Medical School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

That depends what you mean by not a super star. Not top 10% in a public high school or not top25% in a good private? All of those schools will likely be too hard to stand out against peers.
Struggled with AP chem, AP calc or AP bio, AP physics C? Those should all be 5s or mostly 5s to be able to compete at ivies. Uva will have an easier peer group to compete against for grades but it could be tough if not focused with good study habits. Premed requires focus and study to get the grades needed.
If the 1530 was one sitting and no extra time that is a good indication mcat will be easily within range for success, likely 515+.

1430 one sitting no extra time is around the score that corresponds to a 510+, the minimum needed for an unhooked med applicant to MD schools in the US with presumed good gpa.

1530 one sitting, self study.
Top 10% public.

APs: all 5s, one 4.

1530 one sitting, all 5s one 4 in stem means they are smart enough to go anywhere. So what do you mean by "good not a great student" exactly? I suspect grades not as good as could be? Unless they are at a super competitive private high school that has 30% of the class get into ivy+, Cornell and Duke will not be an option with subpar grades, they will not get in! If your kid is hooked and somehow gets in, they do have the smarts with those scores but would they have the discipline to compete with all of the students who had no trouble getting As in high school and have similar scores as yours, and use their free time to knock out research, clinical hours and volunteering? Pick wisely for premed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

get in to all three first

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

Ok, I will bite.

Among the three, Duke no brainer.
You can do it at Cornell, but it only makes it a lot more difficult. Premed is already a stressful process, it's not necessary to make it more complicated.
UVA is not particularly know for premed, acceptance rate to medical school is not comparable to Duke.

Uhhhh….uva has a medical school, teaching hospital with opportunities for clinical hours, and ample opportunities for research. Many students are pre-med there. As a parent of one, I have sat through several sessions and seen percentages of med school acceptances. It was close to the national average range after a gap year. Without a gap year, the percentage was lower but I think that’s to be expected.

After a gap year, med school acceptances from UVA are between 50-60%, higher than national average. It was lower without the gap year, but with it, most students are very successful.

This is miserable. A good premed program should have > 80% acceptance rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

That depends what you mean by not a super star. Not top 10% in a public high school or not top25% in a good private? All of those schools will likely be too hard to stand out against peers.
Struggled with AP chem, AP calc or AP bio, AP physics C? Those should all be 5s or mostly 5s to be able to compete at ivies. Uva will have an easier peer group to compete against for grades but it could be tough if not focused with good study habits. Premed requires focus and study to get the grades needed.
If the 1530 was one sitting and no extra time that is a good indication mcat will be easily within range for success, likely 515+.

1430 one sitting no extra time is around the score that corresponds to a 510+, the minimum needed for an unhooked med applicant to MD schools in the US with presumed good gpa.

1530 one sitting, self study.
Top 10% public.

APs: all 5s, one 4.

1530 one sitting, all 5s one 4 in stem means they are smart enough to go anywhere. So what do you mean by "good not a great student" exactly? I suspect grades not as good as could be? Unless they are at a super competitive private high school that has 30% of the class get into ivy+, Cornell and Duke will not be an option with subpar grades, they will not get in! If your kid is hooked and somehow gets in, they do have the smarts with those scores but would they have the discipline to compete with all of the students who had no trouble getting As in high school and have similar scores as yours, and use their free time to knock out research, clinical hours and volunteering? Pick wisely for premed.

Not good meaning still has to study a lot. Not getting the 7-8 hour daily sleep needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which is the best route to Med school a SLAC, Mid, or large?

Top30 private or public with a med school on or close to campus, ideally one where the median in Stem classes is a B+ or A-, as long as the prospective student has the skills to be top half or better. SLACs in the Top10-13 range can be good if med school is close enough.

For top students go to an ivy/elite with a med school on or close to campus. Those schools place the largest portion of applicants into T20 med, necessary for targeting certain subspecialties. These schools also have below-average (3.5-3.6) students get in to medical school in the US all the time.

Basically all of this is wrong. But what is especially wrong is that not being at a T20 med school will rule you out of some subspecialties.

True. I know several from vcu who matched into dermatology vs Harvard. The step scores and class rank are the most crucial. Fit is also important, hence why EP and orthopedic surgery are full of bro, lacrosse type entitled a**es.

Why bro and lacrosse type more fitting for EP and orthopedic surgery?

