Can someone explain how kids aren't getting into clubs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to hire for investment banking on Wall Street, recruiting at major schools (particularly my TT alma mater). If I were still in that role, I would be certain to avoid these kids like the plague.

I met one of these kids at an alumni event recently and he was so proud of having been in the club and landing the dream Wall Street job, and how many of his friends also had. I couldn't listen to it. A few years earlier I'm sure he was the same kid advertising his 20 AP classes or his fake extracurriculars. I was embarrassed that my alma mater, which was always pretty pre-professional, seems to have strongly embraced this.

The club kids sound absolutely insufferable. Particularly those who already come from privileged backgrounds. I am more understanding of the kids who come from less privileged backgrounds who see it as a way to educate themselves on something that might be somewhat foreign to them.

girl you were at an alumni event at your you-must-say TT alma mater. dont be shocked when there are snakes in a lake. don't hate the snake for being in the lake. if you dont like it, dont swim in a lake.

You and the other person who replied to me don't get it. But DCUM is not known for reading comprehension. It is known for ignorant know-it-alls who stand on their head trying to make witty contrarian remarks which only demonstrate their lack of critical thinking skills.

I try hard to tell both sides of a story here. Such as I generally think these clubs are awful, but I guess they serve some purpose so as much as I hate them, I guess they can kind of be justified. I am writing this stream of conscious while doing better things in my life. I am usually very particular about my use of language. But I don't need to kill myself to impress people here.

I give up. Trying to give some perspective that seemed to be lacking here and get attacked. Meanwhile all of the people who have never been within a mile of Wall Street are experts. Best of luck to you.

I'm the other person who replied to you. I never claimed to be an expert. I'm sad you chose to spend your energy on this much ruder reply instead of my well-meaning (well, maybe "better-meaning" at least) questions (the second and third ones at least, as they weren't rhetorical)

[Anonymous]

My kid is a freshman. He applied to 3 clubs. Got into 2. One everyone got in. One half the people that applied got in. Didn't get an interview for the last one .... an investing club.

I think the issue is that most kids want to join the investing club but don't realize they don't want you until your Junior year.

It also is apparent, that some clubs have a huge time commitment.

[Anonymous]

The UVA Pickleball Club has tryouts, and not everyone makes it. You’ve got to be good — really good. UVA won the 2024 Collegiate Pickleball Championship, so standards are high. Stop whining about your kids not getting into every club. Tell them to bring something worth having. Otherwise, stfu.

[Anonymous]

Choosing reach colleges or high targets means your kid enters an environment where others are as or more accomplished than they are. Which can equal losing out in competitive opportunities like clubs and positions.

Undermatching and choosing colleges that are low targets or safeties means your kid enters an environment where they are more accomplished than the rest and can shine and be a star, getting into clubs more easily and gaining many leadership positions, internships, be a professor's favorite student etc.

Undermatching is underrated on this board. On top of potential merit aid, it leads to a much smoother and happier student experience in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to hire for investment banking on Wall Street, recruiting at major schools (particularly my TT alma mater). If I were still in that role, I would be certain to avoid these kids like the plague.

I met one of these kids at an alumni event recently and he was so proud of having been in the club and landing the dream Wall Street job, and how many of his friends also had. I couldn't listen to it. A few years earlier I'm sure he was the same kid advertising his 20 AP classes or his fake extracurriculars. I was embarrassed that my alma mater, which was always pretty pre-professional, seems to have strongly embraced this.

The club kids sound absolutely insufferable. Particularly those who already come from privileged backgrounds. I am more understanding of the kids who come from less privileged backgrounds who see it as a way to educate themselves on something that might be somewhat foreign to them.

girl you were at an alumni event at your you-must-say TT alma mater. dont be shocked when there are snakes in a lake. don't hate the snake for being in the lake. if you dont like it, dont swim in a lake.

You and the other person who replied to me don't get it. But DCUM is not known for reading comprehension. It is known for ignorant know-it-alls who stand on their head trying to make witty contrarian remarks which only demonstrate their lack of critical thinking skills.

I try hard to tell both sides of a story here. Such as I generally think these clubs are awful, but I guess they serve some purpose so as much as I hate them, I guess they can kind of be justified. I am writing this stream of conscious while doing better things in my life. I am usually very particular about my use of language. But I don't need to kill myself to impress people here.

I give up. Trying to give some perspective that seemed to be lacking here and get attacked. Meanwhile all of the people who have never been within a mile of Wall Street are experts. Best of luck to you.

