NVSL Athlete Eligibility

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doping? Really? The nvsl guidelines say that you must compete with your assigned sex at birth. So by your logic a swimmer who is transitioning is no longer eligible to swim for the nvsl?

It’s summer swim. Just let kids be kids and swim.

I don’t disagree that it’s summer swim and a rec league should be treated differently than USA swimming and should lean into being more inclusive. But now that NVSL has introduced rules around this issue they should be applied consistently and logically. The point of the rules is to ensure competitive fairness for biological females, and it is illogical to suggest that biological females who are taking what are essentially performance enhancing hormones in order to transition to being male should be swimming against females. None of this prevents people from swimming either, it’s meant to define who can compete in what category.

What if they were born female, spent 4-5 years on testosterone, and then were forced to discontinue their gender affirming care due to the Trump Administration?

This is all so insane for an issue that affects so few swimmers.

Judging by the discussion around it I figured every swimmer that won all-stars is trans.

But kidding aside, as an official I still want to hear from NVSL how we are supposed to adjudicate gender challenges. Especially for those of us not scheduled for training this year.

It’s not a technical rule. A deck official wouldn’t be ruling on something like this, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doping? Really? The nvsl guidelines say that you must compete with your assigned sex at birth. So by your logic a swimmer who is transitioning is no longer eligible to swim for the nvsl?

It’s summer swim. Just let kids be kids and swim.

I don’t disagree that it’s summer swim and a rec league should be treated differently than USA swimming and should lean into being more inclusive. But now that NVSL has introduced rules around this issue they should be applied consistently and logically. The point of the rules is to ensure competitive fairness for biological females, and it is illogical to suggest that biological females who are taking what are essentially performance enhancing hormones in order to transition to being male should be swimming against females. None of this prevents people from swimming either, it’s meant to define who can compete in what category.

What if they were born female, spent 4-5 years on testosterone, and then were forced to discontinue their gender affirming care due to the Trump Administration?

This is all so insane for an issue that affects so few swimmers.

Judging by the discussion around it I figured every swimmer that won all-stars is trans.

But kidding aside, as an official I still want to hear from NVSL how we are supposed to adjudicate gender challenges. Especially for those of us not scheduled for training this year.

It’s not a technical rule. A deck official wouldn’t be ruling on something like this, right?

I guess that’s my question. We’ve already seen cases of people trying to discern gender by looking at the swimmers. So if you have a protest on the deck how is ot supposed to be handled? And how does it get solved? You let them swim and then hash it out in a post meet protest? Submit genetic testing or a doctor note to prove gender? Is that paid for by NVSL or born by the swimmers family?

Or are we doing honor system like is done with age and you still have the same parents yelling about every female swimmer with more masculine features?

[Anonymous]

I’m sure when a division 1 team lost to a trans swimmer, someone is going to protest, and the NVSL will investigate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doping? Really? The nvsl guidelines say that you must compete with your assigned sex at birth. So by your logic a swimmer who is transitioning is no longer eligible to swim for the nvsl?

It’s summer swim. Just let kids be kids and swim.

I don’t disagree that it’s summer swim and a rec league should be treated differently than USA swimming and should lean into being more inclusive. But now that NVSL has introduced rules around this issue they should be applied consistently and logically. The point of the rules is to ensure competitive fairness for biological females, and it is illogical to suggest that biological females who are taking what are essentially performance enhancing hormones in order to transition to being male should be swimming against females. None of this prevents people from swimming either, it’s meant to define who can compete in what category.

What if they were born female, spent 4-5 years on testosterone, and then were forced to discontinue their gender affirming care due to the Trump Administration?

This is all so insane for an issue that affects so few swimmers.

Judging by the discussion around it I figured every swimmer that won all-stars is trans.

But kidding aside, as an official I still want to hear from NVSL how we are supposed to adjudicate gender challenges. Especially for those of us not scheduled for training this year.

It’s not a technical rule. A deck official wouldn’t be ruling on something like this, right?

I guess that’s my question. We’ve already seen cases of people trying to discern gender by looking at the swimmers. So if you have a protest on the deck how is ot supposed to be handled? And how does it get solved? You let them swim and then hash it out in a post meet protest? Submit genetic testing or a doctor note to prove gender? Is that paid for by NVSL or born by the swimmers family?