They tend to attract bros who are adrenaline junkies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

That depends what you mean by not a super star. Not top 10% in a public high school or not top25% in a good private? All of those schools will likely be too hard to stand out against peers.
Struggled with AP chem, AP calc or AP bio, AP physics C? Those should all be 5s or mostly 5s to be able to compete at ivies. Uva will have an easier peer group to compete against for grades but it could be tough if not focused with good study habits. Premed requires focus and study to get the grades needed.
If the 1530 was one sitting and no extra time that is a good indication mcat will be easily within range for success, likely 515+.

1430 one sitting no extra time is around the score that corresponds to a 510+, the minimum needed for an unhooked med applicant to MD schools in the US with presumed good gpa.

1530 one sitting, self study.
Top 10% public.

APs: all 5s, one 4.

1530 one sitting, all 5s one 4 in stem means they are smart enough to go anywhere. So what do you mean by "good not a great student" exactly? I suspect grades not as good as could be? Unless they are at a super competitive private high school that has 30% of the class get into ivy+, Cornell and Duke will not be an option with subpar grades, they will not get in! If your kid is hooked and somehow gets in, they do have the smarts with those scores but would they have the discipline to compete with all of the students who had no trouble getting As in high school and have similar scores as yours, and use their free time to knock out research, clinical hours and volunteering? Pick wisely for premed.

Not good meaning still has to study a lot. Not getting the 7-8 hour daily sleep needed.

Do they study a lot and get all As, or some Bs in there? Are they top 5% of the public or top 15% of private? What AP sciences did they take? What stem courses does the high school offer that they skipped?
To be honest, I do not know how you can tell for sure how they will do. DC is a premed BME at an ivy with a med school, had much higher SAT one sitting and was the top kid in high school, did every hard stem AP, got 5s without tons of work and frankly found the courses easy compared to college They had plenty of time for sleep in high school. They still sleep but less, to keep their super high 3.94 GPA and do the other things, manage it all fairly well.
Freshman year there were many who had As from typical high schools, did not take all of the most challenging stem in HS but had 5s in calc BC and Bio, then struggled to get the average in calc, chem at the ivy, O-chem and physics got worse for them. Some are not ready for the competition and they were TOP students at their high school, thought high school was easy and got crushed. It depends on the high school. Most of the TJ, Stuy, rigorous private top kids felt quite well prepared. Maybe your student should ask other premed students who went to ivies or duke from their high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

Ok, I will bite.

Among the three, Duke no brainer.
You can do it at Cornell, but it only makes it a lot more difficult. Premed is already a stressful process, it's not necessary to make it more complicated.
UVA is not particularly know for premed, acceptance rate to medical school is not comparable to Duke.

Feeder rates mean nothing. Williams has a great rate because they cherry pick to support only a handful. So if your kid gets a B+ in orgo during freshman year, they get zero support and kill all their chances. It's better to go to a school that supports all with research opportunities and recommendations, not everyone should be groomed for md PhD at hopkins. UVA is great and their gap program has pretty much guaranteed admission.
VT has also a surprisingly strong program with ties for research at the NIH, which is a strong boost in admission.
My kid went to an Ivy because they were strong legacies and grandparents paid, but if medicine is the goal and finances are important, the flagship state school is as good.

100% not true regarding Williams. Williams actually points out that Williams grad with an B+ overall in the sciences and a 510 MCAT has an 80% chance of getting into a med school. They completely refute what you say on their own web site. Neither Amherst nor Middlebury withhold committee recommendations from any student as long as they complete the requirements. Amherst specifically points out that one should not worry about a B or two in a core class as long as it was early, you maintain a 3.4 plus science gpa, and show strength in later years.

You pretty much outed yourself as someone biased against SLACs and it bothers you that the top SLACs consistently outperform virtually anyone. Nobody is making you attend one. Facts are friendly and there is no need to make up stuff that can be refuted with a quick internet check. It just makes you look small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

Ok, I will bite.

Among the three, Duke no brainer.
You can do it at Cornell, but it only makes it a lot more difficult. Premed is already a stressful process, it's not necessary to make it more complicated.
UVA is not particularly know for premed, acceptance rate to medical school is not comparable to Duke.

