Bethesda Today: Behavioral issues, lack of support creating unsafe classrooms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big issue is that many parents no longer enforce any rules or accept that their child is out of control. The article describes one parent who is upset because her child had cause a big enough disturbance behavioral outburst that an entire kindergarten class had to be evacuated. Is she bothered that 20 other students couldn't learn and many were scared or that a teacher's classroom that they spent hours arranging with many items they personally purchased is in disarray? No, the parent is upset because they were initially told they couldn't leave until it was picked up. So obviously, the parent and child did not pick up the room. The teacher had to stay late to pick up everything that got thrown and overturned and trashed.

The article says the student had impulse control issues and trouble keeping his hands to himself. Then they seem surprised “We would go to pick him up at the end of the day and someone would walk him out holding him at arm’s length, like he was a wild animal,” one of the parents said. “I am shocked and appalled at how our son was treated by the system.” But the parent is NOT shocked or appalled at how their child's behavior is affecting the teacher and other students. What does the parent think the school can do? No one wants to be kicked or hit.

In past years kids that hit others, ran away from classrooms, and threw things like staplers, books, etc. were restrained. They were absolutely not allowed to run amok. Instead of an entire classroom having to evacuate a room, the student was removed by staff members and put in a place where there were no other children. This no longer happens.

In past years students with special needs who needed to be in a classroom of 8-12 children to progress academically or because they had language delays or sensory issues or ADHD, etc. were placed in a special education classroom the majority of the school day. They could tailor the classroom for students who needed extra movement, who needed more breaks, who needed more prizes because they have to work harder to learn to read, etc. Students got work on their level, they could work and get immediate feedback from the teacher and aide because the ratios were much lower. These students had mild to moderate needs that were effectively addressed so there were not as many behavior problems. Now the push for inclusion at all costs is making so many kids absolutely miserable. Districts have removed these types of classrooms. If they existed many students would not need a classroom for social emotional learning because they would not end up so angry because would be in an appropriate classroom.

Not all kids can learn with 20 to 25 or more students. Not every student is ready in K to learn to read. Too many students are expected even in K to sit too long, to focus too much on structured academics instead of having engaging in active play where they learn to get along with others, learn to listen, take turns, use their imagination, etc.

Not all kids with those concerns need special classrooms. Kids with adhd or speech issues were never put in their own classrooms nor should be depending on the severity. And, expectations or appropriate and if anything dumbed down as parents like you had a fit. You are an equal problem. This level of behavior problem is on a completely different level that you don’t get.

Obviously not all kids with those concerns need special classrooms. But a small percentage actually do. And yes they were sometimes put in a small special education classroom when I started working as a school psychologist in 1999. And so many of them were so much happier and made much more progress. The schools I have worked at that push the inclusion at all cost model have so many behavior problems and so many miserable students. The best model is that the students are not in a special education classroom all day but they start in their general education classrooms then after around 20 minutes they go to a special education classroom for reading for 90 minutes or for math and reading until lunch. Then they go back to the general education classroom. The students who just need 30 minutes a day or 2-3 times a week get pulled out in the afternoons.

So many special education students benefit from being pulled out to work in small groups of 3-6 with special education teacher and aids in small groups every day for 2-3 hours. They get personalized attention, the teachers can take the time to understand what the students who have difficulty expressing themselves are trying to say so those students finally participate and start talking. The teacher in a small group can immediately pull up a picture on the internet to show students if they don't know what a vocabulary word is, students get work at their level and get praised for finishing it, they see other students at their academic level so they feel encouraged they might be the best in the small group. They can get frequent opportunities to earn stickers/tokens to earn prizes because they are working hard. It is far easier for students who have trouble sitting still and concentrating when you are rotating for 20 minutes from a special education teacher to one aide then after 20 minutes to another. The teacher can see when a kid needs a break or is having a bad day. They can take a break and do a follow a step by step art lesson to feel successful. They can get homework on their level. One teacher even had the students learn a 4 minute play the talent show. There would be zero chance they would get staring roles in their general education classrooms. So for the students who really struggle in school being in a supportive environment they can go into a classroom where they feel valued and supported.

Now compare that to the inclusion model where these 12-16 students are all in different classrooms instead being grouped together and the special education teacher and two aids push into general education classrooms. The special ed teacher in the course of 3 hours might go for 30 minutes into 6 different classrooms. The students have to sit in classrooms where the work is way too hard for many of them and then are embarrassed that an adult is coming to sit next to them because they are so low, where kids snicker if they say something wrong so they do not say much of anything all day, etc. They don't want to go to a back table and have other students hear how they struggle to read. So it isn't all of those 12-16 students perhaps it is 4-6 students who are like "f this" I am going to cause a disruption since I can't do the work anyways or I am going to run out of the classroom or make noises or throw my crayon across the room. So then they get sent to the office or to the counseling office and they get some attention. They soon learn it is so much better to cause a disruption to get out of class. Now you have the special education teacher dealing with those 4-6 students while the other 8-12 students who should be pulled out for hours in the morning and the other 8-10 students who get pulled out in the afternoons get ignored.

