Horses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Realistically, how much money do you need to have in this area to support a horse riding hobby? Assume this means owning 2-3 horses and showing them on occasion. I know next to nothing about horses, so I am just trying to get a rough gauge or range for how expensive this hobby can get.

Any data points would be appreciated!

If you know what you're doing, plenty of people will pay you to school their horses (and train their kids). Lots of wealthy people buy into the sport and then lose interest (or their kid loses interest). I made an early career out of riding other people's horses, including showing them so they'd have higher resale value. I was constantly overwhelmed with far more offers of horses to ride than I had time for, and rarely paid cash for anything because I was able to work in trade for most of what I needed. That's not all that unusual.

If you don't know what you're doing already, it's entirely possible to lose your whole ass riding horses. There's no such thing as a free horse; everything about this "hobby" costs a LOT of money. If you know next to nothing, you'll pay for the privilege of that ignorance. You'll pay for grooms, and people to muck your stalls and clean your equipment, in addition to the standard pricing of board, fee, veterinary care, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all we know OP is loaded and the girlfriend knows that and is testing how much he’ll lean in and give her a “lady of leisure” lifestyle if things get really serious by throwing out she might like to stop working one day, etc.

Just an anecdote.

A well-off couple moved into one of the few properties with a little land left in our town's historic district. The local HDC around that time was almost maniacally vigilant bunch of old biddies who proudly declared at one point that they had joined the HDC specifically to see that the town's only library (a donated 19th century residence converted) was never rebuilt, even though it had a failing sewer system, floors that were buckling and no potable running water. They were also the people who voted down upgrading the town little league field with something like they used to play ball with sticks and rocks in their day and it was just fine!

Anyway, they did approve restoration of a Big-House-Little-House-Back-House-Barn situation in the district for this couple and they turned their little postage stamp property into something that looked straight out of Williamsburg VA. Painted it very 18th century yellow. Quaint.

The wife bought a really nice fancy horse that she thought "looked handsome!" and started wearing tall-boots and jodhpurs around town and taking lessons on her own property. No doubt she did NOT know how to properly buy a horse.

Next I heard, one day she tried to exercise the horse on her own, it didn't work out, she fell off the saddle and got dragged and at least one of her legs got broken in who knows how many places. I heard she never walked quite right again and I think they sold the property and moved back out somewhere else, it was just such a disaster all over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Realistically, how much money do you need to have in this area to support a horse riding hobby? Assume this means owning 2-3 horses and showing them on occasion. I know next to nothing about horses, so I am just trying to get a rough gauge or range for how expensive this hobby can get.

Any data points would be appreciated!

If you know what you're doing, plenty of people will pay you to school their horses (and train their kids). Lots of wealthy people buy into the sport and then lose interest (or their kid loses interest). I made an early career out of riding other people's horses, including showing them so they'd have higher resale value. I was constantly overwhelmed with far more offers of horses to ride than I had time for, and rarely paid cash for anything because I was able to work in trade for most of what I needed. That's not all that unusual.

If you don't know what you're doing already, it's entirely possible to lose your whole ass riding horses. There's no such thing as a free horse; everything about this "hobby" costs a LOT of money. If you know next to nothing, you'll pay for the privilege of that ignorance. You'll pay for grooms, and people to muck your stalls and clean your equipment, in addition to the standard pricing of board, fee, veterinary care, etc.

At at least one Vermont Summer Festival I met someone whose sister moved to the middle east and worked for some wealthy family just training their horses. She had a good gig.

I also remember seeing Bill Gates' daughter riding at least one week when we were there, I forget her name, but he came in on a helicopter which was quite the deal since no one wanted to spook a hundred horses at once, but they apparently do have places to land around there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it might be better if you gave a budget range and explained if you are willing to buy land to keep horses on.

Fancy horses cost as much as new cars. Cheap horses cost like junkers to decent used cars.

Boarding costs like an apartment (potentially shared) per stall unless you live in a rural area where land is cheap. And don't need amenities like an indoor riding ring.

Also would help to know if this is showing for kids (ponies) or a grownup-level of showing.

Ok, so this is not my hobby (hence my ignorance), but things are getting serious with a woman who is very much into it but would also like to eventually leave her job, so I am just trying to get a general sense of things out of curiosity. Recently attended an event that featured a few olympians and it was pretty cool.

Yes, would be willing to buy land if that made sense. This would be grown-up level showing.

This is a discussion to have with your lady. She can fill in the numbers for you

Yeah, I get that. In that case, it can probably wait. Bit too early to get into that level of financial detail. I just wanted to get a rough sense of what it entails.

It’s a brutal amount. We have 2 friends who are both into it. One owns the horses and one leases them. Neither owns the land - they have them at good stables for the training there. If you own the land, you’ll need people to take care of stuff or you could board horses to subsidize it, but that’s a huge pain. Anyways, both of our friends spend upwards of $350 annually. For the one that leases the 2 horses that included the leasing. For the one that owns the horses, each horse was initially about $80. It’s a crazy hobby. Think $1400 for show boots, thousands on blazers, the horse prep for each show is thousands, you pay thousands to get the horse to the shows, horse shoes are monthly. The vet bills are insane.

[Anonymous]

I'd like to add the prices quoted here sound excessive. It's not $50K/year to board horses for the majority of facilities. The main thing is they need a significant amount of ongoing care. Farrier visits are regular. Annual dentals. Veterinary care is not inexpensive when they get sick. They need a series of vaccines twice a year. For feed they need horse grains and hay in additional to grazing, with plenty of horses needing various nutritional supplements. They need to be groomed. If they have a stall you need to muck out the stall on the regular. They need a high quality winter blanket especially if they're field kept.