Uhhhh….uva has a medical school, teaching hospital with opportunities for clinical hours, and ample opportunities for research. Many students are pre-med there. As a parent of one, I have sat through several sessions and seen percentages of med school acceptances. It was close to the national average range after a gap year. Without a gap year, the percentage was lower but I think that’s to be expected.

After a gap year, med school acceptances from UVA are between 50-60%, higher than national average. It was lower without the gap year, but with it, most students are very successful.

This is miserable. A good premed program should have > 80% acceptance rate.

Is that UVA data recent? That is lower than I have heard. Maybe it is because it is for gap year students and for non-gap year kids it is more like 80-90?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

Ok, I will bite.

Among the three, Duke no brainer.
You can do it at Cornell, but it only makes it a lot more difficult. Premed is already a stressful process, it's not necessary to make it more complicated.
UVA is not particularly know for premed, acceptance rate to medical school is not comparable to Duke.

Feeder rates mean nothing. Williams has a great rate because they cherry pick to support only a handful. So if your kid gets a B+ in orgo during freshman year, they get zero support and kill all their chances. It's better to go to a school that supports all with research opportunities and recommendations, not everyone should be groomed for md PhD at hopkins. UVA is great and their gap program has pretty much guaranteed admission.
VT has also a surprisingly strong program with ties for research at the NIH, which is a strong boost in admission.
My kid went to an Ivy because they were strong legacies and grandparents paid, but if medicine is the goal and finances are important, the flagship state school is as good.

100% not true regarding Williams. Williams actually points out that Williams grad with an B+ overall in the sciences and a 510 MCAT has an 80% chance of getting into a med school. They completely refute what you say on their own web site. Neither Amherst nor Middlebury withhold committee recommendations from any student as long as they complete the requirements. Amherst specifically points out that one should not worry about a B or two in a core class as long as it was early, you maintain a 3.4 plus science gpa, and show strength in later years.

You pretty much outed yourself as someone biased against SLACs and it bothers you that the top SLACs consistently outperform virtually anyone. Nobody is making you attend one. Facts are friendly and there is no need to make up stuff that can be refuted with a quick internet check. It just makes you look small.

Strong agree. Top SLACs are just as good as elite unis for getting in. None of these places gatekeep anymore. They would suggest a gap year or two if the GPA is lower but gatekeeping and blocking apps is not done, even by clemson, auburn, lower ranked schools. There are mcat/gpa tables on my kid’s ivy student site and it is similar to what you post for williams. The ivy/elites including the top SLACs are way above the national average admission tables that Amcas publishes for gpa vs Mcat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

That depends what you mean by not a super star. Not top 10% in a public high school or not top25% in a good private? All of those schools will likely be too hard to stand out against peers.
Struggled with AP chem, AP calc or AP bio, AP physics C? Those should all be 5s or mostly 5s to be able to compete at ivies. Uva will have an easier peer group to compete against for grades but it could be tough if not focused with good study habits. Premed requires focus and study to get the grades needed.
If the 1530 was one sitting and no extra time that is a good indication mcat will be easily within range for success, likely 515+.

1430 one sitting no extra time is around the score that corresponds to a 510+, the minimum needed for an unhooked med applicant to MD schools in the US with presumed good gpa.

1530 one sitting, self study.
Top 10% public.

APs: all 5s, one 4.

1530 one sitting, all 5s one 4 in stem means they are smart enough to go anywhere. So what do you mean by "good not a great student" exactly? I suspect grades not as good as could be? Unless they are at a super competitive private high school that has 30% of the class get into ivy+, Cornell and Duke will not be an option with subpar grades, they will not get in! If your kid is hooked and somehow gets in, they do have the smarts with those scores but would they have the discipline to compete with all of the students who had no trouble getting As in high school and have similar scores as yours, and use their free time to knock out research, clinical hours and volunteering? Pick wisely for premed.

Not good meaning still has to study a lot. Not getting the 7-8 hour daily sleep needed.

