MCSL rule changes for summer 2026

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Except for the fact that you’d have actual 8 year olds being forced to compete their entire seasons as 9 year olds. They swim different events. It matters.

Come on, they are 8 years and 11 months old, not that much different than a 9 year old 1 month kid. The flip side is you have actual 9 year olds winning events that are 8 and under. That result is also not great. Again 2 sides, same coin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Except for the fact that you’d have actual 8 year olds being forced to compete their entire seasons as 9 year olds. They swim different events. It matters.

Come on, they are 8 years and 11 months old, not that much different than a 9 year old 1 month kid. The flip side is you have actual 9 year olds winning events that are 8 and under. That result is also not great. Again 2 sides, same coin.

Except in your example, 8 year olds have to compete with 9 year olds in 9-10 competition despite not actually being 9. The current kids get two down years in a row. What problem are you trying to solve? As you say, 9 years and 1 month isn’t much different than 8 years and 11 months. But it is a hell of a lot different than 10 years and 11 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Except for the fact that you’d have actual 8 year olds being forced to compete their entire seasons as 9 year olds. They swim different events. It matters.

Come on, they are 8 years and 11 months old, not that much different than a 9 year old 1 month kid. The flip side is you have actual 9 year olds winning events that are 8 and under. That result is also not great. Again 2 sides, same coin.

Except in your example, 8 year olds have to compete with 9 year olds in 9-10 competition despite not actually being 9. The current kids get two down years in a row. What problem are you trying to solve? As you say, 9 years and 1 month isn’t much different than 8 years and 11 months. But it is a hell of a lot different than 10 years and 11 months.

I’m not trying to solve any problem, I’m merely pointing out that June 1st or August 1st will disadvantage someone, it just depends on your perspective. You’re kind of proving the point by insisting June 1st is much fairer when it really isn’t. Using your own logic, a 9 year 1 month old is a hell of a lot different than a 7 year old in an 8 and under event, but you can’t even acknowledge that because you’re so convinced that June 1st is somehow more fair than August 1st 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Well yes and no. Accepting something the way it is, even if it advantages your child is different than accepting when your child is advantaged and throwing a tantrum when someone else's child is advantaged. The latter is what the people trying to change a date that's been used for 25 years are doing, and rewarding their poor sportsmanship would be horrible. It's no difference than buying your kid candy because they throw a fit in the checkout line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Well yes and no. Accepting something the way it is, even if it advantages your child is different than accepting when your child is advantaged and throwing a tantrum when someone else's child is advantaged. The latter is what the people trying to change a date that's been used for 25 years are doing, and rewarding their poor sportsmanship would be horrible. It's no difference than buying your kid candy because they throw a fit in the checkout line.

😂 and how do you think the date ended up being changed 25 years ago? Come off your high horse July birthday mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Well yes and no. Accepting something the way it is, even if it advantages your child is different than accepting when your child is advantaged and throwing a tantrum when someone else's child is advantaged. The latter is what the people trying to change a date that's been used for 25 years are doing, and rewarding their poor sportsmanship would be horrible. It's no difference than buying your kid candy because they throw a fit in the checkout line.

😂 and how do you think the date ended up being changed 25 years ago? Come off your high horse July birthday mom.

Sure. Will you help me down, October mom?

And changing it to August 1 could conceivably lock a number of swimmers out of swimming their senior year. It’s pretty common for people to hold back their summer birthday boys around here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Well yes and no. Accepting something the way it is, even if it advantages your child is different than accepting when your child is advantaged and throwing a tantrum when someone else's child is advantaged. The latter is what the people trying to change a date that's been used for 25 years are doing, and rewarding their poor sportsmanship would be horrible. It's no difference than buying your kid candy because they throw a fit in the checkout line.

😂 and how do you think the date ended up being changed 25 years ago? Come off your high horse July birthday mom.

Sure. Will you help me down, October mom?

And changing it to August 1 could conceivably lock a number of swimmers out of swimming their senior year. It’s pretty common for people to hold back their summer birthday boys around here.

I have no dog in this fight. My kid has a spring birthday and doesn’t care that much about summer swim. I just can’t comprehend that people on both sides of this debate cannot see that they arguing the same thing, just for a different result. You’re also really reaching with the redshirted summer birthday boy argument, that does not tip the scales to June 1 being more fair. Do we really need 19 year olds being able to swim as 18 year olds in summer rec league swim?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Well yes and no. Accepting something the way it is, even if it advantages your child is different than accepting when your child is advantaged and throwing a tantrum when someone else's child is advantaged. The latter is what the people trying to change a date that's been used for 25 years are doing, and rewarding their poor sportsmanship would be horrible. It's no difference than buying your kid candy because they throw a fit in the checkout line.

