Bethesda Today: Behavioral issues, lack of support creating unsafe classrooms

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t teachers allowed to implement consequences to kids flinging chairs?

I keep seeing this mentioned, I've worked in schools for over 15 years, can only recall one incident a desk was knocked over, is this a situation being exaggerated?

When you’re in a class with a child that flips desks, it happens many times a year.

Okay, but how common is that.

My first grade daughter witnessed a classmate throw a chair several times this year. Today a boy in her class tackled the classroom teacher and started punching her.

Zero consequences I bet.

My understanding is the boy has special needs so can consequences be given? What consequence could be given to a six or seven year old?

Your understanding is wrong, as usual.

FACT. I am a teacher. We dealt with a serious physical alteration. Principal recommended suspension, central office said it was not permitted due to an IEP. The IEP was for speech... Elementary school principals have their hands tied.

What needs to happen at what level to get more support around this (separation/meaningful consequences for violent students). Federal law? State law? Dept of Ed? School Board? Central Office? I think many would advocate for more common sense around these issues but do not know what needs to happen for it to return.

Why don't you want to get more support for children and families so that these events don't happen in the first place? We all know schools skip that part right now.

^^^Code for get more staff promoting restorative justice. Taxpayers need to revolt. This is nuts.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SESES Family Poster -

For 16:58, respectfully, I don't think I can answer the questions about reasonable environment taxpayers should provide. We're living the process and it's harrowing and daunting. I would start from the point of what needs to these kids have and what services match the needs. Then it becomes a demand/supply question and then funding.

Also, we're at a point where we're continuing to understand our little one, learning about experiences from other families, and outcomes achieved. So I don't have a crystal ball about what model works, let alone if that model or models works for all.

Here are responses to your other questions:

As we’ve heard from dozens of seasoned educators on this forum, the issue of classroom violence is skyrocketing. What do you feel is going on?
I can only comment on our experience, which I don't think is representative of the population. I provided an example of what happens with our LO in the original post. IMO, it's a mismatch between needs and curriculum/instruction. Then there is escalation when LO isn't able to maintain the same as gen ed peers. Also, we've had a hell of a time with medication. We've dealt with multiple psychiatrists who all take a try and see approach. In IMO, we saw an increase of behavioral issues as we tried new medications and dosages. It was a nightmare.

What has helped your child the most? Any particular individual, or method? Is your son’s father in the home? How does he respond to the violence? How do you respond?
For us, letting our LO recharge outside of school was very helpful. Providing lots of options for preferred activities and socialization helped most. Also, I'm LOs father. Further, I think your questions about responding to violence miss the point. Once there's escalation to the point of violence, there's very little that can be done in the moment. Understanding the cues and deescalation is essential. Keeping calm and showing empathy is essential.

Do you believe the other children in the classroom feel safe when they come to school? How should they be protected from assault?
I think these questions are for staff and specialists that have observed incidents and families of gen ed kids. What I can say is that my LO and other kids at school are friendly toward each other. LO is looking to have positive relationships and feels depressed after a dysregulated episode. The more is happens, the bigger the hole is to get out.


Again, I'm hoping that sharing our story helps to provide more context.

Agree with this poster. When our DC was 6 and was showing similar signs we BEGGED to be seen. Everyone was brushing us off. A totally useless psychiatrist ata reputable pediatrician's office just basically diagnosed DC with ODD and called it a day. It was only after pushing and pushing did we get to someone who could really help. We also have rsources, not everyone does.

Who really helped? What did they do?

Meds + therapy + supports at school (with an advocate at our IEP meetings).

What supports?

A school
With a guidance counselor and principal
Who get special education, a Homeroom teacher who gets SEL and is supported by leadership, a great paraedicator. People who
Are willing to look out for my kid when other kids purposely try to rile them up to get a reaction.

You do realize how vague and unspecific this is, right?

What does “gets” SEL mean in terms of tangible criteria? How do you screen for that and measure for it?

Also, where is the accountability on your child’s part? Being a special Ed student doesn’t mean your kid has no role in how they behave and interact with others at school.

Well said. I’m afraid special needs mom just blew the lid off of the charade. There are certainly real disabilities that some children have, but I’m done with bad behavior getting included.

No other country in the world spends the $$$$$$$$$$ that we do coddling kids who can’t have everything they want, when they want it.

Now we see why no one can say what it is they think these kids need, because all these parents want is for their kid to be in charge, regardless of the consequences. No wonder why there’s no good place for them to be. It doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

No child can learn if they don’t want to learn. Their behavior must first get under control.

