Can boys join Girls On The Run?

[Anonymous]

It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I decided to start a boys’ exercise and “empowerment” club at my child’s school that specifically excluded girls, heads would roll. And before you say boys don’t need empowerment and emotional support, check the latest high school dropout rates, college attendance rates, suicide rates, and think again.

Won’t someone think of the boys?

/sarcasm

DP again - look at the data. While yes the top is still dominated by men, men and boys are having worse and worse outcomes.

My DS is a very observant kid and has been asking since he was very young why girls can wear a shirt that says “girl power” but he cannot wear a shirt that says “boy power.” I have explained many times in various ways that this is a correction for real discrimination in the past, but it is hard for a child to really understand that.

Your kind of rhetoric is what leads boys to online places where they can actually talk about what they see and those places are not good …

So it is important to take what kids observe and say at face value instead of lecturing them like it is a Sarah Lawrence women’s studies class. They are children not adults.

[Anonymous]

Our school has a boys run thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

Oh thanks “do better.” That is so persuasive!

FWIW these questions originated with my DS. I didn’t “message” him anything. And when it is in fact a deprivation (because in fact he cannot join and there is no boys equivalent) then it doesn’t work to just tell him his feelings are invalid.

Y’all live in reductive and sloganeering worlds, which may work for adults who choose it, but not necessarily kids.

[Anonymous]

Why do girls get to have their own organizations and colleges, yet anything that was previously all boys has been disbanded or made to include girls? Are there any male only organizations, clubs anymore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence of girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do girls get to have their own organizations and colleges, yet anything that was previously all boys has been disbanded or made to include girls? Are there any male only organizations, clubs anymore?

There are a few all-male colleges and schools. And of course sports teams. But I don’t think there are any all male civic or social organizations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do girls get to have their own organizations and colleges, yet anything that was previously all boys has been disbanded or made to include girls? Are there any male only organizations, clubs anymore?

There are a few all-male colleges and schools. And of course sports teams. But I don’t think there are any all male civic or social organizations.

They skew older. The masons have a women's shoot off but it's overwhelmingly male over all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence of girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

Again my 7 year old was not part of the “manosphere” when he started noticing these things. Ignoring and dismissing boys feelings is actually what drives them to the manosphere. And yes it would be great if all schools had a boys running club but it’s not fair to put that on the backs of parents. It’s the school that should ensure balance. If you object to this, ask yourself why.

[Anonymous]

No!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. And use the opportunity to help him understand the motivation behind programs like this for girls. If he is elementary age, he can understand it.

Sort of like Cub Scouts used to be just for boys, until parents of girls ruined that?

Cub scouts let girls in because they were in financial trouble and needed a way to boost membership. And no, it hasn't ruined it for the boys at all. -Mom of a (boy) Cub scout.

Of course it has. The entire premise of the organization changed. Just because you have told your son that it’s good and normal doesn’t mean that it is.

Literally none of the Scout laws have changed. And thinking that it's not "good and normal" because there were girls at Pinewood Derby today is pretty bonkers.

So why can’t boys be at GOTR then? The girls (and boys) can still get exercise and learn leadership skills. Just like by allowing girls into cub scouts, the boys can still race pinewood derby cars.

You can’t have it both ways and roll your eyes and say of course it’s fine to allow girls to join a boys only organization, and simultaneously insist boys can’t join a girls only organization.

Last time I checked, girls could do both Girl Scouts and cub scouts, but boys couldn’t do Girl Scouts. So the message here is that girls can do anything and boys cannot. Look at the best students, the leaders, the art competition winners, the class presidents in your child’s elementary school. Then tell me if it’s girls or boys who are losing their way and losing their sense of belonging right now.

Oh and check the suspension rate for girls vs boys while you’re at it.

Look, I'm all for more appropriate developmental approaches to kids in schools. I've worked to improve my kid's school. But again none of this explains why girls in my son's Cub Scout troop is harmful or not normal, as was claimed previously.

