High test score kids who didn't get in where they thought they would

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

The number comes out correct, albeit it's just an estimate. Also, we are talking about this year, not in the past years.

6 ivies are test required. 25% of all admits: ~3500
12 other T20 are test optional, ~1/8 of all admits: ~3500

6000-8000 1570+ go to T20. It's an estimate, I can assure you the number would not be 700. It's in that range.

Ok, I follow you that far. But 6,000-8,000 is less than half of your ~17,000 students scoring 1570+. (And where is that number from? Percentiles?) Almost all these schools super score, too, so if your 17,000 is not super-scored, then the real pool is quite a bit larger. And even assuming the pool is only 17,000, the conclusion would still be that the majority of 1570+ students DO NOT attend T20 private schools.

And I’d want to see some numbers on how many high-scoring kids are at small LACs or merit-granting privates as opposed to large state schools. Schools like Williams and Grinnell are small, and so far as I know all are test optional. Yet you have them enrolling more than twice as many high-scoring kids as large, test-required state schools like Purdue and Georgia. Why?

That's good enough. I am always amazed by people debating minor details on this site.
7000/17000 (or "a bit larger") is good enough for me.
Maybe a DP will pick up this and continue the exchange.

Well I’m asking for those of us with 1570+ kids who don’t have a shot at T20s. They have to go somewhere, and it would be nice if they could go somewhere where there is a healthy peer group of similarly smart kids. Sue me for trying to figure out where that might be.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

PP. I also did the estimate for those who didn't end up at T20s. It's the same methodology for T20 (which you agreed on). Again, this is just an estimate, going through the accuracy of each item one by one is rather time consuming. But I assure you the estimate is not far off. For example, it's going to be 4000 not 400 for "other top privates."

[Anonymous]

Will there be any case where 1570+ ending up at T100? I am sure. But we are talking about the big picture here.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

The number comes out correct, albeit it's just an estimate. Also, we are talking about this year, not in the past years.

6 ivies are test required. 25% of all admits: ~3500
12 other T20 are test optional, ~1/8 of all admits: ~3500

6000-8000 1570+ go to T20. It's an estimate, I can assure you the number would not be 700. It's in that range.

Ok, I follow you that far. But 6,000-8,000 is less than half of your ~17,000 students scoring 1570+. (And where is that number from? Percentiles?) Almost all these schools super score, too, so if your 17,000 is not super-scored, then the real pool is quite a bit larger. And even assuming the pool is only 17,000, the conclusion would still be that the majority of 1570+ students DO NOT attend T20 private schools.

And I’d want to see some numbers on how many high-scoring kids are at small LACs or merit-granting privates as opposed to large state schools. Schools like Williams and Grinnell are small, and so far as I know all are test optional. Yet you have them enrolling more than twice as many high-scoring kids as large, test-required state schools like Purdue and Georgia. Why?

That's good enough. I am always amazed by people debating minor details on this site.
7000/17000 (or "a bit larger") is good enough for me.
Maybe a DP will pick up this and continue the exchange.

Well I’m asking for those of us with 1570+ kids who don’t have a shot at T20s. They have to go somewhere, and it would be nice if they could go somewhere where there is a healthy peer group of similarly smart kids. Sue me for trying to figure out where that might be.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

PP. I also did the estimate for those who didn't end up at T20s. It's the same methodology for T20 (which you agreed on). Again, this is just an estimate, going through the accuracy of each item one by one is rather time consuming. But I assure you the estimate is not far off. For example, it's going to be 4000 not 400 for "other top privates."

But your methodology for the T20 depended on knowing that the 75th percentile score at those schools was close to 1570. None of these other schools has a 75th percentile score that high. How do you figure how many high-scoring students attend? Are you just assuming a bell curve and eyeballing it?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Are ppl willing to share generic profiles over last 2 years for high test score kids results (year, stats, major, public/private HS, general ECs, spike/hook)?

Curious where the high-test-score kids end up, and for which major.

What do you consider high?

35/1550

lol you're an idiot.

I think that is generally what is considered “high” test scores by most top 20s, college counselors, reddit forums, etc.

Chances 1550+ not getting into T20 much lower than 1500. Simple math.

As much as you’d like to believe this, it’s simply not the way that it works.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are ppl willing to share generic profiles over last 2 years for high test score kids results (year, stats, major, public/private HS, general ECs, spike/hook)?

