Can someone explain the "behind in math" thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In public, standard for Algebra 1 is 7th or 8th, and some start it in 6th for average to smart kids. Kids who struggle start it in 8-9th.

That's not true. Common core has Algebra 1 as 9th grade math, Geometry in Grade 10 and Algebra 2 in 11th.

It's true that a good chunk of public school kids will do Algebra 1 in 7th grade or 8th grade, particularly in wealthy areas. A select few will do Algebra 1 in 6th grade.

FCPS is piloting Algebra 1 in 6th grade, it is believed that there are around 500 6th graders at 20 ES taking Algebra 1H this year. As it is, about 15% of FCPS 7th graders take Algebra 1H as 7th graders and 75% of all 8th graders will have completed Algebra 1, some honors some regular, by the end of 8th grade. Algebra 1 in 9th grade is for kids struggling with math. The goal in FCPS is for every student to have Algebra 1 by 8th grade.

Virginia s not a common core state, so there is that. I do think that it is more common for Algebra 1 in 8th grade to be considered accelerated in most of the US but Algebra 1 in 7th grade is not unusual in the NOVA area public schools.

Algebra in 6th?! How does that compare to other nations I wonder. And what does that progression look like, maybe

6 - algebra
7 - geometry
8- algebra 2? Do schools still do this?
9 - precalc
10 - AP Calc I
11 - AP Calc II
12 - AP Stat or a comp sci class

Based on the kids I knew at TJ who did Algebra 1 in 6th, it's:

6 - Algebra 1
7 - Geometry
8 - Algebra 2 (maybe with Trig)
9 - Precalc (with Trig if not taken with Algebra 2)
10 - AP Calc BC (that's college calc 1 & 2)
11 - Multivariable Calculus (calc 3) / Linear Algebra
12 - Differential Equations / Complex Analysis

Getting you basically a college minor in math before you even set foot on campus, assuming the 11th and 12th grade classes are dual enrolled somewhere you can get credit for at most schools - in FCPS that would be with George Mason.

Nobody takes algebra 1 in 6th in order to stretch a year of college calculus over 2 years of high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

You are the one who doesn't get it. College admissions see right through the nonsense of taking "Multivariable Calculus" or "Differential Equations" taught by a computer or a high school math teacher.

Are you stupid? Maybe you haven't experienced college admissions recently? The kids are judged according to what's available at their high school. If the high school has post-AP calc courses, such as multivariable calculus, which is usually taught by a dual enrollment teacher, the counselor can only check the box of "has taken most rigorous courses" if the student gets to multivariable. That's just one example. It's like this in every subject.

There is nothing to see right through, PP. Differential equations is differential equations no matter who teaches it. It means you've taken a shitload of other math first, and your SAT and AP exam scores are proof that you've mastered algebra and calculus, respectively. You can be jealous all you want, but college admissions officers do respect that sort of math track.

- scientist.

Ohhhhh wowwww your post is so much more legitimate since you signed it "scientist". Everyone in the thread clapped.

[Anonymous]

My child is in the accelerated math in a public school in Bethesda. The accelerated track is Algebra in 7th. My child’s friend who attends Holton commented last year that she was embarrassed when she saw my child’s math book because it was clear the public school math was a year ahead.

[Anonymous]

My kid took Alg 2 in 8th. She's in Linear now as a senior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is in the accelerated math in a public school in Bethesda. The accelerated track is Algebra in 7th. My child’s friend who attends Holton commented last year that she was embarrassed when she saw my child’s math book because it was clear the public school math was a year ahead.

The only thing your friend should be embarrassed about is the belief that MCPS is a good reference point to use when it comes to academic achievement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is in the accelerated math in a public school in Bethesda. The accelerated track is Algebra in 7th. My child’s friend who attends Holton commented last year that she was embarrassed when she saw my child’s math book because it was clear the public school math was a year ahead.

So the on-level track is Algebra in 8th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in the accelerated math in a public school in Bethesda. The accelerated track is Algebra in 7th. My child’s friend who attends Holton commented last year that she was embarrassed when she saw my child’s math book because it was clear the public school math was a year ahead.

So the on-level track is Algebra in 8th?

DP. Algebra in 8th has been the on-level track for both the k-8 and k-12 DC has attended.

[Anonymous]

DC: where the joy of learning and intellectual curiosity go to die.