They probably need a few routine chores around the house. But wait, my kid doesn’t like chores. Chores don’t make him happy. And, he’ll probably throw something at you if you ask him again. So best not to set him off.

So I’ll just say it: stop being stupid. Most of these badly behaving kids have more brains than most of their special needs parents.

Some of it can be resolved with good parenting and good teachers but if it’s a mental health or medical issue, a few chores will not fix that.

A consistent routine that includes daily chores is good parenting. A kid who shows up to kindergarten with severe behavior problems (barring mental illness) has been poorly parented.

How often do we see parents making excuses for their kids. all. day. long?
This is the most dangerous kind of parent. They often have untreated mental illness.

You are so clueless. Sure it could be parenting, but it could be due to drug or alcoholic exposure, undiagnosed mental illness, medical issues, needs not being met at school….

NP. Sure, but if it’s really a serious issue as you claim then those kids shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids should not be forced to go to school and sit with people who behave like animals because they have mental illness or brain damage from alcohol or drug exposure. There really needs to be special facilities for those kids who pose a threat to others and essentially have no hope of recovery or ever fitting in with mainstream kids. Refusing to acknowledge this is what is destroying our public school system.

+1000
And nothing will change until more parents demand changes to ensure safety for ALL!

It all comes back to money. The vocal poster here wants to segregate kids with disabilities in self-contained programs. That's theoretically possible, but expensive. If were willing to spend more money, we could safely accomodate many kids in their current settings at lesser cost. But it is even cheaper to ignore their needs, so that's what is often done by schools.

Some of these kids need to be in self-contained programs but MCPS got rid of many of them.

Yes, because they're expensive.

No, because of low test scores.

Programs aren't reported separately from the schools they're in. This has been predominantly a money issue. That's why they similarly refuse to get sufficient paraeducators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SESES Family Poster -

For 16:58, respectfully, I don't think I can answer the questions about reasonable environment taxpayers should provide. We're living the process and it's harrowing and daunting. I would start from the point of what needs to these kids have and what services match the needs. Then it becomes a demand/supply question and then funding.

Also, we're at a point where we're continuing to understand our little one, learning about experiences from other families, and outcomes achieved. So I don't have a crystal ball about what model works, let alone if that model or models works for all.

Here are responses to your other questions:

As we’ve heard from dozens of seasoned educators on this forum, the issue of classroom violence is skyrocketing. What do you feel is going on?
I can only comment on our experience, which I don't think is representative of the population. I provided an example of what happens with our LO in the original post. IMO, it's a mismatch between needs and curriculum/instruction. Then there is escalation when LO isn't able to maintain the same as gen ed peers. Also, we've had a hell of a time with medication. We've dealt with multiple psychiatrists who all take a try and see approach. In IMO, we saw an increase of behavioral issues as we tried new medications and dosages. It was a nightmare.

What has helped your child the most? Any particular individual, or method? Is your son’s father in the home? How does he respond to the violence? How do you respond?
For us, letting our LO recharge outside of school was very helpful. Providing lots of options for preferred activities and socialization helped most. Also, I'm LOs father. Further, I think your questions about responding to violence miss the point. Once there's escalation to the point of violence, there's very little that can be done in the moment. Understanding the cues and deescalation is essential. Keeping calm and showing empathy is essential.

Do you believe the other children in the classroom feel safe when they come to school? How should they be protected from assault?
I think these questions are for staff and specialists that have observed incidents and families of gen ed kids. What I can say is that my LO and other kids at school are friendly toward each other. LO is looking to have positive relationships and feels depressed after a dysregulated episode. The more is happens, the bigger the hole is to get out.


Again, I'm hoping that sharing our story helps to provide more context.

Agree with this poster. When our DC was 6 and was showing similar signs we BEGGED to be seen. Everyone was brushing us off. A totally useless psychiatrist ata reputable pediatrician's office just basically diagnosed DC with ODD and called it a day. It was only after pushing and pushing did we get to someone who could really help. We also have rsources, not everyone does.

Who really helped? What did they do?

Meds + therapy + supports at school (with an advocate at our IEP meetings).

What supports?

A school
With a guidance counselor and principal
Who get special education, a Homeroom teacher who gets SEL and is supported by leadership, a great paraedicator. People who
Are willing to look out for my kid when other kids purposely try to rile them up to get a reaction.

You do realize how vague and unspecific this is, right?

What does “gets” SEL mean in terms of tangible criteria? How do you screen for that and measure for it?

