Thoughts on UPenn and Duke

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's strange that there are often two or three threads every application season asking specifically about "Penn or Duke".

Never Duke or Vandy or Penn or Columbia...but Penn or Duke.

Is there anyone who would choose Vandy over Duke? Serious question.

[Anonymous]

Both are great schools, obviously, with excellent outcomes.

Having seen both, the settings are incredibly different. It's hard to imagine a kid not having a strong preference for one over the other.

My take:

Choose Penn if you want to be in a city (Philly) and a quick train ride from NYC and DC.

Choose Duke if you'd rather be in a more sheltered and spacious campus setting. There's plenty to do in Durham, but it's not at all a large city like Philly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fingers crossed. He does have sibling legacy at Duke though. Not sure if they count that.

Then why ask here when you have firsthand knowledge?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is Duke a rich kids school? Are there any middle class kids?

The data is 4 years old but Duke has fewer pell grant and highly aided than ivies and also has a larger percentage of the class in the top 2% than the ivies. Ivies have been purposely increasing the % on aid to 55% and above since 2021. Yale just announced what Harvard, Penn and Princeton(and MIT) already have: free tuition for families with income under 200k. The other ivies, similar to Duke, do not have the funds to get to that point yet. These same schools (HYPPM) also give the best aid to families between 150 and 250k, sometimes some aid offered up to 300k.
Funded summer programs, fellowships/research $ for undergrads is also best at these schools.

The trick is to get into one of them.
For anyone who is not full pay, Penn is the move here. Even for those who are, the undergrad opportunities are more robust at Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fingers crossed. He does have sibling legacy at Duke though. Not sure if they count that.

Then why ask here when you have firsthand knowledge?

Agree. Makes no sense

[Anonymous]

Upenn = Trump. Duke = Stephen Miller. I can't quite get that out of my mind when I think of these schools these days.

[Anonymous]

Kid got into UPenn and Duke last year (along with Brown) and chose Duke after doing campus visits. I highly recommend letting your kid tour their top choices after seeing where they get accepted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Duke is indeed the go to place for families that didn’t want or need liberal Ivies in liberal Northeast cities. Don’t see much if any crossover appeal in these 2 fine schools.

Duke is just as liberal as any Ivy...and the research triangle is a very liberal place as well.

NC and PA aren't really that different from each other. The cities are liberal, the rural parts are not...and both states have Democratic governors (who both ran against complete nutjob republicans who were disasters as candidates).

Duke is not as liberal as Penn. It might be as liberal as Princeton or Dartmouth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Duke is good in dozens of sports including football, lacrosse, golf, tennis, baseball, soccer. Its campus is among the most beautiful in the country and has more buildings than Penn which has at best a drab old worn campus.

TBF, all the ancient 8 look drab and worn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These r my son top choices, did RD. Any suggestions on ROI and outcomes for education at these universities. Economics and public policy majors interest. We will be full pay. Thank you

You should probably wait and see which ones he gets into. You can't really go wrong with either.

Penn has the ivy pull and that's pretty hard to ignore.

But Duke looks like it is going to become the Stanford of the south.

[Anonymous]

I turned Duke down twice. In its own way it’s even more try hard than Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Duke has nothing in common with the fifth best Ivy. Completely different vibes. The Duke University Golf Course has more acres than UPenn campus.

And Berry College is 3X larger than Duke. . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Duke a rich kids school? Are there any middle class kids?

The data is 4 years old but Duke has fewer pell grant and highly aided than ivies and also has a larger percentage of the class in the top 2% than the ivies. Ivies have been purposely increasing the % on aid to 55% and above since 2021. Yale just announced what Harvard, Penn and Princeton(and MIT) already have: free tuition for families with income under 200k. The other ivies, similar to Duke, do not have the funds to get to that point yet. These same schools (HYPPM) also give the best aid to families between 150 and 250k, sometimes some aid offered up to 300k.
Funded summer programs, fellowships/research $ for undergrads is also best at these schools.

The trick is to get into one of them.
For anyone who is not full pay, Penn is the move here. Even for those who are, the undergrad opportunities are more robust at Penn.

Duke got railroaded on that poll about pell grants and highly aided and then the NYT decided to make an example of Duke. The difference between Duke and most of the other Ivies wasn't statistically significant, and they cherry picked a year.

In response, Duke created programs to make it super cheap for kids from the Carolinas to go there. Unlike Ivies, they didn't feel the need to turn it into a total PR stunt (I got a NYT alert blasted on my phone earlier this week about Yale - really? That merits an urgent news alert?).

All of these schools are definitely squeezing the middle class. Rich kids to pay the bills and poor kids to feel good about themselves. But any analysis differentiating them is bogus - they are all basically the same.

[Anonymous]

Have you visited both? If not, I highly recommend you do that if your child gets into both. They are both great schools but the environments are very different. I loved Duke but my child did not like Durham and strongly preferred Penn due to its city location. Child also noted that Duke and UVA felt far more alike than Duke and Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Duke is indeed the go to place for families that didn’t want or need liberal Ivies in liberal Northeast cities. Don’t see much if any crossover appeal in these 2 fine schools.

Duke is just as liberal as any Ivy...and the research triangle is a very liberal place as well.

NC and PA aren't really that different from each other. The cities are liberal, the rural parts are not...and both states have Democratic governors (who both ran against complete nutjob republicans who were disasters as candidates).

Duke is not as liberal as Penn. It might be as liberal as Princeton or Dartmouth.

You are arguing over degrees of liberal…but they are all liberal.