[Anonymous]

At our school most students take Algebra in 8th, geometry in 9th, algebra 2 in 10th, pre calculus in 11, and calculus AB or BC in 12th.

Initially I found this annoying when I realized my kids could be a year farther ahead if they went to our local public school but our school had strong reasoning behind it. Some reasons: the SAT and ACT only cover through algebra 2 so you don’t want to be years beyond that when you take those tests. Most people never need calculus let alone something beyond and the few who do should take that in college. Focusing on math acceleration leaves less time for other academic and non-academic interests and they would rather push everyone to be extremely well read, play sports, and do some arts. Colleges ask if you’ve taken the highest classes offered and pretty much everyone can say yes.

Judging by the selective college admissions at our school it seems their sequence doesn’t stop anyone from being admitted to top schools and I know of several grads who have gone successfully into STEM. You could say we’re “behind public schools” but it seems like we’re just on a different path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It means that to stay competitive with Asia, public schools offer accelerated tracks. Privates haven't found it worth their while to do that.

My kid is in MCPS and did Algebra 2 in 8th grade. This is not a publicly-available track - parents need to know to ask for it, and it's allowed on a case by case basis by the math coordinator at the middle school.

No, it is not just Asia. US is not even competitive with many other European nations. Within US, the achievement gap between Asian-Americans, White, Hispanics and Blacks is also very vast.

Only 30% of White men have gone to college in US. And this is the most priviledged class of citizens. Pathetic.

French person here. Not sure about other European countries, but I don't think they're all that advanced. They are more rigorous, which is sometimes not the same thing. Meaning, maybe they don't reach advanced calc in 12th grade, but what they do teach, they teach well.

I'll tell you what makes it harder to teach: heterogenous populations, namely -
1. Needing to integrate a large contingent that doesn't speak the home country's language;
2. And being obligated by law to integrate students with special needs.

The USA is the country that does best in these two things. In France, you're lucky if a student with special needs is not bullied at school, sometimes by the teacher. They're not going to receive much in terms of services and accommodations. The kids with the gravest needs stay home, unlike here, in my kids' public school, where I see children who are very impacted by their issues and who have aides and paraeducators and pullouts and case managers. And for the foreign kids, in my country, they're told to go two grades below their actual age to catch up.

So even though the US may not have the best academic scores in international comparative tests... please read between the lines. I would rather live in a country that doesn't shut its doors to kids with special needs, and puts English language learners with their peers.

I agree that those are the two biggest issues that American public schools face. In order to do those things well, public schools need more federal funding. Special education is mandated by federal law, but is not (adequately) federally funded. Further, what about the needs of the other students who are not special education students or English Learners? Often, these students receive no attention after the staff directs most resources to these two groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It means that to stay competitive with Asia, public schools offer accelerated tracks. Privates haven't found it worth their while to do that.

My kid is in MCPS and did Algebra 2 in 8th grade. This is not a publicly-available track - parents need to know to ask for it, and it's allowed on a case by case basis by the math coordinator at the middle school.

No, it is not just Asia. US is not even competitive with many other European nations. Within US, the achievement gap between Asian-Americans, White, Hispanics and Blacks is also very vast.

Only 30% of White men have gone to college in US. And this is the most priviledged class of citizens. Pathetic.

French person here. Not sure about other European countries, but I don't think they're all that advanced. They are more rigorous, which is sometimes not the same thing. Meaning, maybe they don't reach advanced calc in 12th grade, but what they do teach, they teach well.

I'll tell you what makes it harder to teach: heterogenous populations, namely -
1. Needing to integrate a large contingent that doesn't speak the home country's language;
2. And being obligated by law to integrate students with special needs.

The USA is the country that does best in these two things. In France, you're lucky if a student with special needs is not bullied at school, sometimes by the teacher. They're not going to receive much in terms of services and accommodations. The kids with the gravest needs stay home, unlike here, in my kids' public school, where I see children who are very impacted by their issues and who have aides and paraeducators and pullouts and case managers. And for the foreign kids, in my country, they're told to go two grades below their actual age to catch up.

So even though the US may not have the best academic scores in international comparative tests... please read between the lines. I would rather live in a country that doesn't shut its doors to kids with special needs, and puts English language learners with their peers.

