Will RTO be relaxed ever?

[Anonymous]

It sounds like your only option is to move closer to work or at least get a rental room for the week. And file for medical accommodation so you can shorten the time you need to be at the rental.

[Anonymous]

RTO is relaxed if you need to telework in order to do your prayers 5x a day. Not so much if you have medical disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a long term Fed and likely to be RIFd very soon. I have a few job options in the wings including one at a tiny little federal agency that’s really out of the crosshairs doing a job I’d really like. The problem is it would be 5 days a week in office and at least an hour and 15 minute commute. I’d like to stay a Fed through this (I’m about 10 years from retirement and want to keep my medical benefits), but that commute would be horrible. I’ve worked from home at least 2 days per week for the last 20 years, and 100% for 5 years.

Does anyone think agencies will get more flexibility any time soon?

My agency (USPTO) has allowed WFH as a reasonable accommodation to a decent number of employees. I think it mostly has to do with medical issues, rather than logistical ones, though. I am in the office 5 days a week, and most of my colleagues are as well. But there are a few who have gotten telework permission. It makes me happy that they do, because I hope in the long run this will facilitate the rest of us getting more TW privileges in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard OP. RTO for me meant a 90 minutes each way commute to a place I’d never worked before and turned my family’s life upside down.

It is very, very tough. While on one hand, yes I am physically able to get to the office and “work” each day, it is destroying my productivity and physical and mental health, affecting my relationships with my kids and family, and just making life absolutely miserable. But the people in charge now do not care about those things. They want us to be miserable and quit. Many of us are stuck between a rock and a hard place. My kids are teens; it would be devastating for them to have to pick up and move to a new area, and near impossible to find a good enough paying other job in this market.

So I do like many women have for thousands of years: put up with it, put my own physical and mental needs behind those of others, and just hope it will get better before I drop dead.

I’m also not sure it is worth it to stay in the fed workforce just because of the pension.
If I could, I would quit, move far away to lower COL area, and just start over in a new job, but that would really hurt my kids.

You think it doesn't impact men too? I don't get why women make it just about women.

Ok, so this is a parenting forum, and I am a mother. RTO impacts mothers especially. Remote work (zero commute) was the first time I ever had enough time and energy to give 100% at work and also be 100% of the mother I wanted to be and also had time to take care of myself. And I experienced much less anxiety while WFH and was able to really advance in my career, for the first time in my life.

I know there are exceptions but I am not seeing a lot of fathers who are as emotionally as devastated as mothers who had to RTO. I don’t even have little kids. I can’t imagine what it’s like being a parent of an infant with a 3 hour commute.

Remember this is not simply a return to the way things were before.

Men don’t complain to coworkers and friends they just do what they need to do. My spouse is pissed but there is nothing he can do about it. It’s costing us a fortune in gas and tolls and we’ll need a new car soon. It impacts men, women, parents and those without kids.

Not true at my work. Biggest complainers here are the men. Single men— got knows why RTO is bad, and married fathers. Complain endlessly to the point a couple working moms including me looked at them and said if it is so bad go get another job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a long term Fed and likely to be RIFd very soon. I have a few job options in the wings including one at a tiny little federal agency that’s really out of the crosshairs doing a job I’d really like. The problem is it would be 5 days a week in office and at least an hour and 15 minute commute. I’d like to stay a Fed through this (I’m about 10 years from retirement and want to keep my medical benefits), but that commute would be horrible. I’ve worked from home at least 2 days per week for the last 20 years, and 100% for 5 years.

Does anyone think agencies will get more flexibility any time soon?

My agency (USPTO) has allowed WFH as a reasonable accommodation to a decent number of employees. I think it mostly has to do with medical issues, rather than logistical ones, though. I am in the office 5 days a week, and most of my colleagues are as well. But there are a few who have gotten telework permission. It makes me happy that they do, because I hope in the long run this will facilitate the rest of us getting more TW privileges in the future.