Also, where is the accountability on your child’s part? Being a special Ed student doesn’t mean your kid has no role in how they behave and interact with others at school.

Well said. I’m afraid special needs mom just blew the lid off of the charade. There are certainly real disabilities that some children have, but I’m done with bad behavior getting included.

No other country in the world spends the $$$$$$$$$$ that we do coddling kids who can’t have everything they want, when they want it.

Now we see why no one can say what it is they think these kids need, because all these parents want is for their kid to be in charge, regardless of the consequences. No wonder why there’s no good place for them to be. It doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

No child can learn if they don’t want to learn. Their behavior must first get under control.

They probably need a few routine chores around the house. But wait, my kid doesn’t like chores. Chores don’t make him happy. And, he’ll probably throw something at you if you ask him again. So best not to set him off.

So I’ll just say it: stop being stupid. Most of these badly behaving kids have more brains than most of their special needs parents.

Some of it can be resolved with good parenting and good teachers but if it’s a mental health or medical issue, a few chores will not fix that.

A consistent routine that includes daily chores is good parenting. A kid who shows up to kindergarten with severe behavior problems (barring mental illness) has been poorly parented.

How often do we see parents making excuses for their kids. all. day. long?
This is the most dangerous kind of parent. They often have untreated mental illness.

You are so clueless. Sure it could be parenting, but it could be due to drug or alcoholic exposure, undiagnosed mental illness, medical issues, needs not being met at school….

NP. Sure, but if it’s really a serious issue as you claim then those kids shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids should not be forced to go to school and sit with people who behave like animals because they have mental illness or brain damage from alcohol or drug exposure. There really needs to be special facilities for those kids who pose a threat to others and essentially have no hope of recovery or ever fitting in with mainstream kids. Refusing to acknowledge this is what is destroying our public school system.

+1000
And nothing will change until more parents demand changes to ensure safety for ALL!

It all comes back to money. The vocal poster here wants to segregate kids with disabilities in self-contained programs. That's theoretically possible, but expensive. If were willing to spend more money, we could safely accomodate many kids in their current settings at lesser cost. But it is even cheaper to ignore their needs, so that's what is often done by schools.

Some of these kids need to be in self-contained programs but MCPS got rid of many of them.

Yes, because they're expensive.

No, because of low test scores.

Programs aren't reported separately from the schools they're in. This has been predominantly a money issue. That's why they similarly refuse to get sufficient paraeducators.

They are hiring over 700 more special education teachers for next year. Keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SESES Family Poster -

For 16:58, respectfully, I don't think I can answer the questions about reasonable environment taxpayers should provide. We're living the process and it's harrowing and daunting. I would start from the point of what needs to these kids have and what services match the needs. Then it becomes a demand/supply question and then funding.

Also, we're at a point where we're continuing to understand our little one, learning about experiences from other families, and outcomes achieved. So I don't have a crystal ball about what model works, let alone if that model or models works for all.

Here are responses to your other questions:

As we’ve heard from dozens of seasoned educators on this forum, the issue of classroom violence is skyrocketing. What do you feel is going on?
I can only comment on our experience, which I don't think is representative of the population. I provided an example of what happens with our LO in the original post. IMO, it's a mismatch between needs and curriculum/instruction. Then there is escalation when LO isn't able to maintain the same as gen ed peers. Also, we've had a hell of a time with medication. We've dealt with multiple psychiatrists who all take a try and see approach. In IMO, we saw an increase of behavioral issues as we tried new medications and dosages. It was a nightmare.

What has helped your child the most? Any particular individual, or method? Is your son’s father in the home? How does he respond to the violence? How do you respond?
For us, letting our LO recharge outside of school was very helpful. Providing lots of options for preferred activities and socialization helped most. Also, I'm LOs father. Further, I think your questions about responding to violence miss the point. Once there's escalation to the point of violence, there's very little that can be done in the moment. Understanding the cues and deescalation is essential. Keeping calm and showing empathy is essential.

Do you believe the other children in the classroom feel safe when they come to school? How should they be protected from assault?
I think these questions are for staff and specialists that have observed incidents and families of gen ed kids. What I can say is that my LO and other kids at school are friendly toward each other. LO is looking to have positive relationships and feels depressed after a dysregulated episode. The more is happens, the bigger the hole is to get out.


Again, I'm hoping that sharing our story helps to provide more context.

