3.75 1500+ aiming for T20

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year college counseling at our private told my child to stop at a 1530 (2 attempts) but then we saw it play out and kids with a >1580 had an easier time with admissions despite having the same GPA. It definitely adds to the entire application and I'll do things differently with kid #2. There is little down side.

I hear you but correlation ≠ causation. The kids with higher test scores likely edged out applicants in the other criteria, which gives the illusion of higher test scores drastically improving admissions. Correct me if I'm wrong though!

No, several had identical GPAs, worse extracurriculars but a sky high SAT. Michigan, for example, took the sky high SATs in EA and deferred the rest. There was a definite pattern.

Different major? Essays? Recommendation?
SAT is just a one time test, once you cross the line, no one cares 1500 or 1580.

Ok, i beg to differ. Within a pretty homogenous private school population we saw it make a big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:have you seen the data from your school?

Yes, but the graphs become fuzzy around 3.75; that is, there are some admits, but not to the same magnitude beyond the 3.8 line.

[Anonymous]

At our private (feeder, NY), rigor would play a big factor here. I'm assuming that your school dropped AP classes, so if DC indeed has close to the maximum amount of rigor available, the 3.75 definitely won't kill them. And it seems like their healthcare policy niche is a good differentiator.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DC has a 3.75 uw, 1500+, with near-maximum rigor at a top private feeder. High impact ECs and excellent writing. They're applying to health & society/public health and adjacent majors as a non-pre-med. Aiming for a T20 (non-HYPSM) -- do they have good chances? All anecdotes/feedback/input is appreciated!

Is your child top 15-20% in school? Private feeder to which colleges?

OP here; yes, likely top 20% (since class rank factors in rigor). Feeder to all T20s

Is this a max 4.0 school or is there a weighted GPA? Need more info than just 1500+ and info on ECs

Max 4.0 (which nobody ever achieves at DC’s private), 1530, ECs include high impact work/fundraising at public health nonprofits, healthcare policy, projects at hospitals, independent project about healthcare access

Junior or Senior?

Junior

Oh, you still have time.
I'd actually pivot a bit on the major - more healthcare social policy and less whatever else you were doing? Rice has a good major here. So does WashU. Northwestern's Social Policy major etc.
Get an internship this summer with a Congressperson (district office) or Senate or Gov (in state) or state dept of public health to show the policy piece.
And focus on healthcare access for one very niche/specific population group - lots of ideas for that one - but find the connection in the other activities.

Noted, thank you! All of this sounds great.

Feel free to reach out with more questions as they develop.
- Private School Mom with 2 kids currently at private T20 (hopefully another on the way in 2 years) and just finished a UCLA college counseling program. I also suggested the list of schools earlier.

GL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year college counseling at our private told my child to stop at a 1530 (2 attempts) but then we saw it play out and kids with a >1580 had an easier time with admissions despite having the same GPA. It definitely adds to the entire application and I'll do things differently with kid #2. There is little down side.

I don't think that it's that easy to get a 1590 or 1600. My kid got 1600 on multiple bluebook practice exams, initially got a 1560 and score went down on the 2nd try.

I do know a kid who had a 1590 and 4.0 UW and was shut out of all Ivy plus schools.

[Anonymous]

Great stats, congratulations. There’s a solid chance he’ll get a full just about everywhere, but admission will depend on the entire application and class shaping.

At most private T20s it will be a crapshoot. Kids seem to need 2-3 hooks plus a spike to have a real shot if they are not either FGLI or an athletic recruit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:hard no for public kids with those stats but not sure about private kids

Private ED full pay.and max rigor, have a shot! Just not at the publics, go private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great stats, congratulations. There’s a solid chance he’ll get a full just about everywhere, but admission will depend on the entire application and class shaping.

At most private T20s it will be a crapshoot. Kids seem to need 2-3 hooks plus a spike to have a real shot if they are not either FGLI or an athletic recruit.

this. apply legacy somewhere if you can. full pay, legacy, undersubscribed major (though nothing you have written is undersubscribed).
you might want to get some professional counseling help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has a 3.75 uw, 1500+, with near-maximum rigor at a top private feeder. High impact ECs and excellent writing. They're applying to health & society/public health and adjacent majors as a non-pre-med. Aiming for a T20 (non-HYPSM) -- do they have good chances? All anecdotes/feedback/input is appreciated!