I suspect this is only because they are bleeding SPE’s and can’t afford to lose more. It’s pretty clear that they want things to go back to pre COVID: two years on campus for new examiners and no telework for managers. Which incidentally means we will always struggle to have enough SPE’s since no one wants to give up telework for not much of a pay bump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard OP. RTO for me meant a 90 minutes each way commute to a place I’d never worked before and turned my family’s life upside down.

It is very, very tough. While on one hand, yes I am physically able to get to the office and “work” each day, it is destroying my productivity and physical and mental health, affecting my relationships with my kids and family, and just making life absolutely miserable. But the people in charge now do not care about those things. They want us to be miserable and quit. Many of us are stuck between a rock and a hard place. My kids are teens; it would be devastating for them to have to pick up and move to a new area, and near impossible to find a good enough paying other job in this market.

So I do like many women have for thousands of years: put up with it, put my own physical and mental needs behind those of others, and just hope it will get better before I drop dead.

I’m also not sure it is worth it to stay in the fed workforce just because of the pension.
If I could, I would quit, move far away to lower COL area, and just start over in a new job, but that would really hurt my kids.

You think it doesn't impact men too? I don't get why women make it just about women.

Ok, so this is a parenting forum, and I am a mother. RTO impacts mothers especially. Remote work (zero commute) was the first time I ever had enough time and energy to give 100% at work and also be 100% of the mother I wanted to be and also had time to take care of myself. And I experienced much less anxiety while WFH and was able to really advance in my career, for the first time in my life.

I know there are exceptions but I am not seeing a lot of fathers who are as emotionally as devastated as mothers who had to RTO. I don’t even have little kids. I can’t imagine what it’s like being a parent of an infant with a 3 hour commute.

Remember this is not simply a return to the way things were before.

I had the opposite problem, my family expected me to make $$$ and take care of household chores while at work, and my boss assumes I was slacking off. I tried to prove it but burnt out instead, was packing bags to leave the husband at 3am in year 2021.

Pre-Covid I worked at a new flex company with WFH allowed on Fridays. We advertised as such. I immediately got four high qualified women in from age 35-45 and hired them. It was Give a Mouse a Cookie from day one. The Head of HR, CEO, all pushed it.

Well it went well at beginning. Then basically our Friday WFH day became a vacation day, zero work done. So now I only have 80 percent work. They I noticed since we could break up days, all four women never took a Friday off. They only take vacation or sick days on Monday through Thursday, Like I am taking vacation Monday to Thursday will be on line Friday. Then the Flex schedule which HR approved we could start as early as 7am started. One lady came in at 7 am, left at 330pm She was late a lot buy since no one there who knows. Moms would sneak otu midday and go back to school stuff, or go home and check on kids. I had two moms who lived within 2 miles of building. Then the coffee clocking Mom who swing by and disappear daily.

In the End I fired one women for abuse after three months, the second women then quit, third and four slightly go better, than our backers fired CEO, Head of HR, then me, then most of management team. It became a circus. and I waa working 50-55 hours a week five days in person to try to catch up. Once word got out it was a four day work week, take four weeks vacation and add in sick and personal time get six weeks off and flex time every candiate was a shit show.

It went downhill quick. When fired I was a kinds happy. Then went to fully remote company that was great, then an inperson company that was great. the hibrid flex hours was a shit show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard OP. RTO for me meant a 90 minutes each way commute to a place I’d never worked before and turned my family’s life upside down.

It is very, very tough. While on one hand, yes I am physically able to get to the office and “work” each day, it is destroying my productivity and physical and mental health, affecting my relationships with my kids and family, and just making life absolutely miserable. But the people in charge now do not care about those things. They want us to be miserable and quit. Many of us are stuck between a rock and a hard place. My kids are teens; it would be devastating for them to have to pick up and move to a new area, and near impossible to find a good enough paying other job in this market.

So I do like many women have for thousands of years: put up with it, put my own physical and mental needs behind those of others, and just hope it will get better before I drop dead.