Agree with this poster. When our DC was 6 and was showing similar signs we BEGGED to be seen. Everyone was brushing us off. A totally useless psychiatrist ata reputable pediatrician's office just basically diagnosed DC with ODD and called it a day. It was only after pushing and pushing did we get to someone who could really help. We also have rsources, not everyone does.

Who really helped? What did they do?

Meds + therapy + supports at school (with an advocate at our IEP meetings).

What supports?

A school
With a guidance counselor and principal
Who get special education, a Homeroom teacher who gets SEL and is supported by leadership, a great paraedicator. People who
Are willing to look out for my kid when other kids purposely try to rile them up to get a reaction.

You do realize how vague and unspecific this is, right?

What does “gets” SEL mean in terms of tangible criteria? How do you screen for that and measure for it?

Also, where is the accountability on your child’s part? Being a special Ed student doesn’t mean your kid has no role in how they behave and interact with others at school.

Well said. I’m afraid special needs mom just blew the lid off of the charade. There are certainly real disabilities that some children have, but I’m done with bad behavior getting included.

No other country in the world spends the $$$$$$$$$$ that we do coddling kids who can’t have everything they want, when they want it.

Now we see why no one can say what it is they think these kids need, because all these parents want is for their kid to be in charge, regardless of the consequences. No wonder why there’s no good place for them to be. It doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

No child can learn if they don’t want to learn. Their behavior must first get under control.

They probably need a few routine chores around the house. But wait, my kid doesn’t like chores. Chores don’t make him happy. And, he’ll probably throw something at you if you ask him again. So best not to set him off.

So I’ll just say it: stop being stupid. Most of these badly behaving kids have more brains than most of their special needs parents.

Some of it can be resolved with good parenting and good teachers but if it’s a mental health or medical issue, a few chores will not fix that.

A consistent routine that includes daily chores is good parenting. A kid who shows up to kindergarten with severe behavior problems (barring mental illness) has been poorly parented.

How often do we see parents making excuses for their kids. all. day. long?
This is the most dangerous kind of parent. They often have untreated mental illness.

You are so clueless. Sure it could be parenting, but it could be due to drug or alcoholic exposure, undiagnosed mental illness, medical issues, needs not being met at school….

NP. Sure, but if it’s really a serious issue as you claim then those kids shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids should not be forced to go to school and sit with people who behave like animals because they have mental illness or brain damage from alcohol or drug exposure. There really needs to be special facilities for those kids who pose a threat to others and essentially have no hope of recovery or ever fitting in with mainstream kids. Refusing to acknowledge this is what is destroying our public school system.

+1000
And nothing will change until more parents demand changes to ensure safety for ALL!

It all comes back to money. The vocal poster here wants to segregate kids with disabilities in self-contained programs. That's theoretically possible, but expensive. If were willing to spend more money, we could safely accomodate many kids in their current settings at lesser cost. But it is even cheaper to ignore their needs, so that's what is often done by schools.

Some of these kids need to be in self-contained programs but MCPS got rid of many of them.

Yes, because they're expensive.

No, because of low test scores.

Programs aren't reported separately from the schools they're in. This has been predominantly a money issue. That's why they similarly refuse to get sufficient paraeducators.

They are hiring over 700 more special education teachers for next year. Keep up.

Next year. We're talking about the current problems. We'll see how much that helps in a district with 160,000 students. Particularly when many of those positions aren't new but are being reclassified as permanent positions rather than temporary ones.

It's a welcome first step, but isn't all that needs to be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SESES Family Poster -

For 16:58, respectfully, I don't think I can answer the questions about reasonable environment taxpayers should provide. We're living the process and it's harrowing and daunting. I would start from the point of what needs to these kids have and what services match the needs. Then it becomes a demand/supply question and then funding.

Also, we're at a point where we're continuing to understand our little one, learning about experiences from other families, and outcomes achieved. So I don't have a crystal ball about what model works, let alone if that model or models works for all.

Here are responses to your other questions:

As we’ve heard from dozens of seasoned educators on this forum, the issue of classroom violence is skyrocketing. What do you feel is going on?
I can only comment on our experience, which I don't think is representative of the population. I provided an example of what happens with our LO in the original post. IMO, it's a mismatch between needs and curriculum/instruction. Then there is escalation when LO isn't able to maintain the same as gen ed peers. Also, we've had a hell of a time with medication. We've dealt with multiple psychiatrists who all take a try and see approach. In IMO, we saw an increase of behavioral issues as we tried new medications and dosages. It was a nightmare.