Or are we doing honor system like is done with age and you still have the same parents yelling about every female swimmer with more masculine features?

I’m not a violent person, but I can honestly say that if I see a parent yelling this nonsense within earshot of some little girl at a meet, I will slap them. Even if it gets me banned. Mind your tongue around the children or find out.

[Anonymous]

I mean maybe I'm underthinking this, but isn't it as simple as selecting "Gender assigned at birth" when you're registering your kid for summer swim?

If some kid has been on the team for years, it would be obvious if there has been a change. If not, you'd have to rely on the registering parent being honest. I suppose there might be an instance where a new to the area/pool swimmer registers, but I'd imagine that would be quite rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean maybe I'm underthinking this, but isn't it as simple as selecting "Gender assigned at birth" when you're registering your kid for summer swim?

If some kid has been on the team for years, it would be obvious if there has been a change. If not, you'd have to rely on the registering parent being honest. I suppose there might be an instance where a new to the area/pool swimmer registers, but I'd imagine that would be quite rare.

Exactly. How we will know?? The same way you know a kids DOB. Go by what the parent says. If it mysteriously switches you have to ask questions. This is really not new or hard.

[Anonymous]

Omg- in all my years in NVSL and all the kids- there was one transgender swimmer. This is not an issue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Omg- in all my years in NVSL and all the kids- there was one transgender swimmer. This is not an issue

Some people have perceived this issue to be a political winner and, having very few winners right now, do not want to let it go. But that’s a topic for the politics thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Omg- in all my years in NVSL and all the kids- there was one transgender swimmer. This is not an issue

Statistically that is unlikely. What you mean to say is "Omg- in all my years in NVSL and all the kids- I knew about one transgender swimmer."

Which is basically confirmation of why it isn't an issue for performance/competition.

[Anonymous]

Has there been any enforcement guidelines put out by NVSL?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean maybe I'm underthinking this, but isn't it as simple as selecting "Gender assigned at birth" when you're registering your kid for summer swim?

If some kid has been on the team for years, it would be obvious if there has been a change. If not, you'd have to rely on the registering parent being honest. I suppose there might be an instance where a new to the area/pool swimmer registers, but I'd imagine that would be quite rare.

+1000. It’s not rocket science. It’s simple - add a category at registration. The chances of someone lying about this are probably the same as lying about age a d the solution is the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has there been any enforcement guidelines put out by NVSL?

The way it was explained to me was that it would be treated more as a protest similar to if someone was suspected of violating the "must be a member of the pool to be on the swim team" policy. So they would only investigate and ask for proof if someone brought an athletes gender into question. It's gonna be so much "fun" watching people scrutinizing athletes bodies and the fall out of a girl who was assigned female at birth having their girlhood questioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has there been any enforcement guidelines put out by NVSL?

The way it was explained to me was that it would be treated more as a protest similar to if someone was suspected of violating the "must be a member of the pool to be on the swim team" policy. So they would only investigate and ask for proof if someone brought an athletes gender into question. It's gonna be so much "fun" watching people scrutinizing athletes bodies and the fall out of a girl who was assigned female at birth having their girlhood questioned.

Yeeeesh. This feels infinitely more harmful than a trans kid swimming a race. So we are going to have post event investigations on gender that will require proof? Genetic testing? God, they really didn't think this through did they? Swim reps are going to have so much fun pulling aside a 12 year old girl and telling them that a parent from the other team thought they looked a little mannish so they need to go get a blood test.

Happy summer swim everyone!

[Anonymous]

Do we honestly think this is an issue? Our NVSL team has had only one trans swimmer (who had no problem swimming with their assigned-at-birth-gender). I have to imagine that meets and practices will go on as normal and I can't see reps demanding for kid's birth certificates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do we honestly think this is an issue? Our NVSL team has had only one trans swimmer (who had no problem swimming with their assigned-at-birth-gender). I have to imagine that meets and practices will go on as normal and I can't see reps demanding for kid's birth certificates.

Considering there was an issue last year where there was a protest at a fun meet for under 10 kids when someone claimed they saw a bulge on a 7 year old, I think we will probably see issues pop up. Not a huge amount because there aren't many trans kids in NVSL and most people I don't think care. But yes, I think somewhere this will be an issue.