I’m also not sure it is worth it to stay in the fed workforce just because of the pension.
If I could, I would quit, move far away to lower COL area, and just start over in a new job, but that would really hurt my kids.

You think it doesn't impact men too? I don't get why women make it just about women.

Ok, so this is a parenting forum, and I am a mother. RTO impacts mothers especially. Remote work (zero commute) was the first time I ever had enough time and energy to give 100% at work and also be 100% of the mother I wanted to be and also had time to take care of myself. And I experienced much less anxiety while WFH and was able to really advance in my career, for the first time in my life.

I know there are exceptions but I am not seeing a lot of fathers who are as emotionally as devastated as mothers who had to RTO. I don’t even have little kids. I can’t imagine what it’s like being a parent of an infant with a 3 hour commute.

Remember this is not simply a return to the way things were before.

Men don’t complain to coworkers and friends they just do what they need to do. My spouse is pissed but there is nothing he can do about it. It’s costing us a fortune in gas and tolls and we’ll need a new car soon. It impacts men, women, parents and those without kids.

Not true at my work. Biggest complainers here are the men. Single men— got knows why RTO is bad, and married fathers. Complain endlessly to the point a couple working moms including me looked at them and said if it is so bad go get another job.

Mine doesn’t like it as the commute is an issue and he worries because I have serious health issues and he doesn’t like me home alone. Sometimes it’s not what it seems. He doesn’t a lot of driving kids and other things since I struggle. People know but not to the real extent it’s as bad as it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a long term Fed and likely to be RIFd very soon. I have a few job options in the wings including one at a tiny little federal agency that’s really out of the crosshairs doing a job I’d really like. The problem is it would be 5 days a week in office and at least an hour and 15 minute commute. I’d like to stay a Fed through this (I’m about 10 years from retirement and want to keep my medical benefits), but that commute would be horrible. I’ve worked from home at least 2 days per week for the last 20 years, and 100% for 5 years.

Does anyone think agencies will get more flexibility any time soon?

My agency (USPTO) has allowed WFH as a reasonable accommodation to a decent number of employees. I think it mostly has to do with medical issues, rather than logistical ones, though. I am in the office 5 days a week, and most of my colleagues are as well. But there are a few who have gotten telework permission. It makes me happy that they do, because I hope in the long run this will facilitate the rest of us getting more TW privileges in the future.

I suspect this is only because they are bleeding SPE’s and can’t afford to lose more. It’s pretty clear that they want things to go back to pre COVID: two years on campus for new examiners and no telework for managers. Which incidentally means we will always struggle to have enough SPE’s since no one wants to give up telework for not much of a pay bump.

In my case, it was APJ's not SPE's, but your point is well taken on why - perhaps - they have allowed some WFH for some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard OP. RTO for me meant a 90 minutes each way commute to a place I’d never worked before and turned my family’s life upside down.

It is very, very tough. While on one hand, yes I am physically able to get to the office and “work” each day, it is destroying my productivity and physical and mental health, affecting my relationships with my kids and family, and just making life absolutely miserable. But the people in charge now do not care about those things. They want us to be miserable and quit. Many of us are stuck between a rock and a hard place. My kids are teens; it would be devastating for them to have to pick up and move to a new area, and near impossible to find a good enough paying other job in this market.

So I do like many women have for thousands of years: put up with it, put my own physical and mental needs behind those of others, and just hope it will get better before I drop dead.

I’m also not sure it is worth it to stay in the fed workforce just because of the pension.
If I could, I would quit, move far away to lower COL area, and just start over in a new job, but that would really hurt my kids.

You think it doesn't impact men too? I don't get why women make it just about women.

Ok, so this is a parenting forum, and I am a mother. RTO impacts mothers especially. Remote work (zero commute) was the first time I ever had enough time and energy to give 100% at work and also be 100% of the mother I wanted to be and also had time to take care of myself. And I experienced much less anxiety while WFH and was able to really advance in my career, for the first time in my life.