What has helped your child the most? Any particular individual, or method? Is your son’s father in the home? How does he respond to the violence? How do you respond?
For us, letting our LO recharge outside of school was very helpful. Providing lots of options for preferred activities and socialization helped most. Also, I'm LOs father. Further, I think your questions about responding to violence miss the point. Once there's escalation to the point of violence, there's very little that can be done in the moment. Understanding the cues and deescalation is essential. Keeping calm and showing empathy is essential.

Do you believe the other children in the classroom feel safe when they come to school? How should they be protected from assault?
I think these questions are for staff and specialists that have observed incidents and families of gen ed kids. What I can say is that my LO and other kids at school are friendly toward each other. LO is looking to have positive relationships and feels depressed after a dysregulated episode. The more is happens, the bigger the hole is to get out.


Again, I'm hoping that sharing our story helps to provide more context.

Agree with this poster. When our DC was 6 and was showing similar signs we BEGGED to be seen. Everyone was brushing us off. A totally useless psychiatrist ata reputable pediatrician's office just basically diagnosed DC with ODD and called it a day. It was only after pushing and pushing did we get to someone who could really help. We also have rsources, not everyone does.

Who really helped? What did they do?

Meds + therapy + supports at school (with an advocate at our IEP meetings).

What supports?

A school
With a guidance counselor and principal
Who get special education, a Homeroom teacher who gets SEL and is supported by leadership, a great paraedicator. People who
Are willing to look out for my kid when other kids purposely try to rile them up to get a reaction.

You do realize how vague and unspecific this is, right?

What does “gets” SEL mean in terms of tangible criteria? How do you screen for that and measure for it?

Also, where is the accountability on your child’s part? Being a special Ed student doesn’t mean your kid has no role in how they behave and interact with others at school.

Well said. I’m afraid special needs mom just blew the lid off of the charade. There are certainly real disabilities that some children have, but I’m done with bad behavior getting included.

No other country in the world spends the $$$$$$$$$$ that we do coddling kids who can’t have everything they want, when they want it.

Now we see why no one can say what it is they think these kids need, because all these parents want is for their kid to be in charge, regardless of the consequences. No wonder why there’s no good place for them to be. It doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

No child can learn if they don’t want to learn. Their behavior must first get under control.

They probably need a few routine chores around the house. But wait, my kid doesn’t like chores. Chores don’t make him happy. And, he’ll probably throw something at you if you ask him again. So best not to set him off.

So I’ll just say it: stop being stupid. Most of these badly behaving kids have more brains than most of their special needs parents.

Some of it can be resolved with good parenting and good teachers but if it’s a mental health or medical issue, a few chores will not fix that.

A consistent routine that includes daily chores is good parenting. A kid who shows up to kindergarten with severe behavior problems (barring mental illness) has been poorly parented.

How often do we see parents making excuses for their kids. all. day. long?
This is the most dangerous kind of parent. They often have untreated mental illness.

You are so clueless. Sure it could be parenting, but it could be due to drug or alcoholic exposure, undiagnosed mental illness, medical issues, needs not being met at school….

NP. Sure, but if it’s really a serious issue as you claim then those kids shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids should not be forced to go to school and sit with people who behave like animals because they have mental illness or brain damage from alcohol or drug exposure. There really needs to be special facilities for those kids who pose a threat to others and essentially have no hope of recovery or ever fitting in with mainstream kids. Refusing to acknowledge this is what is destroying our public school system.

+1000
And nothing will change until more parents demand changes to ensure safety for ALL!

It all comes back to money. The vocal poster here wants to segregate kids with disabilities in self-contained programs. That's theoretically possible, but expensive. If were willing to spend more money, we could safely accomodate many kids in their current settings at lesser cost. But it is even cheaper to ignore their needs, so that's what is often done by schools.

Some of these kids need to be in self-contained programs but MCPS got rid of many of them.

Yes, because they're expensive.

No, because of low test scores.

Programs aren't reported separately from the schools they're in. This has been predominantly a money issue. That's why they similarly refuse to get sufficient paraeducators.

They are hiring over 700 more special education teachers for next year. Keep up.

Next year. We're talking about the current problems. We'll see how much that helps in a district with 160,000 students. Particularly when many of those positions aren't new but are being reclassified as permanent positions rather than temporary ones.

It's a welcome first step, but isn't all that needs to be done.

The school year was over yesterday so that is addressing current problems. The bigger issue is the refusal from schools to test and give IEPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SESES Family Poster -

For 16:58, respectfully, I don't think I can answer the questions about reasonable environment taxpayers should provide. We're living the process and it's harrowing and daunting. I would start from the point of what needs to these kids have and what services match the needs. Then it becomes a demand/supply question and then funding.

