I am Luis Fernandez - of Woodley suspension (in)famy

[Anonymous]

Not talking about what OP did here, but in general, how does it help to pretend that physiological differences don’t exist between those who are born male and born female, in a test of that physiology, within which males have a clear advantage?

I do feel that what OP did was honestly kind of reactive and immature, and doesn’t really do anything to enact change, and isn’t an example of “standing up for a cause” like he thinks it is. OP just took out his general political anger/discontentq on a visible example that appeared in front of him, and the force of that was disproportionate to the recipient and event, and that’s what makes it inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not talking about what OP did here, but in general, how does it help to pretend that physiological differences don’t exist between those who are born male and born female, in a test of that physiology, within which males have a clear advantage?

I do feel that what OP did was honestly kind of reactive and immature, and doesn’t really do anything to enact change, and isn’t an example of “standing up for a cause” like he thinks it is. OP just took out his general political anger/discontentq on a visible example that appeared in front of him, and the force of that was disproportionate to the recipient and event, and that’s what makes it inappropriate.

But the point is we are talking about what OP did. I think a large majority of people think how we approach these issues should depend on context, and what is appropriate for an adult Olympic race isn’t the same as what is appropriate for a neighborhood race of 8 yos.

[Anonymous]

Taking every single fact and claim in the light most favorable to you, and further assuming that you are completely correct about the underlying merits of the transgendered athlete issue, you were completely out of line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not talking about what OP did here, but in general, how does it help to pretend that physiological differences don’t exist between those who are born male and born female, in a test of that physiology, within which males have a clear advantage?

I do feel that what OP did was honestly kind of reactive and immature, and doesn’t really do anything to enact change, and isn’t an example of “standing up for a cause” like he thinks it is. OP just took out his general political anger/discontentq on a visible example that appeared in front of him, and the force of that was disproportionate to the recipient and event, and that’s what makes it inappropriate.

This is where I land. I disagree with OP's actions and am bothered by the impact they could have on a kid who was just trying to enjoy a fun recreational swimming experience. It's frustrating in this thread to see OP asserting over and over that his actions were justified instead of trying to at least understand that even those of us who understand where he's coming from on this issue can't endorse his behavior.

But I also think these conversations would be much more productive if we could acknowledge obvious truths like: yes, there are physiological differences between girls/women and trans girls/women. And while these physiological differences don't matter in the vast majority of situations, they do matter in athletics, especially given the history of women's sports and the efforts we've had to go to as a society to ensure women have access to athletic opportunities.

I can condemn OP's behavior in this situation (it was a casual rec, non-league, meet and there were lots of other ways for him to register his concerns without getting aggressive with other parents or potentially humiliating a child in a public place) while also acknowledging that I share his frustration with how crazy-making the conversation around trans girls/women in sports can be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Woodley Suspension

I am Luis Fernandez - currently suspended member of Woodley pool and subject of Virginia Dad Suspended From Pool After Calling Out Boy In Girls’ Races

I am posting these pages to try to encourage more of you to write to your pools and the NVSL board asking both to clarify the rules such that future NVSL events only include boys (males) swimming against boys in boys' events and girls (females) swimming against girls in girls' events.

The NVSL Board of Directors emails can be found here: https://www.mynvsl.com/contacts

I noticed that many of the posts in this DCUrbanMom.com forum thread were well considered, and for that reason I hope to engage with you all to push for fair competition in NVSL. I hope that many of you will write letters to your Community Pool Boards and NVSL to advocate for the clarification and enforcement of the rules concerning sex differentiated swim events.

I have nothing to hide about the whole affair and am willing to share basically everything. So if I get some good questions, I will try to engage. If the conversation degenerates, then I guess I'll ignore the thread.

FAQ

Luis’ Account

Exchange with the Board

Woodley Suspension

Nothing to hide? Dude you are delusional. You openly admit to staring at a child’s genital area at a swim meet to determine their sex. Didn’t realize that was in the marshal job description. You admit to harassing a child by writing”boy” on the meet results and throwing a tantrum at a mini meet. You and your family should be embarrassed by your actions. The Woodley board acted appropriately in banning you from the pool.

I will contact the NVSL board to let them know they need to openly state/make it clear that they follow USA swimming in allowing trans athletes to participate. They have stated this before but never made it explicit in their rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You were wrong about everything. You had zero authority to do what you did.