I know there are exceptions but I am not seeing a lot of fathers who are as emotionally as devastated as mothers who had to RTO. I don’t even have little kids. I can’t imagine what it’s like being a parent of an infant with a 3 hour commute.

Remember this is not simply a return to the way things were before.

I had the opposite problem, my family expected me to make $$$ and take care of household chores while at work, and my boss assumes I was slacking off. I tried to prove it but burnt out instead, was packing bags to leave the husband at 3am in year 2021.

Pre-Covid I worked at a new flex company with WFH allowed on Fridays. We advertised as such. I immediately got four high qualified women in from age 35-45 and hired them. It was Give a Mouse a Cookie from day one. The Head of HR, CEO, all pushed it.

Well it went well at beginning. Then basically our Friday WFH day became a vacation day, zero work done. So now I only have 80 percent work. They I noticed since we could break up days, all four women never took a Friday off. They only take vacation or sick days on Monday through Thursday, Like I am taking vacation Monday to Thursday will be on line Friday. Then the Flex schedule which HR approved we could start as early as 7am started. One lady came in at 7 am, left at 330pm She was late a lot buy since no one there who knows. Moms would sneak otu midday and go back to school stuff, or go home and check on kids. I had two moms who lived within 2 miles of building. Then the coffee clocking Mom who swing by and disappear daily.

In the End I fired one women for abuse after three months, the second women then quit, third and four slightly go better, than our backers fired CEO, Head of HR, then me, then most of management team. It became a circus. and I waa working 50-55 hours a week five days in person to try to catch up. Once word got out it was a four day work week, take four weeks vacation and add in sick and personal time get six weeks off and flex time every candiate was a shit show.

It went downhill quick. When fired I was a kinds happy. Then went to fully remote company that was great, then an inperson company that was great. the hibrid flex hours was a shit show.

You have no measureable outcomes. So this is on you as a bad manager who doesn't know how to track productivity.

[Anonymous]

I know of some offices within HHS that have are allowing telework 2 days a week, which is what they had before the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a long term Fed and likely to be RIFd very soon. I have a few job options in the wings including one at a tiny little federal agency that’s really out of the crosshairs doing a job I’d really like. The problem is it would be 5 days a week in office and at least an hour and 15 minute commute. I’d like to stay a Fed through this (I’m about 10 years from retirement and want to keep my medical benefits), but that commute would be horrible. I’ve worked from home at least 2 days per week for the last 20 years, and 100% for 5 years.

Does anyone think agencies will get more flexibility any time soon?

I sure hope not. I love having everyone back in the office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. Why do people on this board feel the need to opine on all kinds of other things other than what I asked? I have a few potential job options. This is one I’m considering but the commute would be horrible.

Also, why do people think it is somehow admirable to be stuck in traffic for 1.5 hours twice a day? I really don’t understand that. My job very literally has no benefit from my being in person. Ever. In fact it is 95% conducting hearings virtually and I have no colleagues who do the same job I do. You think I should “make the sacrifice” to say hello to people I don’t work with?

OP, how does anyone know if and when and how RTO will relax? That's your question right? You've already said you can't do the commute now if it comes down to it so not sure what you want. Also OP, you're going off topic yourself by chiming in with all the reasons you can't do the commute. Other posters are just giving arguments from the other side.

[Anonymous]

75 minutes each way isn't that bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In Manhattan NYC pretty much everyone commutes one hour 15 minute one way every day from suburbs and do it for 30-40 years. It is not a big deal.

Just because they do it doesn't mean it's healthy. It sucks taking the LIRR to Penn Station, then walking to Park Avenue and the 40s. Or Metro North from Stamford to Wall Street. Or driving in. It's like a second job.

[Anonymous]

I've had an hour or so commute every day for 25+ years. What's so bad about it? I think the work from home folks have had it so easy for so long that they don't recognize normal people commutes when they see them.