If your kid got into their “reach” school…
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Anonymous
| Everyone does realize the very same school will have a wide variety of rigor depending on major, right? This is so silly to make these vast generalized statements. |
Anonymous
This is plain wrong! Of course there is a direct correlation between the test scores and the college performance. There is no need to sugar coat it. Every test required college has evidence after evidence of this. It’s nice to experiment a few years of test optional. Until they realize they are getting kids who need remedial math and can’t read a book! |
Anonymous
I'm sure this doesn't apply to all majors at all schools, however, it has been the overall consensus since I was a college student in the 90's that the above three schools plus Caltech are the academically difficult ones, at least for the hard sciences or engineering. |
Anonymous
Oh, and +Princeton |
Anonymous
| I have the same concern for my DS who enrolled in a Top 30, but I guess I have to have confidence in the rigor of his HS courses. My primary concern is the sufficiency of reading comprehension and writing instruction in HS, although he had no trouble with application essays at least. Conceptually well done. |
Anonymous
+ Carnegie Mellon |
Anonymous
Not necessarily a shock to them. My DD was absolutely the best from her high school in many decades. Is handling being a small, average fish in a big pond very well. We don’t push her, she does not have a 4.0, but has had an impact at her Ivy — I’ve seen notes from her peers. At the end of the day, life is about your relationships with other people and I am grateful she was given this opportunity to be with many who are like her and academically stronger too! |
Anonymous
I work with a couple of other physicians in a med school consultation service in the general DMV area though we have a growing group of NJ residents. Most students who come to us have MCAT 490-519; the true high scorers (520+) do not need us. Many of us have colleagues with grown children who went to med school: we collect data on those high scorers and their application success, but are rarely hired by them. The most common undergrad schools we see are the virginia publics but we have a variety including UGA Clemson Duke Hopkins and even some ivies. Yes there is a direct correlation between SAT and GPA, but score is not enough to predict success fully. The most common score range is 1420-1480. Some have been gutted by premed classes (mostly Cs and Bs in stem/premed courses) at w&m and uva while others are cruising through with 3.8+. Note a 3.8+ at these schools is around top 1/3, though at ivy and even JHU it is around average). The SAT is not able to separate students in the 93-98%ile range who are able to assimilate knowledge and apply it quickly from those who cannot. That being said, no one with 1530+ seems to have difficulty even in settings where the peer group is much more challenging than Wm or UVA, such as Ivies/Duke/JHU. 1530+ almost always have 3.8+ even at top schools, most have 3.9+. And their MCATs are typically over 515. I agree with PP there seems to be positive predictive power above a certain score. |
Anonymous
It was a minority of students miserable freshman year but yes this group exists at ivies. The ones that thrive are the driven, disciplined, highly independent ones. |
Anonymous
💯 this. This whole thread is bizarre. Who cares? Why are you so worried about this? Get a life. |
Anonymous
This sounds really bizarre. Your kids college friends are writing notes to you about how she has impacted their lives? wtf. |
Anonymous
They have conducted a thorough analysis on the direct correlation between SAT and MCAT. The paper was published. I am not doubting your own experience, but there is a larger scale, scientific analysis done on this exact topic. |
Anonymous
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I think you all are misguided on how everything works. Truly. Get off her and read on FB counseling groups and reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/1mr3lkz/for_aos_what_is_a_common_thing_that_makes_a/ For ao's, what is a common thing that makes a borderline candidate in vs not? title. if the answer is interview, then that makes sense, but what about schools like upenn that are stopping interviews for the college admissions. [from former AO]: This is not exactly that common. More common at private schools that have relationships and pipelines built with schools: a call from the counselor really advocating for the student. I suppose a common thing that is a bit more likely than the above is when students give us new updated information. Like winning a huge award or something. And here's that same guys answer to another question: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/1df2ine/comment/n8nridd/?context=3 I was answering this relative to your average public school that sends no one anywhere. Here's the thing: when people say T10, they, for whatever reason, even at these private schools, think only of HYPS. Everyone wants HYPS. Take out MIT and Caltech from this list because we all know that these schools aren't sending people to those schools at higher