😂 and how do you think the date ended up being changed 25 years ago? Come off your high horse July birthday mom.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Well yes and no. Accepting something the way it is, even if it advantages your child is different than accepting when your child is advantaged and throwing a tantrum when someone else's child is advantaged. The latter is what the people trying to change a date that's been used for 25 years are doing, and rewarding their poor sportsmanship would be horrible. It's no difference than buying your kid candy because they throw a fit in the checkout line.

😂 and how do you think the date ended up being changed 25 years ago? Come off your high horse July birthday mom.

Sure. Will you help me down, October mom?

And changing it to August 1 could conceivably lock a number of swimmers out of swimming their senior year. It’s pretty common for people to hold back their summer birthday boys around here.

I have no dog in this fight. My kid has a spring birthday and doesn’t care that much about summer swim. I just can’t comprehend that people on both sides of this debate cannot see that they arguing the same thing, just for a different result. You’re also really reaching with the redshirted summer birthday boy argument, that does not tip the scales to June 1 being more fair. Do we really need 19 year olds being able to swim as 18 year olds in summer rec league swim?

At that age, it doesn’t really matter. Puberty hits when it hits and the age group distinctions don’t matter as much. But the seniors I’ve met really do seem to like swimming that last season. No senior send off would be sad. Doubly so if the kid is still actually 18.

At the younger ages, yes it does matter. Summer swim is long over for most kids by August 1. The late July birthdays might not ever swim a single meet at the actual age they were forced to compete in. It’s not a lack of advantage, it’s an actual disadvantage. Might as well set the date at December 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Well yes and no. Accepting something the way it is, even if it advantages your child is different than accepting when your child is advantaged and throwing a tantrum when someone else's child is advantaged. The latter is what the people trying to change a date that's been used for 25 years are doing, and rewarding their poor sportsmanship would be horrible. It's no difference than buying your kid candy because they throw a fit in the checkout line.

😂 and how do you think the date ended up being changed 25 years ago? Come off your high horse July birthday mom.

Sure. Will you help me down, October mom?

And changing it to August 1 could conceivably lock a number of swimmers out of swimming their senior year. It’s pretty common for people to hold back their summer birthday boys around here.

I have no dog in this fight. My kid has a spring birthday and doesn’t care that much about summer swim. I just can’t comprehend that people on both sides of this debate cannot see that they arguing the same thing, just for a different result. You’re also really reaching with the redshirted summer birthday boy argument, that does not tip the scales to June 1 being more fair. Do we really need 19 year olds being able to swim as 18 year olds in summer rec league swim?

Totally agree. It is absolutely bonkers that KIDS WHO ARE IN COLLEGE can swim in summer swim as 18 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You want 10% of the kids to have to swim completely different lengths of races over the course of a recreational 6-week season? What an idea. Astonish us with more of your brilliance.

Np here. What if they swim the age that they are by divisionals of that season. For example, if they turn 9 on july 15th, they swim as a 9 year old the whole season, 50 free from time trials on.

Once you are 9 it’s because you have completed 9 years of life ( in Spanish your birthday is your cumpleaños—complete year) so you’re more 9 than 8.

Prior to the turn of the century the date was in July (don't remember if it was the first or a date that followed the completion of the season). Not sure why they changed it.

They changed it bc a big group of parents who had kids with June birthdays lobbied for it to be changed to give their kids an advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this thread just about age up dates?

I'd like to see MCSL adopt NVSL rules on maximum number of events to be more inclusive in A meets. A 2 event max seems preferable to the MCSL rule which allows 3 individual events, plus IM plus a relay - so a swimmer can swim in 5 events each A meet.

No, it's about a crazy summer swim parent who has a kid who got beat by a kid who is playing by the same rules as everyone else and they are upset because they want their kid to win a race.

Np. Maybe. But there is a very valid point that you have say, an actual 9 year olds swimming as an "8 and under".

This would be fixed by moving the cut off date to August 1. That way everyone swims their actual age. Someone just screwed up years ago when the current cut off date was selected.

Exactly. Actual 9 year olds swimming as "8 year olds" for the entire summer swim season is so unfair to true 8 and unders.

I agree with the OP. Kids should age up on their actual birthday. They make it work in club swim. Summer swim coaches can make it work too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

"The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others."

Except....in club swim. There is no cut off date. You swim as the age you are. You age up on your birthday. That doesn't advantage or disadvantage any kids. It just is what it is. Everyone knows it and accepts it.