Boy Scouts went coed to survive after the organization massively screwed up with a child abuse scandal (and they have taken steps, as a volunteer I eent through a bunch of training and rules to prevent abuse situation). Girls didn't force their way in or take something away from the boys.

There are also boys running programs, as shown by a quick Google. Let me Run and Boys Gotta Run for two examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. And use the opportunity to help him understand the motivation behind programs like this for girls. If he is elementary age, he can understand it.

Sort of like Cub Scouts used to be just for boys, until parents of girls ruined that?

Cub scouts let girls in because they were in financial trouble and needed a way to boost membership. And no, it hasn't ruined it for the boys at all. -Mom of a (boy) Cub scout.

Of course it has. The entire premise of the organization changed. Just because you have told your son that it’s good and normal doesn’t mean that it is.

Literally none of the Scout laws have changed. And thinking that it's not "good and normal" because there were girls at Pinewood Derby today is pretty bonkers.

So why can’t boys be at GOTR then? The girls (and boys) can still get exercise and learn leadership skills. Just like by allowing girls into cub scouts, the boys can still race pinewood derby cars.

You can’t have it both ways and roll your eyes and say of course it’s fine to allow girls to join a boys only organization, and simultaneously insist boys can’t join a girls only organization.

Last time I checked, girls could do both Girl Scouts and cub scouts, but boys couldn’t do Girl Scouts. So the message here is that girls can do anything and boys cannot. Look at the best students, the leaders, the art competition winners, the class presidents in your child’s elementary school. Then tell me if it’s girls or boys who are losing their way and losing their sense of belonging right now.

Oh and check the suspension rate for girls vs boys while you’re at it.

Look, I'm all for more appropriate developmental approaches to kids in schools. I've worked to improve my kid's school. But again none of this explains why girls in my son's Cub Scout troop is harmful or not normal, as was claimed previously.

Boy Scouts went coed to survive after the organization massively screwed up with a child abuse scandal (and they have taken steps, as a volunteer I eent through a bunch of training and rules to prevent abuse situation). Girls didn't force their way in or take something away from the boys.

There are also boys running programs, as shown by a quick Google. Let me Run and Boys Gotta Run for two examples.

But boys see that those organizations don’t exist and it is a bit much to expect parents to immediately start one as soon as the boy notices it. Yes we do need to create opportunities for boys but you are not being realistic if you think the same kind of support exists as for girls organizations - in terms of grants, organizing help, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if many PTAs and schools passively or even actively prevent a boys club from getting off the ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the existence of GOTR that is alienating boys. It's having parents who look at GOTR and see something that is objectively harmful to their boys. That's where the messaging of deprivation is coming from. That's what they are seeing and internalizing. Do better.

-Mom of boys

I'm a mom of two, both boys, and I agree. These manosphere voices teaching boys to hate girls is causing harm, the existence ouf girls' programs is not. My spouse and I actively worked to add a science fair club to our kid's school, so we have walked the walk in actually adding things to the school.

I think this is the way. Boys in elementary school are not seeing women being oppressed historically in their school environment (GOOD), so it doesn't make sense to them. But the manosphere is attractive to boys and men who see themselves as victims. It's up to us to build them up in positive ways at young ages to avoid that, not in opposition to girls, just so they have opportunities to explore and excel in their own individual interests and don't need to see success as a zero sum game. And look for good male role models.

I also had a friend who the manosphere totally destroyed. Lost his girlfriend, lost his job, lost his friends. The victim mentality destroys young men.

I work with college interns and the best thjng you can do for young people is individually build them up. I had a college intern who lost his sports scholarship and we helped him find funding from other sources, plus a job lined up.

Again, I see a bunch of people whining about girls stuff and actually doing anything to help boys. Tearing girls down doesn't help boys.

Literally nobody is tearing girls down on this thread. I am a mom very concerned about my son being vulnerable to the “manosphere” and a huge hurdle is explaining to him the disparate opportunities and rules for girls vs boys.