I agree that those are the two biggest issues that American public schools face. In order to do those things well, public schools need more federal funding. Special education is mandated by federal law, but is not (adequately) federally funded. Further, what about the needs of the other students who are not special education students or English Learners? Often, these students receive no attention after the staff directs most resources to these two groups.

FCPS has no funding shortage. That is a confusion. The school central administration ("Gatehouse") consumes and wastes an excessive amount of funding. It could start by cutting Gatehouse salary budget by half and spending that money on teaching actual students, special ed and others. There is a recurring thread in FCPS forum just on the "failed principal to central office" pipeline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in the accelerated math in a public school in Bethesda. The accelerated track is Algebra in 7th. My child’s friend who attends Holton commented last year that she was embarrassed when she saw my child’s math book because it was clear the public school math was a year ahead.

So the on-level track is Algebra in 8th?

In FCPS I believe there's a slight majority either in 8th or before, but it's not officially the on-level track. Depending on your middle school it might seem like it is: higher SES schools will have a large majority on that track, lower SES schools will not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in the accelerated math in a public school in Bethesda. The accelerated track is Algebra in 7th. My child’s friend who attends Holton commented last year that she was embarrassed when she saw my child’s math book because it was clear the public school math was a year ahead.

So the on-level track is Algebra in 8th?

In FCPS I believe there's a slight majority either in 8th or before, but it's not officially the on-level track. Depending on your middle school it might seem like it is: higher SES schools will have a large majority on that track, lower SES schools will not.

Interesting. The on-level track at most privates is Algebra in 8th - with as much as 1/3 to 1/2 taking geometry.

It seems like maybe public allows for much greater acceleration (Precalc in 9th or even 8th, for example, which the majority of privates - tho not all - cannot accommodate), but for those students who are not super-accelerated, the private schools actually have a base level of about a year ahead of publics for a large portion of the main population of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our school most students take Algebra in 8th, geometry in 9th, algebra 2 in 10th, pre calculus in 11, and calculus AB or BC in 12th.

Initially I found this annoying when I realized my kids could be a year farther ahead if they went to our local public school but our school had strong reasoning behind it. Some reasons: the SAT and ACT only cover through algebra 2 so you don’t want to be years beyond that when you take those tests. Most people never need calculus let alone something beyond and the few who do should take that in college. Focusing on math acceleration leaves less time for other academic and non-academic interests and they would rather push everyone to be extremely well read, play sports, and do some arts. Colleges ask if you’ve taken the highest classes offered and pretty much everyone can say yes.

Judging by the selective college admissions at our school it seems their sequence doesn’t stop anyone from being admitted to top schools and I know of several grads who have gone successfully into STEM. You could say we’re “behind public schools” but it seems like we’re just on a different path.

My kid is in accelerated path in MCPS, and is also extremely well read, plays sports, does art and music, participates in and wins science/scholastic competitions, does research internships, publishes co-authored papers and does volunteer work.

Most kids with normal brains and good upbringing can do it all. They have young and have robust Telomeres. Look it up. Old sperm leads to faulty children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in the accelerated math in a public school in Bethesda. The accelerated track is Algebra in 7th. My child’s friend who attends Holton commented last year that she was embarrassed when she saw my child’s math book because it was clear the public school math was a year ahead.

So the on-level track is Algebra in 8th?

In FCPS I believe there's a slight majority either in 8th or before, but it's not officially the on-level track. Depending on your middle school it might seem like it is: higher SES schools will have a large majority on that track, lower SES schools will not.

Interesting. The on-level track at most privates is Algebra in 8th - with as much as 1/3 to 1/2 taking geometry.

It seems like maybe public allows for much greater acceleration (Precalc in 9th or even 8th, for example, which the majority of privates - tho not all - cannot accommodate), but for those students who are not super-accelerated, the private schools actually have a base level of about a year ahead of publics for a large portion of the main population of students.

Quoted PP here. This was our experience going from a public in FCPS to a private. The elementary curriculum at our private has kids about half a year ahead of gen ed math (which was half the ES) / half a year behind advanced math (which was half the ES but it was an AAP center - only about 25% of kids whose base was that school) by 5th, and 5th is when kids can accelerate a full year for the first time under the normal pathways. It's possible for kids who are legitimately struggling to drop back a little further in upper school at our private, though, to the "normal" track for public.

Our school does allow pathways for precalc in 9th, but discourages it pretty strongly.