or take leave to help out. The SAHM's could leave their kids with our nanny if they needed to run an errand or volunteer at school and of course would be very thankful and try to return the favor (not that I believe in returning a favor, it's a favor).

Also the SAHM's would help out where and when they could.

Yeah, I never said this wasn’t the case. You’re looking for something that isn’t there. It definitely a mutual situation. But I’m not able to ask if anyone wants anything at the store at 11am on a Tuesday. That is much appreciated.

I can still contribute to the community while appreciating others at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hate to make this devolve into some trite commentary, but these sorts of exercises are humiliating for stay at home parents. The worst are the instagram videos of the SAHM's that are trying to show how difficult their lives are, and then show them taking their kids to school, grocery shopping, cleaning their home, preparing meals. Imagine doing all of that plus an outside job!

The people making those videos are Instagram influencers. That's not your typical SAHM. I've never seen someone make one of those videos and include the stuff a lot of SAHMs I know do. They are all 20-something SAHMs with small children living in huge houses. Half the time the video will include crap like their 40 minute beauty routine or multiple workouts. This is not the life of the average SAHM.

Here's stuff a lot of SAHMs I know do that never makes it in an Instagram reel: elder care, caring for kids with SNs, dealing with their own chronic health issues. Many people become SAHMs because there are things going on in their life that make it hard-to-impossible to maintain a full time job on top of everything else. Stuff you don't have to deal with and should be glad you don't have to deal with.

Other women become SAHMs or switch to part time or freelance work because their spouse, who is the higher earner (or who simply refuses to share primary parenting duties), has a job that makes it impractical for the mom to have a regular job. The most obvious one here are military spouses but there are plenty of other people in this boat, including many who don't have some high earning spouse making life as a SAHM easier. My spouse's job means he's unavailable to help with almost any parenting 3 days a week. When we first had a baby, it was 5 days a week. I actually did try to keep working in a regular job initially, but it was a hellish existence where I felt incredibly isolated, constantly exhausted, and wound up hating both work and parenting. Leaving that job let me at least enjoy some aspects of parenting, feel better about the quality of care my kids were getting, and address some of my own mental health needs. Now I work part time and I don't feel my life is any easier or more relaxed than someone working full time but with a more present partner or more help at home. Everyone's life is set up differently.

I don't disagree with anything you've written here. Of course there are lots of reasons someone decides to be a stay at home parent, and I don't have any right to judge any of them. But all of these efforts to show us just how hard it is to be a SAHM and that it is JUST AS HARD as the parents with outside jobs is too much for me. Again, as a working parent, I still have to deal with all of these things too. I just have a job on top of it. (One of my children is SN, for example, and my husband and I do a lot of the volunteering for Scouts, sports, etc). I'm exhausted! But I'm not looking for extra kudos or validation (which is what these articles are screaming for).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work a very part time job so I can be the primary parent in my household. I also do the vast majority of housework and family admin.

I do think my spouse and kids deeply value the unpaid work I do.

I do not think SOCIETY values the work I do.

If I'm society, I certainly do. Not that any of my SAHM neighbors owe anyone any help. They don't owe their neighbors anything. But, when they go to the store, they ask a group of us full time working moms if we need anything. If we run out of anything, they offer it. Sometimes they give my kids a ride. Not because I ask them but because they can and it's convenient enough for them in the moment. I try not to take advantage of the offers too often because I need to be able to handle my life but it's very appreciated.

This is interested. I find the SAHMs never offer help and often act put out when I ask for it. Mind you, any time I am in a position to do the carpool, buy the snacks, help out in a crunch, I do it so I can build up the goodwill credit when I inevitably need help. Most working parents are like this. But the SAHMs I know are the exact opposite - and perhaps its a condition they've learned because they've been taken advantage of in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Weird metric. Saying that a family making $400k can only spend $28k/year on childcare or it's unaffordable is silly.

It is not silly. There has always been some conventional wisdom and economic percentages in personal finance about "affordability" to have a balanced life in all stages of life.

So, 7% of gross salary for childcare, a limit of 3x the gross salary for buying a house you can afford, saving 25-30% of your gross salary for retirement before 65...these have been rules of thumb.

But, but, but - we all are feeling the stretch because housing is no longer cheap. We also went ~4x our gross income when we bought our house 28 yrs ago. We were making 75K and our house cost 290K. So it was a stretch and we had to tighten our belts. Same goes for childcare. 7% is manageable because in the same salary you are also paying for your home, retirement, college, medical insurance, taxes, savings, education, daily living etc.

Unfortunately, since it is not only childcare which is expensive but everything else people are really in a bind. My niece is paying 25K for sending her 3 yr old to preschool. 1/2 the time that kid is sick for days from germs caught in school and then spreads it to mom, dad, sibling... it is an untenable situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weird metric. Saying that a family making $400k can only spend $28k/year on childcare or it's unaffordable is silly.

It is not silly. There has always been some conventional wisdom and economic percentages in personal finance about "affordability" to have a balanced life in all stages of life.

So, 7% of gross salary for childcare, a limit of 3x the gross salary for buying a house you can afford, saving 25-30% of your gross salary for retirement before 65...these have been rules of thumb.

But, but, but - we all are feeling the stretch because housing is no longer cheap. We also went ~4x our gross income when we bought our house 28 yrs ago. We were making 75K and our house cost 290K. So it was a stretch and we had to tighten our belts. Same goes for childcare. 7% is manageable because in the same salary you are also paying for your home, retirement, college, medical insurance, taxes, savings, education, daily living etc.

Unfortunately, since it is not only childcare which is expensive but everything else people are really in a bind. My niece is paying 25K for sending her 3 yr old to preschool. 1/2 the time that kid is sick for days from germs caught in school and then spreads it to mom, dad, sibling... it is an untenable situation.

I pay 25k for each of my kids. It's pretty common. I'm actually at a "cheap daycare". Many daycares are up to $600 a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work a very part time job so I can be the primary parent in my household. I also do the vast majority of housework and family admin.

I do think my spouse and kids deeply value the unpaid work I do.

I do not think SOCIETY values the work I do.

I work ft but flexible job and honestly I don't think my family values it in a true way. Yes, they'll say thanks for food and things like that, but there is zero respect for mental space for me: I am constantly asked all the time about this and that problem so I never have peace, and I carry 3 people's needs at all times on top of my own. Just now dh asked me advice about his work, for something critical. He was upset when I told him that was way too big a thing for me to help out with. Yesterday I had just finished work and dd called to ask me for input on something, day before I had a stressful day and ds is the one who kept having questions. It's not just the physical labor, I can handle that. The mental is crushing and if I don't do it they absolutely resent me and think I am being selfish if I don't help. Then dh thinks I am too stressed out and serious and need to relax.

This is just called adulthood. Find a way to manage your stress better.