Why do we have ageism in a dynamic labor market?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The age 50+ people at my job are almost always tech illiterate.

This makes zero sense. My 70yo mother was a first computer buyer. Stayed with every form of tech as it came. Learned every new feature along the way.

It’s an old idea that older people don’t know tech. You’re thinking about 70yos from 25 years ago.

I’m 40 and I know all of it too. 40, 50 were kids like the now iPad kids. I would say we know more bc we were in layers of computing that young people just expect to push an app feature and fix (that doesn’t work).

Gen z etc is more experimental with app features, I’ll give you that. Because they were like 13 and didn’t give a $*** if they published an awkward video at first. They got better.

I'm also 40 and work on a computer daily. It's always the older people (but not all of them) bugging other people to help get their workstation going after some basic problem. And then once it's running, they are still slow working basic functionality of the job itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The age 50+ people at my job are almost always tech illiterate.

This makes zero sense. My 70yo mother was a first computer buyer. Stayed with every form of tech as it came. Learned every new feature along the way.

It’s an old idea that older people don’t know tech. You’re thinking about 70yos from 25 years ago.

I’m 40 and I know all of it too. 40, 50 were kids like the now iPad kids. I would say we know more bc we were in layers of computing that young people just expect to push an app feature and fix (that doesn’t work).

Gen z etc is more experimental with app features, I’ll give you that. Because they were like 13 and didn’t give a $*** if they published an awkward video at first. They got better.

I'm also 40 and work on a computer daily. It's always the older people (but not all of them) bugging other people to help get their workstation going after some basic problem. And then once it's running, they are still slow working basic functionality of the job itself.

It’s normal that younger people have more up-to-date skills, as they’ve just been at university, whether in IT or some other disciplines. They’ve been studying all day at school and that’s their job to learn. Older employees have more experience and typically more maturity to handle issues that come up and capacity to lead people.

Not true in every case obviously but some Labor market theory finds that younger employees are generally paid below the value they create for their company while older employees are paid above it. It evens out over a lifetime.

[Anonymous]

New Web Site for Job Searches - https://www.jobs.now

The Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply - https://www.newsweek.com/h1b-jobs-now-america...-green-cards-2041404

This site is awesome because it finds job listings meant to only be seen by H1Bs. Every American application to the job prevents it from being given to an H-1B.

So these employers conduct phony labor market tests, advertising the jobs in obscure newspapers in the hope that no American sees them. This website takes those hidden ads and posts them online. If Americans apply, the labor market test fails, and the H-1B’s green card is temporarily suspended until they try again.

Every qualified American should apply to these jobs so it creates headaches for the company where they’ll think twice about sponsoring visas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of workers are lazy in their 20s to 40s and it bites them later in career.

For example I have a 38 year old guy in my dept, nice enough, mediocre college, mediocre grades, bs major. Likes to WFH most days and when comes in he is running for door like building in fired at 425 pm.

No certifications. No graduate degree, no name brand companies on resume, half ass LinkedIn, does zero networking in work or out of work, little sloppy of a dresser.

He is good enough to get job done. No complaints about that. He is type of guy tell him what to do he does it. But not a free thinker.

What happens when he is let go at 55?

I would be expecting by 55, he managed staff, had a certification, MBA, good dresser, professional LinkedIn profile, maybe spoke some conferences, some name brand companies, worked in some interesting things.

It is a pyramid scheme there are way less VP and up jobs than staff. So at 55 he is way too old staff and way less qualified than the other 55 year olds

He most likely if stays my company does his little job he may find we merged, got a new boss and out he goes.

But his little pee brain at 38 does not realize he is 12 years to 50 and once 50 he is toast unless he ups his game

Not everyone is born with that knowledge. Have you stopped and explained any of this to him?

I think many LMC people who are smart think they get a job and do it well but they don’t have to advance but stay in their niche (often times they prefer the IC work rather than managing people — I mean an MBA and certificates are such worthless things 90% of the time). But their world experience is from family working in factories or as teachers or whatever where you mostly stay in your one role.