rates. Northwestern, UChicago, Cornell, Johns Hopkins -- places like these actually do take a decent chunk of applicants from feeders, even if you're not at the highest ranking. People often forget them because HYPS is so blinding. If you want the nitty-gritty, going to these feeders is more helpful simply because faculty and staff know the game. For example, if you get your hands on their teacher brag sheets they make you fill out, they'll likely preface it with a blurb about what schools are looking for (usually something about intellectual vitality). Counselors will have data to help you calibrate on what to apply to. They offer accepted essays every year, with workshops for their students on do's and do-not's. So if you want me to be specific, if you're performing well at a feeder, getting into a T10 like the ones I listed really does help RELATIVE to your normal public school because of this extra resourcing and support, which is practically non-existent at a good chunk of high schools across America. Even if you're performing not as high, so bottom of the barrel of the top 10%, then I would say, relative to a normal public school, which most of this sub is at, you would still do better getting into the other T10s (and frankly, let's just extend it to T20 because these rankings are arbitrary anyway). None of this to say that you're going to get in, but in relative terms, yeah, these schools have a major effect because of what I've said above. Now, if you're gunning for ONLY HYPS, especially as someone on the lower end of the GPA/class rank, I'd say that you're in tough competition because of the internal politics and the sticky legacy, very rich connected students will have the leg up here. We can talk about that if you want, but my answer, making clear once more, really isn't focused on these schools. Re: USAMO quals. You mentioned more than 15. I'm assuming not much more, otherwise you would have used a different number. 10 of them getting is still really great. People take my meaning of "your chances go up significantly" to mean that you're going to get in. I've never said that. Relative to others at other normal high schools, your chances do go up, but that was never to mean they were ever THAT high in the first place. Also does public feeder school(thomas Jefferson) vs any private feeder school(exeter) make some difference in your chances? I mean both the schools have really lots of high performing candidates. The biggest difference between a private feeder and public feeder are the students who go there and their families. At Exeter, you're going to find sons and daughters of really rich, well-connected families that likely have generations of legacy. You might find the children of certain celebrities. At TJ, it's less likely. So really, it's a matter of the schools you're applying to and how strong the pool is. Applying to HYP out of Deerfield or any other private school as a non-legacy student? Your college counselor is likely to push back on that, encourage more targets and safeties, and never tell you that in the pool are a couple of 3x legacy students with a 3.7 GPA, very wealthy. You, the student, will likely know who this is, but your college counselor will probably never tell you. That changes the trajectory pretty significantly here. Now, you, the student -- do you have a story to tell that's DIFFERENT than everyone else's at this private school? Do you have some major distinctions as well? Are you a strong student? If all of those align for you, then, sure, take your shot. Given all the resources you have at the private feeder, you're set up for success. The likelihood of you having a strong application cover to cover will help, and by virtue of that, your chances go up because everything is in order. Except that doesn't mean you'll for sure get in. Now at TJ, it's different. Students at TJ are strong, no doubt. There's likely not going to be any super crazy legacy kid that's uber rich in the pool there. But because of that absence, it just becomes a pretty standard, highly competitive pool to select from. You will have to stand out in some capacity. To answer your question: there are differences, but it greatly depends on a lot of factors here. Are you aiming for HYP? It'll be hard at any school, but the fact that you're gunning for it out of Exeter or any other place makes it really sticky because there are families, with legacy, there that do expect their kids to get in, and NOT getting in will cause some pretty significant strain on the college counseling office. It's not any easier at TJ, necessarily, because the competition is so fierce there. If I'm not mistaken, kids at TJ aren't getting into HYP at ridiculous rates. Lots of TJ kids at CMU and Cornell, though. |
Anonymous
| I'm a big believer in standardized tests, but people way overstate their predictive power, especially for any given individual. They're better than any other single measure (particularly given grade inflation and inconsistency), but they're not that great on their own. |
Anonymous
I think it depends on major and classes… o-chem (lots of intense pre-meds) will always be intense because of the peer group/students. That’s always been true. But other courses will be more laid back. |