What is happening now is ridiculous. Special education is supposed to be individualized. There needs to be a range of options available. It shouldn't be the only options are a special day special education class all day or 100% inclusion. However, so many advocates are pushing inclusion at all cost. There are huge initiatives that push all students need to be included at least 80% of the day and so many advocates who want to see 100% inclusion by all students 100% of the day.

Mcps took away an autism program, trade program and mva. No one cared. So, stop complaining. You all were ok with the autism program closing as no one made a stink. Mcps doesn’t care as there is no accountability.

💯. The only time these parents pretended to care was during Covid and they hijacked caring about special education kids simply because they no longer wanted their own kids in the house

Exactly. They use the kids with SN as talking points as well as low income.

Now that they can sip mimosas at brunch again, the gell with SN/low income families. Am I right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So now that the DOE is eliminated, can the violent kids be moved?

Rfk jr has joined the chat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A big issue is that many parents no longer enforce any rules or accept that their child is out of control. The article describes one parent who is upset because her child had cause a big enough disturbance behavioral outburst that an entire kindergarten class had to be evacuated. Is she bothered that 20 other students couldn't learn and many were scared or that a teacher's classroom that they spent hours arranging with many items they personally purchased is in disarray? No, the parent is upset because they were initially told they couldn't leave until it was picked up. So obviously, the parent and child did not pick up the room. The teacher had to stay late to pick up everything that got thrown and overturned and trashed.

The article says the student had impulse control issues and trouble keeping his hands to himself. Then they seem surprised “We would go to pick him up at the end of the day and someone would walk him out holding him at arm’s length, like he was a wild animal,” one of the parents said. “I am shocked and appalled at how our son was treated by the system.” But the parent is NOT shocked or appalled at how their child's behavior is affecting the teacher and other students. What does the parent think the school can do? No one wants to be kicked or hit.

In past years kids that hit others, ran away from classrooms, and threw things like staplers, books, etc. were restrained. They were absolutely not allowed to run amok. Instead of an entire classroom having to evacuate a room, the student was removed by staff members and put in a place where there were no other children. This no longer happens.

In past years students with special needs who needed to be in a classroom of 8-12 children to progress academically or because they had language delays or sensory issues or ADHD, etc. were placed in a special education classroom the majority of the school day. They could tailor the classroom for students who needed extra movement, who needed more breaks, who needed more prizes because they have to work harder to learn to read, etc. Students got work on their level, they could work and get immediate feedback from the teacher and aide because the ratios were much lower. These students had mild to moderate needs that were effectively addressed so there were not as many behavior problems. Now the push for inclusion at all costs is making so many kids absolutely miserable. Districts have removed these types of classrooms. If they existed many students would not need a classroom for social emotional learning because they would not end up so angry because would be in an appropriate classroom.

Not all kids can learn with 20 to 25 or more students. Not every student is ready in K to learn to read. Too many students are expected even in K to sit too long, to focus too much on structured academics instead of having engaging in active play where they learn to get along with others, learn to listen, take turns, use their imagination, etc.

Not all kids with those concerns need special classrooms. Kids with adhd or speech issues were never put in their own classrooms nor should be depending on the severity. And, expectations or appropriate and if anything dumbed down as parents like you had a fit. You are an equal problem. This level of behavior problem is on a completely different level that you don’t get.

Obviously not all kids with those concerns need special classrooms. But a small percentage actually do. And yes they were sometimes put in a small special education classroom when I started working as a school psychologist in 1999. And so many of them were so much happier and made much more progress. The schools I have worked at that push the inclusion at all cost model have so many behavior problems and so many miserable students. The best model is that the students are not in a special education classroom all day but they start in their general education classrooms then after around 20 minutes they go to a special education classroom for reading for 90 minutes or for math and reading until lunch. Then they go back to the general education classroom. The students who just need 30 minutes a day or 2-3 times a week get pulled out in the afternoons.

So many special education students benefit from being pulled out to work in small groups of 3-6 with special education teacher and aids in small groups every day for 2-3 hours. They get personalized attention, the teachers can take the time to understand what the students who have difficulty expressing themselves are trying to say so those students finally participate and start talking. The teacher in a small group can immediately pull up a picture on the internet to show students if they don't know what a vocabulary word is, students get work at their level and get praised for finishing it, they see other students at their academic level so they feel encouraged they might be the best in the small group. They can get frequent opportunities to earn stickers/tokens to earn prizes because they are working hard. It is far easier for students who have trouble sitting still and concentrating when you are rotating for 20 minutes from a special education teacher to one aide then after 20 minutes to another. The teacher can see when a kid needs a break or is having a bad day. They can take a break and do a follow a step by step art lesson to feel successful. They can get homework on their level. One teacher even had the students learn a 4 minute play the talent show. There would be zero chance they would get staring roles in their general education classrooms. So for the students who really struggle in school being in a supportive environment they can go into a classroom where they feel valued and supported.