I'm the other person who replied to you. I never claimed to be an expert. I'm sad you chose to spend your energy on this much ruder reply instead of my well-meaning (well, maybe "better-meaning" at least) questions (the second and third ones at least, as they weren't rhetorical)

Fair enough. Apologies (OMG - someone apologized on DCUM - stop the presses!). What I am saying is that these clubs should exist as entities that are open to all to help those who do not have a background or need further help. Not as some competitive ponzi scheme to inflate the egos of those in charge, which is what they have become. I appreciate that being open to all might not be easy if there are dozens of kids interested, but they can figure it out.

As they currently exist, these clubs shouldn't exist. And I wish the hiring investment banks did not encourage them. But as discussed in other posts, they are unfortunately increasingly gaining traction at the banks and the alumni club members are hiring current club members, so it is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Which is a shame.

When I started out in banking in the dark ages, for most roles and groups, we did not ask particularly technical questions. We were mainly looking for smart, hard-working team players. We would teach them the rest. I knew English majors with no relevant internships who got hired as bankers (and succeeded). They had maintained good grades (though we also were less concerned about grades back then) while spending many hours a week leading a campus organization, holding several jobs to pay tuition, or playing a sport or instrument. So they could handle the stress and the hours.

[Anonymous]

Most clubs are open. Ones that require a talent or skill usually have a tryout.

IT WAS LIKE THIS WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER, TOO!

[Anonymous]

One thing that caught my son off guard was the need for a resume so soon. He had one but it wasn't "ready". One club reviewed it and shot him down. The one he got into they helped him revise it multiple times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most clubs are open. Ones that require a talent or skill usually have a tryout.

IT WAS LIKE THIS WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER, TOO!

STOP SCREAMING!

A pre-professional club does not require a talent or a skill. I get that there are constraints where you can't have 1,000 kids in a club. But the current way doesn't work either.

The career office at these schools should really be doing what these kids are doing. That used to be their jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:there are 27 or however many investment club, but the most prestigious investment clubs with the best name recognition among high finance recruiters / alumni network will naturally be limited in quantity.

So how exactly is this different from rushing?

[Anonymous]

My kid was rejected from a couple clubs and accepted at a couple clubs at their top-25. It’s just how things are now. However, there are plenty of other ways in which kids can be involved and meet people. Kids aren’t casually hanging out in their dorm common rooms or on the quad or at the student center as much as before (phones). So the clubs have moved in the fill the vacuum for kids who aren’t on varsity sports teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are 27 or however many investment club, but the most prestigious investment clubs with the best name recognition among high finance recruiters / alumni network will naturally be limited in quantity.

So how exactly is this different from rushing?

Exactly. People bash rushing but this doesn't seem better. When someone goes through sorority rush there is an algorithm that allows enough spots for all kids going through the process. (Yes, there are situations where someone ends up not joining for various reasons. But, the goal is to find a spot for everyone.). These clubs do not seem to be set up that way as best I can tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most clubs are open. Ones that require a talent or skill usually have a tryout.

IT WAS LIKE THIS WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER, TOO!

STOP SCREAMING!

A pre-professional club does not require a talent or a skill. I get that there are constraints where you can't have 1,000 kids in a club. But the current way doesn't work either.

The career office at these schools should really be doing what these kids are doing. That used to be their jobs.

Agree; the pre-professional clubs can help teach the skills needed for the profession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are 27 or however many investment club, but the most prestigious investment clubs with the best name recognition among high finance recruiters / alumni network will naturally be limited in quantity.

What’s the evidence that recruiters and alumni care about this when hiring?

There is none.

This is good to know.

Sadly, you're wrong. Evidence is as yet anecdotal, but research now under peer review suggests that the influence of club alumni networks in hiring, esp. for finance and consulting, is real and considerable.

Show a source.

As I wrote, the papers are currently under peer review, and thus cannot be cited. Come back to me in 18-24 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The UVA Pickleball Club has tryouts, and not everyone makes it. You’ve got to be good — really good. UVA won the 2024 Collegiate Pickleball Championship, so standards are high. Stop whining about your kids not getting into every club. Tell them to bring something worth having. Otherwise, stfu.

Lol! Who knew?

[Anonymous]

My kid is in a pre-professional club. She is horrified at the discussions they have about prospective members. They want kids that have “the look”, favor certain race/ethnicity, are snobby about SAT scores (that are years old for many of these kids who are upperclassmen, hardly seem relevant at this point when they have a college record), try to trick kids and are hostile to them in interviews, etc. She is very turned off by the club, feels excluded, and has not gotten any professional benefit. She will probably drop out.