Our economy def has up or out culture. Not as direct as the competitive job families but the market just does it.
I tried to voice it a few times but the posters here are eager to tell me I have shitty personality. They have better personalities so they are immune to this.
Guess who is wrong now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of workers are lazy in their 20s to 40s and it bites them later in career.

For example I have a 38 year old guy in my dept, nice enough, mediocre college, mediocre grades, bs major. Likes to WFH most days and when comes in he is running for door like building in fired at 425 pm.

No certifications. No graduate degree, no name brand companies on resume, half ass LinkedIn, does zero networking in work or out of work, little sloppy of a dresser.

He is good enough to get job done. No complaints about that. He is type of guy tell him what to do he does it. But not a free thinker.

What happens when he is let go at 55?

I would be expecting by 55, he managed staff, had a certification, MBA, good dresser, professional LinkedIn profile, maybe spoke some conferences, some name brand companies, worked in some interesting things.

It is a pyramid scheme there are way less VP and up jobs than staff. So at 55 he is way too old staff and way less qualified than the other 55 year olds

He most likely if stays my company does his little job he may find we merged, got a new boss and out he goes.

But his little pee brain at 38 does not realize he is 12 years to 50 and once 50 he is toast unless he ups his game

So ageism is okay because he’s too old to be staff?

PP was in accounting, in accounting, 27 years old is too old to be staff (entry level).

I got my masters before joining big 4 at age 25. So I got quarterly talk from my mentor how I needed to "catch up" with the other "21" year olds. The message was that despite the same title and salary, by being a couple years old automatically sets my performance bar higher. That was the worst way to spend one's life in their 20s stressed and miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of workers are lazy in their 20s to 40s and it bites them later in career.

For example I have a 38 year old guy in my dept, nice enough, mediocre college, mediocre grades, bs major. Likes to WFH most days and when comes in he is running for door like building in fired at 425 pm.

No certifications. No graduate degree, no name brand companies on resume, half ass LinkedIn, does zero networking in work or out of work, little sloppy of a dresser.

He is good enough to get job done. No complaints about that. He is type of guy tell him what to do he does it. But not a free thinker.

What happens when he is let go at 55?

I would be expecting by 55, he managed staff, had a certification, MBA, good dresser, professional LinkedIn profile, maybe spoke some conferences, some name brand companies, worked in some interesting things.

It is a pyramid scheme there are way less VP and up jobs than staff. So at 55 he is way too old staff and way less qualified than the other 55 year olds

He most likely if stays my company does his little job he may find we merged, got a new boss and out he goes.

But his little pee brain at 38 does not realize he is 12 years to 50 and once 50 he is toast unless he ups his game

Not everyone is born with that knowledge. Have you stopped and explained any of this to him?

I think many LMC people who are smart think they get a job and do it well but they don’t have to advance but stay in their niche (often times they prefer the IC work rather than managing people — I mean an MBA and certificates are such worthless things 90% of the time). But their world experience is from family working in factories or as teachers or whatever where you mostly stay in your one role.

Our economy def has up or out culture. Not as direct as the competitive job families but the market just does it.
I tried to voice it a few times but the posters here are eager to tell me I have shitty personality. They have better personalities so they are immune to this.
Guess who is wrong now.

But up or out is nonsensical, since most of the times people are promoted for relationships and affinity with leadership. It’s why white men still make up most executives , yet are a smaller minority of college graduates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of workers are lazy in their 20s to 40s and it bites them later in career.

For example I have a 38 year old guy in my dept, nice enough, mediocre college, mediocre grades, bs major. Likes to WFH most days and when comes in he is running for door like building in fired at 425 pm.

No certifications. No graduate degree, no name brand companies on resume, half ass LinkedIn, does zero networking in work or out of work, little sloppy of a dresser.

He is good enough to get job done. No complaints about that. He is type of guy tell him what to do he does it. But not a free thinker.

What happens when he is let go at 55?