Now compare that to the inclusion model where these 12-16 students are all in different classrooms instead being grouped together and the special education teacher and two aids push into general education classrooms. The special ed teacher in the course of 3 hours might go for 30 minutes into 6 different classrooms. The students have to sit in classrooms where the work is way too hard for many of them and then are embarrassed that an adult is coming to sit next to them because they are so low, where kids snicker if they say something wrong so they do not say much of anything all day, etc. They don't want to go to a back table and have other students hear how they struggle to read. So it isn't all of those 12-16 students perhaps it is 4-6 students who are like "f this" I am going to cause a disruption since I can't do the work anyways or I am going to run out of the classroom or make noises or throw my crayon across the room. So then they get sent to the office or to the counseling office and they get some attention. They soon learn it is so much better to cause a disruption to get out of class. Now you have the special education teacher dealing with those 4-6 students while the other 8-12 students who should be pulled out for hours in the morning and the other 8-10 students who get pulled out in the afternoons get ignored.

What is happening now is ridiculous. Special education is supposed to be individualized. There needs to be a range of options available. It shouldn't be the only options are a special day special education class all day or 100% inclusion. However, so many advocates are pushing inclusion at all cost. There are huge initiatives that push all students need to be included at least 80% of the day and so many advocates who want to see 100% inclusion by all students 100% of the day.

This. When will common sense be allowed in SpEd decision-making?

As an early elementary teacher for over 25 years, all of this! Our current system does not work. I hear and see kids in our building popping off all day long. Our current situation is untenable for everyone. I am incredibly grateful that my own kids are out of elementary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The SESES program is a discrete program for students with emotional disabilities. If this child is having as many problems even with the support of the program, it’s likely that the program staff are looking at moving the child to a more restrictive environment. If that’s taking a long time, it’s outside of the school staffs control. That’s federal law plus central office MCPS being difficult to work with and refusing to move students.

This.

TBH, those kids always have a well-trained para with them at my school and are less of a problem than some of the GenPop kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now that the DOE is eliminated, can the violent kids be moved?

To where? MCPS has very few SN or behavior programs/classrooms and they are all full. The private schools are easily $100K each which is why MCPS fights those placements and there are very few slots.

You begin with the end in mind:
Protect innocent students and staff from violent kids.

And who would staff those tents? Cops?

Put up outside tents if you have to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is going to change. It’s very depressing.

The Departament of Education started this nightmare. Enough is enough.

The Dept of Education sought changes to special education and so did advocates because often Special Ed kids and families civil rights were being violated. Not to mention they were being treated as second class citizens in school.

Advocates worked with Congress to create various legislation including I.D.E.A.

The problem is a) they’ve never fully funded the law, and b) the needs to be more unambiguous language around "free and appropriate education". As it stands the law basically requires school districts to pay for a variety of services, equipment, classes/programs and potentially private school in order to satisfy the law. All while not having full
funding and having to figure out what insurance will cover.

[Anonymous]

Is anyone sticking up for the teacher who gets fired because they get assaulted by the deli quent violent kids. Alot of times mcps retaliates if we teachers open our blabber mouths when the violence happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone sticking up for the teacher who gets fired because they get assaulted by the deli quent violent kids. Alot of times mcps retaliates if we teachers open our blabber mouths when the violence happens.

Go to therapy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone sticking up for the teacher who gets fired because they get assaulted by the deli quent violent kids. Alot of times mcps retaliates if we teachers open our blabber mouths when the violence happens.

This is really outragious. Teachers shouldn’t have to fear for their safety in the classroom. They didn’t sign-up to become the punching bag of raging kids.

Who was the teacher who got her ribs kicked in?

Who was the teacher who got shot at?

Who are the teachers who routinely get chairs and desks thrown at them?

This is what the Department of Education has allowed across America.

TAKE DOWN the DEPARTMENT of EDUCATION.

[Anonymous]

We pay so much money to our union and they don't care that we get "let go" after being violently assaulted. There needs to be some serious ramifications and legal support for teachers who are put in this position. Especially when they give the worst students to new teachers.

[Anonymous]

It is difficult for a teacher to be “let go” must be more to the story.

[Anonymous]

New teachers can be let go for any reason or no reason at all. It was a year with incredible day to day violence and chaos and when I used to call security they rarely showed up. Teachers would talk to the news media and would have their heads blocked out with fear of retaliation. Admin didnt know who to retaliate on so new teachers were easy to oust to send a message to the tenured ones.

[Anonymous]

When did this happen? I am having a hard time believing this unless this was a substitute teacher? Even non tenured teachers have the rights of the professional growth system and due process.

I do not remember any of this being on the news. This was in an MCPS school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When did this happen? I am having a hard time believing this unless this was a substitute teacher? Even non tenured teachers have the rights of the professional growth system and due process.

I do not remember any of this being on the news. This was in an MCPS school?

This poster comments the same thing on every thread, it is well known and documented that all teachers, especially new teachers who are automatically enrolled in the growth system, get a year minimum to improve before getting their contract non renewed. There has to be documentation of several parties and even a panel to make your case. I don't buy their story. Every school has a building rep for the union, I don't think they got "let go for protecting their students".

[Anonymous]

100% agree with PP. The “let go teacher” is not telling the truth and does not seem to be aware of systems for teachers in MCPS. This leads me to believe the poster is not a teacher.

Why make this up?