Curious where the high-test-score kids end up, and for which major.

35 ACT, 4.8 GPA, NMF, and all the right things (EC, leadership, full pay), did not get into MI

Major?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From my small sample size (30 or so friends and neighbors in the past few years), a key factor is the high school. Some high-stat kids get into multiple top 15 colleges without cancer-curing level ECs and the common denominator seems to be a HS top colleges already accepts from every year. These kids are otherwise non big donors/legacy, non athletes. Whenever I hear from a friend their DC has high stats and is choosing between Yale and Williams for ED and then 5 months later I hear they ended up at a still great but below top 40 schools, usually they come from a non JT level public or a good but not well-known private. Aiming too high coming from an unconnected HS is a risky move.

100% this. If from an unconnected school, apply RD to selective schools.

[Anonymous]

I’ll add that if a student is from an unconnected high school, they will most likely be rejected unless they are Val and have 1600 and rigorous schedule and fabulous ECs and LORs. This is because apps are evaluated in context, so one exceptional kid can raise the bar for the rest of the applicants from that high school.

Case in point: several kids from DCs class were deferred early round at elites. When DC applied RD, DC was either admitted or waitlisted, the rest were rejected. Know your competition!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are ppl willing to share generic profiles over last 2 years for high test score kids results (year, stats, major, public/private HS, general ECs, spike/hook)?

Curious where the high-test-score kids end up, and for which major.

35 ACT, 4.8 GPA, NMF, and all the right things (EC, leadership, full pay), did not get into MI

1600 SAT, 3.9 GPA, NMS, good ECs - mostly co-curricular, not many leadership roles at all, full pay — admitted to MI and several other schools (HYPSM — not all, but a couple).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are ppl willing to share generic profiles over last 2 years for high test score kids results (year, stats, major, public/private HS, general ECs, spike/hook)?

Curious where the high-test-score kids end up, and for which major.

35 ACT, 4.8 GPA, NMF, and all the right things (EC, leadership, full pay), did not get into MI

1600 SAT, 3.9 GPA, NMS, good ECs - mostly co-curricular, not many leadership roles at all, full pay — admitted to MI and several other schools (HYPSM — not all, but a couple).

major?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

Ivies have always been for the elite, connected and unicorns. Never a meritocracy! This factoid seem to escape folks every year.. especially among first generation parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:2 1550+ students from my kid’s school rejected SCEA from Yale. Both very strong applicants apart from test scores/GPA.

Student 1 bio major (applied to no other Ivies)
In at Northwestern, Tufts, Emory, Duke ,Pomona among others

Student 2 in at Berkeley, UVA, and Cornell among others

And you know these details about other people's kids, how exactly? Stop making up BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2 1550+ students from my kid’s school rejected SCEA from Yale. Both very strong applicants apart from test scores/GPA.

Student 1 bio major (applied to no other Ivies)
In at Northwestern, Tufts, Emory, Duke ,Pomona among others

Student 2 in at Berkeley, UVA, and Cornell among others

And you know these details about other people's kids, how exactly? Stop making up BS.

Student 1 is her kid.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

The number comes out correct, albeit it's just an estimate. Also, we are talking about this year, not in the past years.

6 ivies are test required. 25% of all admits: ~3500
12 other T20 are test optional, ~1/8 of all admits: ~3500

6000-8000 1570+ go to T20. It's an estimate, I can assure you the number would not be 700. It's in that range.

Ok, I follow you that far. But 6,000-8,000 is less than half of your ~17,000 students scoring 1570+. (And where is that number from? Percentiles?) Almost all these schools super score, too, so if your 17,000 is not super-scored, then the real pool is quite a bit larger. And even assuming the pool is only 17,000, the conclusion would still be that the majority of 1570+ students DO NOT attend T20 private schools.

And I’d want to see some numbers on how many high-scoring kids are at small LACs or merit-granting privates as opposed to large state schools. Schools like Williams and Grinnell are small, and so far as I know all are test optional. Yet you have them enrolling more than twice as many high-scoring kids as large, test-required state schools like Purdue and Georgia. Why?

That's good enough. I am always amazed by people debating minor details on this site.
7000/17000 (or "a bit larger") is good enough for me.
Maybe a DP will pick up this and continue the exchange.