From our feederish high school, one has to be top 15% GPA with near-max rigor to get in to the lower T20 with ED including ED with no hooks. If you want any ivy besides the easier ones (cornell ED or dartmouth ED) or any T10 non-ivy with no hooks you have to have max rigor and be top5-10% GPa, near the very top of the class if you want RD.
3.75 UW is not top 30% for any private in our area, nor at the top two public magnets. A student with that profile and not max rigor, 1500, would be borderline for UVa and W&M in state Ea/RD but would get in ED. Would depend what “near” max rigor meant. No way T20. Ask your high school where 3.75 falls relative to the top 10 or 20% and look on SCOIR

OP said at her school some did get in with 3.75. No need to gaslight any more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC has a 3.75 uw, 1500+, with near-maximum rigor at a top private feeder. High impact ECs and excellent writing. They're applying to health & society/public health and adjacent majors as a non-pre-med. Aiming for a T20 (non-HYPSM) -- do they have good chances? All anecdotes/feedback/input is appreciated!

If it is a top feeder then they will know best and give accurate chances and will encourage T20 apps. If not, they will discourage or say might as well try one while they push T40 ED.

[Anonymous]

It is unlikely

[Anonymous]

It is very tough for this to kid get into any of the listed schoold except they have a chance at Cornell and Chicago if they ED. Even for a top private the GPA is too low and while 4.0 is rare at these schools many are clustered around 3.7 or 3.8 so this kid is at 50th percentile (roughly). Rigor and EC will not matter without raw GPA and strong hook. Put gpa and profile with school name in chatgpt and see what it says about rough class rank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has a 3.75 uw, 1500+, with near-maximum rigor at a top private feeder. High impact ECs and excellent writing. They're applying to health & society/public health and adjacent majors as a non-pre-med. Aiming for a T20 (non-HYPSM) -- do they have good chances? All anecdotes/feedback/input is appreciated!

From our feederish high school, one has to be top 15% GPA with near-max rigor to get in to the lower T20 with ED including ED with no hooks. If you want any ivy besides the easier ones (cornell ED or dartmouth ED) or any T10 non-ivy with no hooks you have to have max rigor and be top5-10% GPa, near the very top of the class if you want RD.
3.75 UW is not top 30% for any private in our area, nor at the top two public magnets. A student with that profile and not max rigor, 1500, would be borderline for UVa and W&M in state Ea/RD but would get in ED. Would depend what “near” max rigor meant. No way T20. Ask your high school where 3.75 falls relative to the top 10 or 20% and look on SCOIR

OP said at her school some did get in with 3.75. No need to gaslight any more.

Those could be people with some other hooks. I think the PP you responded to gave the correct advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is very tough for this to kid get into any of the listed schoold except they have a chance at Cornell and Chicago if they ED. Even for a top private the GPA is too low and while 4.0 is rare at these schools many are clustered around 3.7 or 3.8 so this kid is at 50th percentile (roughly). Rigor and EC will not matter without raw GPA and strong hook. Put gpa and profile with school name in chatgpt and see what it says about rough class rank.

This post is super smart.
At these top privates, GPAs are in a pretty narrow range because much of the class was a top academic kid to get into the school and academic stragglers are counseled out along the way or leave for better fit.

80 kids in the class.
Highest GPA in the class: generally 3.95-3.98
80% percentile: 3.9 (the general cum laude cut off which becomes public knowledge) <---the 15 kids above this are most of your unhooked top20s
50% percentile: ~3.65 (announced by college counseling)
0%: ~3.0 (almost zero kids graduate below a 3.0)

So a 3.8 becomes the 70% percentile in the class and a 3.7 becomes around the 60%. There isn't an equal distribution so this isn't an exact science but it's pretty accurate. That's why 3.7's struggle with top20 admissions. They're literally at the 60th percentile, maybe below. And they're competing against the 35 applicants or 40% of kids from their own school who have better grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year college counseling at our private told my child to stop at a 1530 (2 attempts) but then we saw it play out and kids with a >1580 had an easier time with admissions despite having the same GPA. It definitely adds to the entire application and I'll do things differently with kid #2. There is little down side.

I hear you but correlation ≠ causation. The kids with higher test scores likely edged out applicants in the other criteria, which gives the illusion of higher test scores drastically improving admissions. Correct me if I'm wrong though!

No, several had identical GPAs, worse extracurriculars but a sky high SAT. Michigan, for example, took the sky high SATs in EA and deferred the rest. There was a definite pattern.

Different major? Essays? Recommendation?
SAT is just a one time test, once you cross the line, no one cares 1500 or 1580.

Ok, i beg to differ. Within a pretty homogenous private school population we saw it make a big difference.

I think this is correct. Cal Tech published its tiers, which included three different one in the 1500 plus range alone. Our kid's SAT tutor worked at an Ivy in the past and told him he needed to score above a 1550 to have the best app.