Do they study a lot and get all As, or some Bs in there? Are they top 5% of the public or top 15% of private? What AP sciences did they take? What stem courses does the high school offer that they skipped?
To be honest, I do not know how you can tell for sure how they will do. DC is a premed BME at an ivy with a med school, had much higher SAT one sitting and was the top kid in high school, did every hard stem AP, got 5s without tons of work and frankly found the courses easy compared to college They had plenty of time for sleep in high school. They still sleep but less, to keep their super high 3.94 GPA and do the other things, manage it all fairly well.
Freshman year there were many who had As from typical high schools, did not take all of the most challenging stem in HS but had 5s in calc BC and Bio, then struggled to get the average in calc, chem at the ivy, O-chem and physics got worse for them. Some are not ready for the competition and they were TOP students at their high school, thought high school was easy and got crushed. It depends on the high school. Most of the TJ, Stuy, rigorous private top kids felt quite well prepared. Maybe your student should ask other premed students who went to ivies or duke from their high school.

I'm comforted by the fact that my child is experiencing the rigor of TJ. I am curious if yours is planning a gap year as is so common with so many. I know someone who chose a gap year so that they could get into a better medical school than they could otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

All things being equal, Duke then Cornell, then UVA. I think that is the way the reported admissions rates go (but take those with a grain of salt). But really, you just want to choose where you feel you can flourish and get a high GPA. A significant part of med school admissions is really just high GPA and high MCAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

Ok, I will bite.

Among the three, Duke no brainer.
You can do it at Cornell, but it only makes it a lot more difficult. Premed is already a stressful process, it's not necessary to make it more complicated.
UVA is not particularly know for premed, acceptance rate to medical school is not comparable to Duke.

Uhhhh….uva has a medical school, teaching hospital with opportunities for clinical hours, and ample opportunities for research. Many students are pre-med there. As a parent of one, I have sat through several sessions and seen percentages of med school acceptances. It was close to the national average range after a gap year. Without a gap year, the percentage was lower but I think that’s to be expected.

After a gap year, med school acceptances from UVA are between 50-60%, higher than national average. It was lower without the gap year, but with it, most students are very successful.

This is miserable. A good premed program should have > 80% acceptance rate.

Well, the national average is in the 41-44% range. Many schools that report higher rates are excluding those that don't have a certain GPA or get a recommendation from a committee, so you need to be careful when you look at those numbers. We looked results from all applicants at some schools when our kid was applying and the acceptance rates for recent years ranged from a high of 60% to a low of 52% at UVA, 65% to 50% at W&M, 58% to 54% at Michigan, 57% to 51% at Berkeley, and 51% to 45% at UCLA. Many schools now shy away from reporting for all applicants now likely because they are afraid they'll be compared to another school when only selected applicants are counted (rather than all).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

get in to all three first

Maybe they are picking an ED option. Personally, I would go where the student is most likely to stand out and excel relative to peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

Ok, I will bite.

Among the three, Duke no brainer.
You can do it at Cornell, but it only makes it a lot more difficult. Premed is already a stressful process, it's not necessary to make it more complicated.
UVA is not particularly know for premed, acceptance rate to medical school is not comparable to Duke.

Feeder rates mean nothing. Williams has a great rate because they cherry pick to support only a handful. So if your kid gets a B+ in orgo during freshman year, they get zero support and kill all their chances. It's better to go to a school that supports all with research opportunities and recommendations, not everyone should be groomed for md PhD at hopkins. UVA is great and their gap program has pretty much guaranteed admission.
VT has also a surprisingly strong program with ties for research at the NIH, which is a strong boost in admission.
My kid went to an Ivy because they were strong legacies and grandparents paid, but if medicine is the goal and finances are important, the flagship state school is as good.

100% not true regarding Williams. Williams actually points out that Williams grad with an B+ overall in the sciences and a 510 MCAT has an 80% chance of getting into a med school. They completely refute what you say on their own web site. Neither Amherst nor Middlebury withhold committee recommendations from any student as long as they complete the requirements. Amherst specifically points out that one should not worry about a B or two in a core class as long as it was early, you maintain a 3.4 plus science gpa, and show strength in later years.

You pretty much outed yourself as someone biased against SLACs and it bothers you that the top SLACs consistently outperform virtually anyone. Nobody is making you attend one. Facts are friendly and there is no need to make up stuff that can be refuted with a quick internet check. It just makes you look small.

You are insane, nobody is biased against SLACs. You are like one of those short guys who are constantly angry that the world is treating them badly because they're short. My child is already in med school lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose you are a good but not super star student. SAT 1530. Which would you choose in what order for premed? Cornell, Duke, UVA.

get in to all three first

Maybe they are picking an ED option. Personally, I would go where the student is most likely to stand out and excel relative to peers.

This, critically important for med school.