Well I’m asking for those of us with 1570+ kids who don’t have a shot at T20s. They have to go somewhere, and it would be nice if they could go somewhere where there is a healthy peer group of similarly smart kids. Sue me for trying to figure out where that might be.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

PP. I also did the estimate for those who didn't end up at T20s. It's the same methodology for T20 (which you agreed on). Again, this is just an estimate, going through the accuracy of each item one by one is rather time consuming. But I assure you the estimate is not far off. For example, it's going to be 4000 not 400 for "other top privates."

NP. Please provide your sources when listing a bunch of numbers. Where are you getting this from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

Look at pre-test optional (2020-21 CDs, ie arrived on campus fall 2020): most of the top 15 privates (Ivy+) had enroilled-student CDS data listing 1560 or 1570 as the 75th%ile. TO did not change the 75th # at the top schools.
Vanderbilt is included among those that did. They used to brag about it on their info sessions before tours: they would post the SAT ranges and specifically say top -8 SAT-ranges in the country and such. We toured with our DC'20 back in spring 2019. They flipped and became fairly pro-TO and focused on yield, but they used to be known for preferring very high SAT scores, ED and RD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most high-scoring kids wind up at the major flagships (Michigan, Georgia, Purdue, Rutgers, etc.). There just aren’t that many seats at the elite privates, and many of them are reserved for wealthy/connected/athletic students.

There are only ~17,000 1570+ students per year.

T20 75 percentile cutoff line typically at 1570. 25% of T20 admits have 1570+.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

You know that UCLA and Berkeley are actually top 20s, right?

They are test blind. But many high scorers attend these schools happily.

The point is, the number of 1570+ at T20 (other than UCs) can be estimated because the 75 percentile line is typically 1570.

But (at least in recent years) they’re mostly test optional, so the number of kids scoring 1570+ is only 25% of kids submitting scores, or less than 25% of the student body. Eg at Vanderbilt (#18), half of all students were TO, so even though the 75th percentile score is 1560, that only represents 1/8th of the student body. The cutoff for the top 25% of the class would be the median reported score, which was 1540. If you assume that 25% of students at Vandy scored 1570+, you’d be dramatically overstating the number of seats at Vandy available for high-scoring students.

The number comes out correct, albeit it's just an estimate. Also, we are talking about this year, not in the past years.

6 ivies are test required. 25% of all admits: ~3500
12 other T20 are test optional, ~1/8 of all admits: ~3500

6000-8000 1570+ go to T20. It's an estimate, I can assure you the number would not be 700. It's in that range.

Ok, I follow you that far. But 6,000-8,000 is less than half of your ~17,000 students scoring 1570+. (And where is that number from? Percentiles?) Almost all these schools super score, too, so if your 17,000 is not super-scored, then the real pool is quite a bit larger. And even assuming the pool is only 17,000, the conclusion would still be that the majority of 1570+ students DO NOT attend T20 private schools.

And I’d want to see some numbers on how many high-scoring kids are at small LACs or merit-granting privates as opposed to large state schools. Schools like Williams and Grinnell are small, and so far as I know all are test optional. Yet you have them enrolling more than twice as many high-scoring kids as large, test-required state schools like Purdue and Georgia. Why?

That's good enough. I am always amazed by people debating minor details on this site.
7000/17000 (or "a bit larger") is good enough for me.
Maybe a DP will pick up this and continue the exchange.

Well I’m asking for those of us with 1570+ kids who don’t have a shot at T20s. They have to go somewhere, and it would be nice if they could go somewhere where there is a healthy peer group of similarly smart kids. Sue me for trying to figure out where that might be.

~7000 1570+ go to T20.
~4000 1570+ other top private, SLACs, Stern, Ross, Georgetown, USC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to flagships, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Georgia Tech, UNC, etc.
~3000 1570+ to merit (full or half tuition), Case Western, Grinell, Rochester, etc.

PP. I also did the estimate for those who didn't end up at T20s. It's the same methodology for T20 (which you agreed on). Again, this is just an estimate, going through the accuracy of each item one by one is rather time consuming. But I assure you the estimate is not far off. For example, it's going to be 4000 not 400 for "other top privates."

NP. Please provide your sources when listing a bunch of numbers. Where are you getting this from?

It seems to be a lot of assumptions and back-of-the-envelope estimates.