AP PreCalc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalc has replaced honors precalc at many high schools. It doesn't look good or bad, it just is. It's not as though the choice were AP Precalc vs calc; the choice is AP precalc vs whatever the less-rigorous course is called at that high school (and there is a lot of variety; college algebra, precalc and trig, etc.). I haven't listened to the podcast, but I don't understand what they might be trying to imply. Yeah, we know it's not college level math, and we know it won't be among the rigorous APs that colleges care about, but so what? You still have to take it on the road to calc. Take the course and be glad for the GPA weight.

I think the point of the YCBK discussion was that just because there now is an AP exam to back the high school precalc course, kids should not assume that taking it checks the math AP box for college admissions if their high school also offers AP Calc AB and/or AP Calc BC. School context matters.

And there is a hierarchy of rigor of AP exams — AP Precalc does not pass muster if a kid has choice to take something more challenging. They were much more focused on calling to task the College Board for creating the AP Precalc exam in the first place.

There are two excellent reasons for AP Precalc to exist.

The first one is confusion about what is the most rigorous math path. The problem is, AP Stats can be taken directly after Algebra 2. So without high-quality advising, a kid choosing between AP Stats and honors precalculus would naturally conclude that AP Stats is the more rigorous path. This would be incorrect, because only precalculus prepares the student for AP Calculus or Calculus I in college. Students with educated parents or attending schools full of privilege are unlikely to make this mistake. But most parents and schools aren’t like that. So by having AP Stats but no AP Precalc, the College Board was inadvertently steering promising young people down the wrong road. AP Precalc solves that problem.

Second, relatively few high school students get beyond precalculus by junior year. California state schools no longer look at the ACT/SAT, but they do look at AP scores. So the AP Precalc exam gives students who take precalc junior year a way to demonstrate math competence for college applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the norm now for “good but not great” math students. It’s fine for most colleges, especially if they’re ending at Calc AB. It’s actually a tough class for kids who are good, not great. Many struggle to get A’s for the first time.

It's also now the norm for great math students, who still take a precalc course in between algebra 2 and calc.

At our school, Honors Pre Calc is the link between Alg2H and CalcBC for the strongest math students.

It doesn’t quite make sense that Honors Pre Calc is more advanced than AP Pre Calc, but I think admissions readers are familiar with that.

Interesting. I agree that doesn't make sense. It's odd to even offer both; seems like most high schools simply replaced honors precalc with AP.

Right, because of the grade bump I think. I heard that the class was originally envisioned so that someone who does not get to Calc can get some AP credit in high school. But that isn’t the same course that underclassmen need to be prepared for AP Calc. Hence the different versions of the course, etc.

And I do know of a number of kids taking AP Precalc AB who would have taken honors Precalc in the past (no longer offered at my kids school). Those kids could previously decide after honors Precalc whether to take AP Calc AB or BC. But now they are tracked a year earlier because the top students are taking AP Precalc BC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I listened. I *think* what they were inferring is that an AP precalc test is a money grab. APs are supposed to be college equivalent courses - and precalc isn't a college equivalent course.

So it wasn't a slag on PreCalc the class, but PreCalc the test.

But they could have been clearer.

I'm not a math person and dont have math kids, but I've never really understood how kids are supposed to get to Calc AB or BC before 12th. That's just not how our HS works. You'd have to do a lot of work outside HS and then appeal and I dont' see that being done where I live and we def have kids at CWRU and BC etc, every ear.

+1

“AP” Precal is the College Board’s newest course. They are marketing it as a college course, but plenty of colleges don’t even teach precalculus.

I think we should be concerned about College Board’s attempt to dominate high school curricula. A few courses potentially in development:

AP Personal Finance

AP Medical Terminology

AP Medical Diagnostic Services

AP Green Technologies

AP Business Marketing and Sales

AP Journalism

AP Agricultural Science

AP Women’s Studies (Gender Studies/Humanities)


They’re making millions off high school districts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listened. I *think* what they were inferring is that an AP precalc test is a money grab. APs are supposed to be college equivalent courses - and precalc isn't a college equivalent course.

So it wasn't a slag on PreCalc the class, but PreCalc the test.

But they could have been clearer.

I'm not a math person and dont have math kids, but I've never really understood how kids are supposed to get to Calc AB or BC before 12th. That's just not how our HS works. You'd have to do a lot of work outside HS and then appeal and I dont' see that being done where I live and we def have kids at CWRU and BC etc, every ear.