I would be expecting by 55, he managed staff, had a certification, MBA, good dresser, professional LinkedIn profile, maybe spoke some conferences, some name brand companies, worked in some interesting things.

It is a pyramid scheme there are way less VP and up jobs than staff. So at 55 he is way too old staff and way less qualified than the other 55 year olds

He most likely if stays my company does his little job he may find we merged, got a new boss and out he goes.

But his little pee brain at 38 does not realize he is 12 years to 50 and once 50 he is toast unless he ups his game

Not everyone is born with that knowledge. Have you stopped and explained any of this to him?

I think many LMC people who are smart think they get a job and do it well but they don’t have to advance but stay in their niche (often times they prefer the IC work rather than managing people — I mean an MBA and certificates are such worthless things 90% of the time). But their world experience is from family working in factories or as teachers or whatever where you mostly stay in your one role.

Our economy def has up or out culture. Not as direct as the competitive job families but the market just does it.
I tried to voice it a few times but the posters here are eager to tell me I have shitty personality. They have better personalities so they are immune to this.
Guess who is wrong now.

But up or out is nonsensical, since most of the times people are promoted for relationships and affinity with leadership. It’s why white men still make up most executives , yet are a smaller minority of college graduates.

non sensical yes, not fair, yes.
but is it happening? yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of workers are lazy in their 20s to 40s and it bites them later in career.

For example I have a 38 year old guy in my dept, nice enough, mediocre college, mediocre grades, bs major. Likes to WFH most days and when comes in he is running for door like building in fired at 425 pm.

No certifications. No graduate degree, no name brand companies on resume, half ass LinkedIn, does zero networking in work or out of work, little sloppy of a dresser.

He is good enough to get job done. No complaints about that. He is type of guy tell him what to do he does it. But not a free thinker.

What happens when he is let go at 55?

I would be expecting by 55, he managed staff, had a certification, MBA, good dresser, professional LinkedIn profile, maybe spoke some conferences, some name brand companies, worked in some interesting things.

It is a pyramid scheme there are way less VP and up jobs than staff. So at 55 he is way too old staff and way less qualified than the other 55 year olds

He most likely if stays my company does his little job he may find we merged, got a new boss and out he goes.

But his little pee brain at 38 does not realize he is 12 years to 50 and once 50 he is toast unless he ups his game

Not everyone is born with that knowledge. Have you stopped and explained any of this to him?

I think many LMC people who are smart think they get a job and do it well but they don’t have to advance but stay in their niche (often times they prefer the IC work rather than managing people — I mean an MBA and certificates are such worthless things 90% of the time). But their world experience is from family working in factories or as teachers or whatever where you mostly stay in your one role.

Our economy def has up or out culture. Not as direct as the competitive job families but the market just does it.
I tried to voice it a few times but the posters here are eager to tell me I have shitty personality. They have better personalities so they are immune to this.
Guess who is wrong now.

But up or out is nonsensical, since most of the times people are promoted for relationships and affinity with leadership. It’s why white men still make up most executives , yet are a smaller minority of college graduates.

non sensical yes, not fair, yes.
but is it happening? yes.

My point is you are disparaging people for not advancing, when really it isn’t up to them. So it would be more useful to suggest better solutions. In the past, nonprofits and govt work valued experience and didn’t suffer ageism, but that industry is closed so what is a 50 year old IC supposed to do? An MBA would be pointless, and in general unless top 10 it’s worthless anyways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of workers are lazy in their 20s to 40s and it bites them later in career.

For example I have a 38 year old guy in my dept, nice enough, mediocre college, mediocre grades, bs major. Likes to WFH most days and when comes in he is running for door like building in fired at 425 pm.

No certifications. No graduate degree, no name brand companies on resume, half ass LinkedIn, does zero networking in work or out of work, little sloppy of a dresser.

He is good enough to get job done. No complaints about that. He is type of guy tell him what to do he does it. But not a free thinker.

What happens when he is let go at 55?