I fully support summer swim kids aging up on their birthdays. Someone picking a random arbitrary date and everyone sticking by it for years and years is ludicrous to me. It's like the people that say, "Oh this is how we've always done it! It's tradition!"
A tradition that makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

+1. Summer swim is what? Six weeks? Are we really going to kick freshly minted 9-year olds out of their age groups and relays in mid July and make them start swimming 50s with kids who are nearly two full years older? How is that fair?

I have no problem with the age up rule in club swim. Everyone is going to have a down period as they have birthdays, no one gets singled out. But for summer swim you are really penalizing the summer birthday kids. These kids get penalized enough. June 1 is fine.

I really don’t care about the age up issue, but the people that insist the rule remain age on June 1st are no different than the people arguing it should be age on August 1st. The only difference is which group of kids is being disadvantaged. It’s 2 sides of the same coin.

Well yes and no. Accepting something the way it is, even if it advantages your child is different than accepting when your child is advantaged and throwing a tantrum when someone else's child is advantaged. The latter is what the people trying to change a date that's been used for 25 years are doing, and rewarding their poor sportsmanship would be horrible. It's no difference than buying your kid candy because they throw a fit in the checkout line.

😂 and how do you think the date ended up being changed 25 years ago? Come off your high horse July birthday mom.

Sure. Will you help me down, October mom?

And changing it to August 1 could conceivably lock a number of swimmers out of swimming their senior year. It’s pretty common for people to hold back their summer birthday boys around here.

I have no dog in this fight. My kid has a spring birthday and doesn’t care that much about summer swim. I just can’t comprehend that people on both sides of this debate cannot see that they arguing the same thing, just for a different result. You’re also really reaching with the redshirted summer birthday boy argument, that does not tip the scales to June 1 being more fair. Do we really need 19 year olds being able to swim as 18 year olds in summer rec league swim?

It’s true that a change would advantage or disadvantage a different group of kids. But June 1 is still a very odd date to pick. It’s two weeks before the first meet of the season. Using that date means there are kids who don’t swim their actual age at any meet the entire season. If you are going to pick a date before the season even starts, then why not January 1?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the idea of the age group determination date being August 1st. Whatever age you are by August 1st is the age group you swim in for that summer season.
So if you turn 9 on August 1st or anytime before that, you swim in 9-10s that whole summer. It makes sense.

Most of the girls in the "8&U" age group who made coach's long course and individual all stars this year were already 9 years old or days/weeks away. The fastest "8&U" girl who is breaking a bunch of MCSL records literally had her birthday announced on the individual all star meet day. Before all you keyboard warriors come at me like OMG ARE YOU A STALKER?! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THEIR AGES?!...this is publicly available information online. If you don't like this, write to you're representative to get legislation in place. It's utterly creepy how publicly available all of our swimmers' info is on MeetMobile etc etc.

Let's not kid ourselves either about "oh this is just for fun!!! It's summer swim you troll!!!! How dare you take this from the children?!?!". I'd say 99% of the 8&U girls who made coach's long course or individual all stars are year-round club swimmers. So they're used to the year-round rule which is....you age up on your birthday. Changing it to August 1st would give ACTUAL 8&Us that aren't club swimmers a chance to make those events.

Changing the date would advantage different kids, but it wouldn’t change the huge advantage that club swimmers have. Why are you confusing those things?

Why even let club swimmers do summer swim at all then?!

I am the PP you quoted. I don’t object to club swimmers swimming, as long as they get that it’s a team rec sport and entirely different from club swimming.

But the PP I quoted seemed to be saying that the advantage that club swimmers have somehow justifies changing the age when the two things are completely separate.

The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others. I have a kid with a late July birthday, he has an advantage in Summer Swim, a disadvantage in his favorite sport which has a August 1 cut off, a bigger disadvantage in lacrosse where they play by age and lots of kids are redshirted, and unclear status in soccer right now because the ages seem to be changing. It just is what it is. But I don’t go demanding that the rules change in any of those sports. Because I am not a poor sport.

"The reality is that every team sport has a cut off date that advantages some kids and disadvantages others."

Except....in club swim. There is no cut off date. You swim as the age you are. You age up on your birthday. That doesn't advantage or disadvantage any kids. It just is what it is. Everyone knows it and accepts it.

I fully support summer swim kids aging up on their birthdays. Someone picking a random arbitrary date and everyone sticking by it for years and years is ludicrous to me. It's like the people that say, "Oh this is how we've always done it! It's tradition!"
A tradition that makes no sense.

The birthday rule does disadvantage certain kids in club swim because the big championship meets are in March every year. So kids who age up right before that have to swim against kids in the championship meets almost two years older (or almost a year older in their interim year).