+1

“AP” Precal is the College Board’s newest course. They are marketing it as a college course, but plenty of colleges don’t even teach precalculus.

I think we should be concerned about College Board’s attempt to dominate high school curricula. A few courses potentially in development:

AP Personal Finance

AP Medical Terminology

AP Medical Diagnostic Services

AP Green Technologies

AP Business Marketing and Sales

AP Journalism

AP Agricultural Science

AP Women’s Studies (Gender Studies/Humanities)


They’re making millions off high school districts.

Garbage. Hopefully schools refuse.

[Anonymous]

Our private got rid of AP precalc and replaced it with Calc Honors. Maybe this is why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Smart kids at my DC’s private school take AP Calc AB in 12th. You can’t go from pre-Calc to BC because you have to take AB first. The really advanced kids (10-12 kids?) take Calc BC in 11th and MV/linear in 12th, but they almost all come from MCPS or FCPS where they were pushed forward in math in middle school. This is not common for kids at private school where Algebra 1 is taught in 8th.

Our school allows people to to jump from pre-calc to Calc BC.

[Anonymous]

In high-performing FCPS high schools, the normal smart "mathy" kids took Alg 1 Hon in 7th, Geom Hon in 8th, Alg 2 Hon in 9th, Precalc Hon in 10th, AP Calc BC in 11th, and MV/LinAlg in 12th. When AP Precalc was first introduced, people realized that it was less rigorous than the Precalc Hon class. So they came up with AP Precalc BC to make sure that the students were not missing out on the old curriculum when they went from Precalc to Calc BC.

In FCPS, it is considered redundant to take Calc AB and then Calc BC. Perfectly fine for many colleges and many majors, but definitely a black mark (especially for stem majors at competitive colleges). So the high schools need to make sure that the precalc course prepares kids appropriately. It isn't totally figured out yet consistently through FCPS, but I'm sure it will be in another few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In high-performing FCPS high schools, the normal smart "mathy" kids took Alg 1 Hon in 7th, Geom Hon in 8th, Alg 2 Hon in 9th, Precalc Hon in 10th, AP Calc BC in 11th, and MV/LinAlg in 12th. When AP Precalc was first introduced, people realized that it was less rigorous than the Precalc Hon class. So they came up with AP Precalc BC to make sure that the students were not missing out on the old curriculum when they went from Precalc to Calc BC.

In FCPS, it is considered redundant to take Calc AB and then Calc BC. Perfectly fine for many colleges and many majors, but definitely a black mark (especially for stem majors at competitive colleges). So the high schools need to make sure that the precalc course prepares kids appropriately. It isn't totally figured out yet consistently through FCPS, but I'm sure it will be in another few years.

They should honestly just declare a bunch of FCPS high schools junior colleges, grant the kids associate degrees, and have them apply as transfer students if they want to continue their education. It’s not “high school” in the ordinary sense of the word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is going to depend on your district. Around the country, it's very common to apply to college without having taken Calculus or to have taken it senior year. However, that's because it's the norm in their districts.

In the DMV, or at least in MCPS and FCPS, the "norm" is that smart kids take Calculus junior year. I think it's ridiculous but it's the rat race.

\
This is 100% not "the norm" for "smart kids". Algebra in 8th, Geometry in 9th, Alg 2 in 10th, Precalc in 11th, Calculus in 12th is "the norm" here.

For FCPS, the prior poster was correct. Most advanced kids in FCPS take algebra in 7th, definitely not 8th.

Agree. Algebra in 8th has pretty much become on level. Pre-algebra in 8th grade would be considered remedial in FCPS.

This isn't true in DoDEA. Algebra 8th is accelerated and usually offered in 9th. I had to fight to have my oldest two years ahead, and youngest one year ahead. We are former FCPS. There is a lot of discussion around math lately in terms of what is best for success. At DoDEA, current thinking is to not accelerate most too young and to double up on Geo/Alg II in high school for those driven. I'm glad my sophomore will do Calc next year, but on a meta level, it does seem that some kids burn out and only a smaller percentage need to go faster.

[Anonymous]

CA Public HS

Took Integrated Math 3 in 10th and took AP Pre Calculus (self study). Transcript unfortunately didn’t have AP Pre Calculus

Took AP Calculus AB in 11th. Requested to take BC same year but was not allowed since both exams will be on same day/time. No reserve day for the exam

Took AP Calculus BC in 12th.