I would be expecting by 55, he managed staff, had a certification, MBA, good dresser, professional LinkedIn profile, maybe spoke some conferences, some name brand companies, worked in some interesting things.

It is a pyramid scheme there are way less VP and up jobs than staff. So at 55 he is way too old staff and way less qualified than the other 55 year olds

He most likely if stays my company does his little job he may find we merged, got a new boss and out he goes.

But his little pee brain at 38 does not realize he is 12 years to 50 and once 50 he is toast unless he ups his game

Not everyone is born with that knowledge. Have you stopped and explained any of this to him?

I think many LMC people who are smart think they get a job and do it well but they don’t have to advance but stay in their niche (often times they prefer the IC work rather than managing people — I mean an MBA and certificates are such worthless things 90% of the time). But their world experience is from family working in factories or as teachers or whatever where you mostly stay in your one role.

Our economy def has up or out culture. Not as direct as the competitive job families but the market just does it.
I tried to voice it a few times but the posters here are eager to tell me I have shitty personality. They have better personalities so they are immune to this.
Guess who is wrong now.

But up or out is nonsensical, since most of the times people are promoted for relationships and affinity with leadership. It’s why white men still make up most executives , yet are a smaller minority of college graduates.

non sensical yes, not fair, yes.
but is it happening? yes.

My point is you are disparaging people for not advancing, when really it isn’t up to them. So it would be more useful to suggest better solutions. In the past, nonprofits and govt work valued experience and didn’t suffer ageism, but that industry is closed so what is a 50 year old IC supposed to do? An MBA would be pointless, and in general unless top 10 it’s worthless anyways.

I am not disparaging anyone.

I am still figuring out how to survive this culture of up or out myself.

If we can't discuss facts, then that's called being delusional.

[Anonymous]

Our system rewards winners and punish losers. That's all. It's absolutely heartless. I'm glad I survived this system. I am 64 and retiring next year. When I reflect back on my career site I have made a lot of money, we are the envy of the world. But at what cost? My health is poor (yes I blame myself for not prioritizing fitness and chasing $$ instead). But then I look around and 9/10 men in my cohort are in similarly poor health. Yes we have money in this country,but at what cost?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of workers are lazy in their 20s to 40s and it bites them later in career.

For example I have a 38 year old guy in my dept, nice enough, mediocre college, mediocre grades, bs major. Likes to WFH most days and when comes in he is running for door like building in fired at 425 pm.

No certifications. No graduate degree, no name brand companies on resume, half ass LinkedIn, does zero networking in work or out of work, little sloppy of a dresser.

He is good enough to get job done. No complaints about that. He is type of guy tell him what to do he does it. But not a free thinker.

What happens when he is let go at 55?

I would be expecting by 55, he managed staff, had a certification, MBA, good dresser, professional LinkedIn profile, maybe spoke some conferences, some name brand companies, worked in some interesting things.

It is a pyramid scheme there are way less VP and up jobs than staff. So at 55 he is way too old staff and way less qualified than the other 55 year olds

He most likely if stays my company does his little job he may find we merged, got a new boss and out he goes.

But his little pee brain at 38 does not realize he is 12 years to 50 and once 50 he is toast unless he ups his game

So ageism is okay because he’s too old to be staff?

PP was in accounting, in accounting, 27 years old is too old to be staff (entry level).

I got my masters before joining big 4 at age 25. So I got quarterly talk from my mentor how I needed to "catch up" with the other "21" year olds. The message was that despite the same title and salary, by being a couple years old automatically sets my performance bar higher. That was the worst way to spend one's life in their 20s stressed and miserable.

A 20-something is too old to start in accounting? Uh oh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our system rewards winners and punish losers. That's all. It's absolutely heartless. I'm glad I survived this system. I am 64 and retiring next year. When I reflect back on my career site I have made a lot of money, we are the envy of the world. But at what cost? My health is poor (yes I blame myself for not prioritizing fitness and chasing $$ instead). But then I look around and 9/10 men in my cohort are in similarly poor health. Yes we have money in this country,but at what cost?