- long time swim mom who is against trans girls competing with cis gender girls.

You seem to agree with me on the underlying issue; if so, how can I be wrong about everything?

I address my authority (or lack thereof) to act here: Woodley Suspension>Luis'Account>Speaking to the Offending Team>My Thoughts.

I'd be interested to hear how you've handled similar situations or if you haven't encountered similar situations, how you expect to change the current landscape vis a vis "trans girls competing with cis gender girls". For other readers, I suggest that you can avoid situations like mine by acting now and writing to your pool and league governing boards.

Jeez, you seriously need help.

1. You cursed. You claim it could have happened but don’t think so…and someone else says it did. Their memory stands uncontroverted.

2. You wrote “boy” on the results on the sheet for all to see.

3. You criticized mom and grandma publicly.

4. You took matters into your own hands when you did not like the result of your reporting.

5. There is not even independent confirmation (not from you) as to this kid’s gender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not talking about what OP did here, but in general, how does it help to pretend that physiological differences don’t exist between those who are born male and born female, in a test of that physiology, within which males have a clear advantage?

I do feel that what OP did was honestly kind of reactive and immature, and doesn’t really do anything to enact change, and isn’t an example of “standing up for a cause” like he thinks it is. OP just took out his general political anger/discontentq on a visible example that appeared in front of him, and the force of that was disproportionate to the recipient and event, and that’s what makes it inappropriate.

This is where I land. I disagree with OP's actions and am bothered by the impact they could have on a kid who was just trying to enjoy a fun recreational swimming experience. It's frustrating in this thread to see OP asserting over and over that his actions were justified instead of trying to at least understand that even those of us who understand where he's coming from on this issue can't endorse his behavior.

But I also think these conversations would be much more productive if we could acknowledge obvious truths like: yes, there are physiological differences between girls/women and trans girls/women. And while these physiological differences don't matter in the vast majority of situations, they do matter in athletics, especially given the history of women's sports and the efforts we've had to go to as a society to ensure women have access to athletic opportunities.

I can condemn OP's behavior in this situation (it was a casual rec, non-league, meet and there were lots of other ways for him to register his concerns without getting aggressive with other parents or potentially humiliating a child in a public place) while also acknowledging that I share his frustration with how crazy-making the conversation around trans girls/women in sports can be.

+1

The OP was wrong to act as he did. Also, the physiologic differences that exist between women and trans women have implications for sports. Both things are true. Acknowledging the latter doesn’t make me or anyone else an anti-trans bigot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not talking about what OP did here, but in general, how does it help to pretend that physiological differences don’t exist between those who are born male and born female, in a test of that physiology, within which males have a clear advantage?

I do feel that what OP did was honestly kind of reactive and immature, and doesn’t really do anything to enact change, and isn’t an example of “standing up for a cause” like he thinks it is. OP just took out his general political anger/discontentq on a visible example that appeared in front of him, and the force of that was disproportionate to the recipient and event, and that’s what makes it inappropriate.

This is where I land. I disagree with OP's actions and am bothered by the impact they could have on a kid who was just trying to enjoy a fun recreational swimming experience. It's frustrating in this thread to see OP asserting over and over that his actions were justified instead of trying to at least understand that even those of us who understand where he's coming from on this issue can't endorse his behavior.

But I also think these conversations would be much more productive if we could acknowledge obvious truths like: yes, there are physiological differences between girls/women and trans girls/women. And while these physiological differences don't matter in the vast majority of situations, they do matter in athletics, especially given the history of women's sports and the efforts we've had to go to as a society to ensure women have access to athletic opportunities.

I can condemn OP's behavior in this situation (it was a casual rec, non-league, meet and there were lots of other ways for him to register his concerns without getting aggressive with other parents or potentially humiliating a child in a public place) while also acknowledging that I share his frustration with how crazy-making the conversation around trans girls/women in sports can be.

It shouldn't have been a conversation around trans girls/ women. OP decided to make it one.

What if some kids are registered under the wrong age? Should marshalls now start sizing up the kids to see who is really 10 year old based on physical characteristics?