Now, attending UCLA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smart kids at my DC’s private school take AP Calc AB in 12th. You can’t go from pre-Calc to BC because you have to take AB first. The really advanced kids (10-12 kids?) take Calc BC in 11th and MV/linear in 12th, but they almost all come from MCPS or FCPS where they were pushed forward in math in middle school. This is not common for kids at private school where Algebra 1 is taught in 8th.

Our school allows people to to jump from pre-calc to Calc BC.

Same. Calc BC is AB plus two extra units. Totally unnecessary for good math students to take both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalc has replaced honors precalc at many high schools. It doesn't look good or bad, it just is. It's not as though the choice were AP Precalc vs calc; the choice is AP precalc vs whatever the less-rigorous course is called at that high school (and there is a lot of variety; college algebra, precalc and trig, etc.). I haven't listened to the podcast, but I don't understand what they might be trying to imply. Yeah, we know it's not college level math, and we know it won't be among the rigorous APs that colleges care about, but so what? You still have to take it on the road to calc. Take the course and be glad for the GPA weight.

I think the point of the YCBK discussion was that just because there now is an AP exam to back the high school precalc course, kids should not assume that taking it checks the math AP box for college admissions if their high school also offers AP Calc AB and/or AP Calc BC. School context matters.

And there is a hierarchy of rigor of AP exams — AP Precalc does not pass muster if a kid has choice to take something more challenging. They were much more focused on calling to task the College Board for creating the AP Precalc exam in the first place.

There are two excellent reasons for AP Precalc to exist.

The first one is confusion about what is the most rigorous math path. The problem is, AP Stats can be taken directly after Algebra 2. So without high-quality advising, a kid choosing between AP Stats and honors precalculus would naturally conclude that AP Stats is the more rigorous path. This would be incorrect, because only precalculus prepares the student for AP Calculus or Calculus I in college. Students with educated parents or attending schools full of privilege are unlikely to make this mistake. But most parents and schools aren’t like that. So by having AP Stats but no AP Precalc, the College Board was inadvertently steering promising young people down the wrong road. AP Precalc solves that problem.

Second, relatively few high school students get beyond precalculus by junior year. California state schools no longer look at the ACT/SAT, but they do look at AP scores. So the AP Precalc exam gives students who take precalc junior year a way to demonstrate math competence for college applications.

Good for you for exiting the dcum echo chamber and bringing some sense to this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Our private doesn’t offer this AP as it is ‘too easy.’ They instead offer an absolutely brutal Honors Precalc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP Precalc has replaced honors precalc at many high schools. It doesn't look good or bad, it just is. It's not as though the choice were AP Precalc vs calc; the choice is AP precalc vs whatever the less-rigorous course is called at that high school (and there is a lot of variety; college algebra, precalc and trig, etc.). I haven't listened to the podcast, but I don't understand what they might be trying to imply. Yeah, we know it's not college level math, and we know it won't be among the rigorous APs that colleges care about, but so what? You still have to take it on the road to calc. Take the course and be glad for the GPA weight.

I think the point of the YCBK discussion was that just because there now is an AP exam to back the high school precalc course, kids should not assume that taking it checks the math AP box for college admissions if their high school also offers AP Calc AB and/or AP Calc BC. School context matters.

And there is a hierarchy of rigor of AP exams — AP Precalc does not pass muster if a kid has choice to take something more challenging. They were much more focused on calling to task the College Board for creating the AP Precalc exam in the first place.

There are two excellent reasons for AP Precalc to exist.

The first one is confusion about what is the most rigorous math path. The problem is, AP Stats can be taken directly after Algebra 2. So without high-quality advising, a kid choosing between AP Stats and honors precalculus would naturally conclude that AP Stats is the more rigorous path. This would be incorrect, because only precalculus prepares the student for AP Calculus or Calculus I in college. Students with educated parents or attending schools full of privilege are unlikely to make this mistake. But most parents and schools aren’t like that. So by having AP Stats but no AP Precalc, the College Board was inadvertently steering promising young people down the wrong road. AP Precalc solves that problem.

Second, relatively few high school students get beyond precalculus by junior year. California state schools no longer look at the ACT/SAT, but they do look at AP scores. So the AP Precalc exam gives students who take precalc junior year a way to demonstrate math competence for college applications.

The CLEP precalculus exam fills the latter role

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our private doesn’t offer this AP as it is ‘too easy.’ They instead offer an absolutely brutal Honors Precalc.

Same. Honors precalc and our school is brutal too. Probably because the instructor has a masters in math, teaches part time at college and pretty much makes up his own super hard curriculum