Omg, someone working in their job doing a good work but not advancing is not a fing loser. That mentality is why we have so many problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cost. Perception is experienced people want more money than young people.

+1. If older people are willing to accept a starting salary, then they will be hired more easily.

Untrue. Younger workers are afraid older workers will take their jobs and refuse to hire them. Younger workers grew up with little exposure to people outside their age cohort. So, they can’t see der workers as anything but their parents or parents’ friends instead of seeing them as colleagues. I’ve seen this dynamic become more and more prevalent over time. They are angry if a person in their 60s/70s who still needs to work. This week I saw that play out on LinkedIn. It was awful. This 70yo shared his experience finding job at visage after a layoff. He gave people encouragement — and they took him down like a pack of wolves. It was awful.

This. These Gen Zers can be a ruthless, selfish, mean angry bunch. They have spent too much of their lives on screens and too little interacting with other human beings. It doesn’t bode well for the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work with a bunch of people under 35 and they are totally clueless. I would hire someone in their fifties or sixties any day over these insufferable twits.

And those under 35 people have never seen a bad job market. The 2008 Financial crisis is something they barely remember.

I recall in 4th quarter 1991 in recession we get 1,000 applicants a junior audit job. Back when you applied via physical mail. My VP said show to HR show me only people with CPAs, Big 4, and direct industry experience. Still to many than added only T20 schools. He got it down to 8-10 resumes. Something similar happened in 4Q of 2008 but not electronic we get 2,000 to 3,000 applications.


That’s when sorting happens. People under 35 have never seen a bad job market other than Covid blip.

And when it goes bad I say people who said who needs a MBA or work big 4 or network is screwed.

Sandy Springs Bank laid off some dead wood in merger this summer. Folks sittting in cubes 10-25 years at a soon to be forgotten small bank, good luck

NP. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on entering the job market as an older, yet new accountant. Master’s, CPA eligible. Because that’s the situation I’m about to be in.

I’d say you’re in a not great position. I’m a CPA in management at a federal agency and I see similar situations with employees who somehow made it to the GS-14 or even GS-15 level in accounting without a CPA or masters degree and are 100% incompetent in anything involving detailed analysis or actual knowledge of financial management concepts. AI is going to change routine mundane work and these people need to step it up or get out. There are many that are younger too. I’m late 30s and I’ve managed others in their 30s to mid-40s who don’t have a damn clue what they’re doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work with a bunch of people under 35 and they are totally clueless. I would hire someone in their fifties or sixties any day over these insufferable twits.

And those under 35 people have never seen a bad job market. The 2008 Financial crisis is something they barely remember.

I recall in 4th quarter 1991 in recession we get 1,000 applicants a junior audit job. Back when you applied via physical mail. My VP said show to HR show me only people with CPAs, Big 4, and direct industry experience. Still to many than added only T20 schools. He got it down to 8-10 resumes. Something similar happened in 4Q of 2008 but not electronic we get 2,000 to 3,000 applications.


That’s when sorting happens. People under 35 have never seen a bad job market other than Covid blip.

And when it goes bad I say people who said who needs a MBA or work big 4 or network is screwed.

Sandy Springs Bank laid off some dead wood in merger this summer. Folks sittting in cubes 10-25 years at a soon to be forgotten small bank, good luck

NP. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on entering the job market as an older, yet new accountant. Master’s, CPA eligible. Because that’s the situation I’m about to be in.

I’d say you’re in a not great position. I’m a CPA in management at a federal agency and I see similar situations with employees who somehow made it to the GS-14 or even GS-15 level in accounting without a CPA or masters degree and are 100% incompetent in anything involving detailed analysis or actual knowledge of financial management concepts. AI is going to change routine mundane work and these people need to step it up or get out. There are many that are younger too. I’m late 30s and I’ve managed others in their 30s to mid-40s who don’t have a damn clue what they’re doing.

You’re saying *with* a Master’s degree and potentially a CPA it’s still a no go?