As far as picking a barn if you choose to board, keep your eyes open when checking out facilities. Some horse people (but not all horse people) are drama llamas. The drama llamas can spoil all the fun out of the sport, so be aware if you prefer a low key environment.

[Anonymous]

Don't forget tack and saddles, which often have to be changed out if you change horses, like if you a child who grows.

Monthly smartpaks, lesson fees, horse transportation, even things like holiday tips for trainers add up.

We had some drama llamas in our barn, the head trainer and her #1 assistant had a falling out and the assistant moved to a new barn taking like half a dozen students and their horses to the next one. That was crazy.

[Anonymous]

I can answer this for the OP.
If we’re talking about a happy adult amateur in H/J at the A show level (which is not the only way to do it!)

Figure $50-$350k/horse
$3k/month base expenses (including board, routine care, basic training)
$3k/horse/regional show

Triple everything for Wellington in the winter, double everything for Ocala.

But what will really get you is that horses don’t stay sound. If you get a horse that stays sound for 10 years, get down and kiss its hooves. So the big cost is retiring them. You can decide to not do that, but you have to be okay with the ethics of euthanizing or otherwise offloading a horse that isn’t rideable but could live for another 10-20 years.

Don’t buy a farm! If it hasn’t been your lifelong dream to own a farm, for goodness sake, don’t buy a farm. I mean even if it’s a $10m farm in Wellington and you will never so much as hold a broom, don’t buy a farm. You’re welcome in advance.

[Anonymous]

My SIL used to ride horses, the last one they owned and retired (vs. lease) got sent to a “farm” in the south where MIL said they paid $250 a month and in exchange received emailed photos every month.

$250 a month to keep up an unsound pastured horse for years obviously makes no sense.

MIL said she highly suspected that they took up to 200 photos on the first day because that’s exactly what it looked like, but when SIL was young it was somehow worth a charade because it kept her happy to get a different picture each month.

Horse stuff is not for the faint of heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can answer this for the OP.
If we’re talking about a happy adult amateur in H/J at the A show level (which is not the only way to do it!)

Figure $50-$350k/horse
$3k/month base expenses (including board, routine care, basic training)
$3k/horse/regional show

Triple everything for Wellington in the winter, double everything for Ocala.

But what will really get you is that horses don’t stay sound. If you get a horse that stays sound for 10 years, get down and kiss its hooves. So the big cost is retiring them. You can decide to not do that, but you have to be okay with the ethics of euthanizing or otherwise offloading a horse that isn’t rideable but could live for another 10-20 years.

Don’t buy a farm! If it hasn’t been your lifelong dream to own a farm, for goodness sake, don’t buy a farm. I mean even if it’s a $10m farm in Wellington and you will never so much as hold a broom, don’t buy a farm. You’re welcome in advance.

Our barn owner recently decided to retire and go live in Florida with her son. Her barn with residence on premises, 2 outdoor riding rings, an indoor ring and I think like 25 stalls sold for $1.5.

It’s the kind of thing we could have possibly helped our daughter purchase if she were capable of going into that kind of business, but I don’t know who would want to do that because it’s absolutely like being on alert 24/7/365 for everything from fire to colic to who knows whatever else.

I get exhausted just thinking about it. Don’t buy a farm is right.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t have time to read the whole thread, but if she is that good of a rider, someone could want her to ride their horses in events for them. If the important thing to her is the riding/showing, and she is already excellent at it, you can do that without owning a horse.

Depending on the owner you might still have to pay for your coaching but you would not have to pay for horse care and upkeep.

Signed, former horse person who rode some rich person’s horse in hunter/jumper events for a several years when I was younger and more ambitious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t have time to read the whole thread, but if she is that good of a rider, someone could want her to ride their horses in events for them. If the important thing to her is the riding/showing, and she is already excellent at it, you can do that without owning a horse.

Depending on the owner you might still have to pay for your coaching but you would not have to pay for horse care and upkeep.

Signed, former horse person who rode some rich person’s horse in hunter/jumper events for a several years when I was younger and more ambitious

Yeah, but that plan needs to come from the rider/GF/fiancée/whatever she is, not from the non-horsey guy who stands at the rail and claps.

“Hey honey, I know you really love Dobbin. But I crunched the numbers and figured we could save so much money if you sell him and just catch ride in Wellington or Aiken a couple weekends each winter,
and the rest of the time just lesson on whatever horses your trainer has available.”

Pitch that idea and Dobbin won’t be the only one sleeping in the barn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t have time to read the whole thread, but if she is that good of a rider, someone could want her to ride their horses in events for them. If the important thing to her is the riding/showing, and she is already excellent at it, you can do that without owning a horse.

Depending on the owner you might still have to pay for your coaching but you would not have to pay for horse care and upkeep.

Signed, former horse person who rode some rich person’s horse in hunter/jumper events for a several years when I was younger and more ambitious

Yeah, but that plan needs to come from the rider/GF/fiancée/whatever she is, not from the non-horsey guy who stands at the rail and claps.

“Hey honey, I know you really love Dobbin. But I crunched the numbers and figured we could save so much money if you sell him and just catch ride in Wellington or Aiken a couple weekends each winter,
and the rest of the time just lesson on whatever horses your trainer has available.”

Pitch that idea and Dobbin won’t be the only one sleeping in the barn.