As a marshall you do your job and guide your the kids. Then you shut up. If you want to be part of the board and suggest enforcement strategies for age and gender categories along with how the pool will find resources to cover these and potential lawsuits, keep queit and do your job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You were wrong about everything. You had zero authority to do what you did.

- long time swim mom who is against trans girls competing with cis gender girls.

You seem to agree with me on the underlying issue; if so, how can I be wrong about everything?

I address my authority (or lack thereof) to act here: Woodley Suspension>Luis'Account>Speaking to the Offending Team>My Thoughts.

I'd be interested to hear how you've handled similar situations or if you haven't encountered similar situations, how you expect to change the current landscape vis a vis "trans girls competing with cis gender girls". For other readers, I suggest that you can avoid situations like mine by acting now and writing to your pool and league governing boards.

Jeez, you seriously need help.

1. You cursed. You claim it could have happened but don’t think so…and someone else says it did. Their memory stands uncontroverted.

2. You wrote “boy” on the results on the sheet for all to see.

3. You criticized mom and grandma publicly.

4. You took matters into your own hands when you did not like the result of your reporting.

5. There is not even independent confirmation (not from you) as to this kid’s gender.

6. Gave an interview to a right wing website, risking harassment to the staff of the pool.

[Anonymous]

And while these physiological differences don't matter in the vast majority of situations, they do matter in athletics, especially given the history of women's sports and the efforts we've had to go to as a society to ensure women have access to athletic opportunities.

I only somewhat agree. They matter in athletics in some contexts. I don't think it generally makes sense to have people born male competing with people born female after the individuals have gone through puberty when the level of competition is serious. I think it is fine at younger ages at the rec/just for fun level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You were wrong about everything. You had zero authority to do what you did.

- long time swim mom who is against trans girls competing with cis gender girls.

You seem to agree with me on the underlying issue; if so, how can I be wrong about everything?

I address my authority (or lack thereof) to act here: Woodley Suspension>Luis'Account>Speaking to the Offending Team>My Thoughts.

I'd be interested to hear how you've handled similar situations or if you haven't encountered similar situations, how you expect to change the current landscape vis a vis "trans girls competing with cis gender girls". For other readers, I suggest that you can avoid situations like mine by acting now and writing to your pool and league governing boards.

Jeez, you seriously need help.

1. You cursed. You claim it could have happened but don’t think so…and someone else says it did. Their memory stands uncontroverted.

2. You wrote “boy” on the results on the sheet for all to see.

3. You criticized mom and grandma publicly.

4. You took matters into your own hands when you did not like the result of your reporting.

5. There is not even independent confirmation (not from you) as to this kid’s gender.

The bolded is wild. I have no idea how OP could do what he did knowing there was a possibility, however small, that he was wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your own statements indicate you were scanning kids' private regions...Does that sound reasonable to you? What if the bulge you noticed ended up being something other than a male body part? What if the child had a growth in that region? Is the humiliation of the child worth it?

While I am against male in female sports even at the Woodley B team level, there is no way you can police this without causing more harm than good. You have caused more harm than good here.

This…plus what if the child is intersex? Intersex children can be born with external male genitalia with internal female sex organs (and vice versa). Intersex kids can also have ambiguous genitalia where it is impossible to tell if the child is male or female. No one should be “scanning” children’s genital area unless they are a doctor doing a medical exam.

[Anonymous]

I cannot imagine acting this way. For what it is worth, I was really angry when my son's soccer team allowed a girl to practice with his MLS Next team. The reason is that it is a team for boys, and the team was already oversubscribed such that some male players could not be rostered for each game. It seemed very unfair. However, I cannot imagine harassing the young lady or embarrassing her in the way you did this swimmer. Your behavior was inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Luis,

You aren’t wrong in principle but it was inappropriate of you to bring it up during a meet. Just as when I am a timer it is not my job to judge stroke and turns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op - the underlying issue is the way you reacted to the situation. Others in this thread have mentioned it: you talked to the ref and that should've been enough. If you have a problem with the way these types of situations are handled in NVSL, be an adult and have a conversation with the league about it. You could have also mentioned it to the child's team after the meet. Don't go after the kid, his team, the results sheet (which I think is such a horrible action, it's laughable). I'm applaud Woodley's board for holding you accountable.

Hopefully they hold him accountable for continuing his public hysterics even now.

Kick him out.