Also, we're at a point where we're continuing to understand our little one, learning about experiences from other families, and outcomes achieved. So I don't have a crystal ball about what model works, let alone if that model or models works for all.

Here are responses to your other questions:

As we’ve heard from dozens of seasoned educators on this forum, the issue of classroom violence is skyrocketing. What do you feel is going on?
I can only comment on our experience, which I don't think is representative of the population. I provided an example of what happens with our LO in the original post. IMO, it's a mismatch between needs and curriculum/instruction. Then there is escalation when LO isn't able to maintain the same as gen ed peers. Also, we've had a hell of a time with medication. We've dealt with multiple psychiatrists who all take a try and see approach. In IMO, we saw an increase of behavioral issues as we tried new medications and dosages. It was a nightmare.

What has helped your child the most? Any particular individual, or method? Is your son’s father in the home? How does he respond to the violence? How do you respond?
For us, letting our LO recharge outside of school was very helpful. Providing lots of options for preferred activities and socialization helped most. Also, I'm LOs father. Further, I think your questions about responding to violence miss the point. Once there's escalation to the point of violence, there's very little that can be done in the moment. Understanding the cues and deescalation is essential. Keeping calm and showing empathy is essential.

Do you believe the other children in the classroom feel safe when they come to school? How should they be protected from assault?
I think these questions are for staff and specialists that have observed incidents and families of gen ed kids. What I can say is that my LO and other kids at school are friendly toward each other. LO is looking to have positive relationships and feels depressed after a dysregulated episode. The more is happens, the bigger the hole is to get out.


Again, I'm hoping that sharing our story helps to provide more context.

Agree with this poster. When our DC was 6 and was showing similar signs we BEGGED to be seen. Everyone was brushing us off. A totally useless psychiatrist ata reputable pediatrician's office just basically diagnosed DC with ODD and called it a day. It was only after pushing and pushing did we get to someone who could really help. We also have rsources, not everyone does.

Who really helped? What did they do?

Meds + therapy + supports at school (with an advocate at our IEP meetings).

What supports?

A school
With a guidance counselor and principal
Who get special education, a Homeroom teacher who gets SEL and is supported by leadership, a great paraedicator. People who
Are willing to look out for my kid when other kids purposely try to rile them up to get a reaction.

You do realize how vague and unspecific this is, right?

What does “gets” SEL mean in terms of tangible criteria? How do you screen for that and measure for it?

Also, where is the accountability on your child’s part? Being a special Ed student doesn’t mean your kid has no role in how they behave and interact with others at school.

Well said. I’m afraid special needs mom just blew the lid off of the charade. There are certainly real disabilities that some children have, but I’m done with bad behavior getting included.

No other country in the world spends the $$$$$$$$$$ that we do coddling kids who can’t have everything they want, when they want it.

Now we see why no one can say what it is they think these kids need, because all these parents want is for their kid to be in charge, regardless of the consequences. No wonder why there’s no good place for them to be. It doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

No child can learn if they don’t want to learn. Their behavior must first get under control.

They probably need a few routine chores around the house. But wait, my kid doesn’t like chores. Chores don’t make him happy. And, he’ll probably throw something at you if you ask him again. So best not to set him off.

So I’ll just say it: stop being stupid. Most of these badly behaving kids have more brains than most of their special needs parents.

Some of it can be resolved with good parenting and good teachers but if it’s a mental health or medical issue, a few chores will not fix that.

A consistent routine that includes daily chores is good parenting. A kid who shows up to kindergarten with severe behavior problems (barring mental illness) has been poorly parented.

How often do we see parents making excuses for their kids. all. day. long?
This is the most dangerous kind of parent. They often have untreated mental illness.

You are so clueless. Sure it could be parenting, but it could be due to drug or alcoholic exposure, undiagnosed mental illness, medical issues, needs not being met at school….

NP. Sure, but if it’s really a serious issue as you claim then those kids shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids should not be forced to go to school and sit with people who behave like animals because they have mental illness or brain damage from alcohol or drug exposure. There really needs to be special facilities for those kids who pose a threat to others and essentially have no hope of recovery or ever fitting in with mainstream kids. Refusing to acknowledge this is what is destroying our public school system.

+1000
And nothing will change until more parents demand changes to ensure safety for ALL!

It all comes back to money. The vocal poster here wants to segregate kids with disabilities in self-contained programs. That's theoretically possible, but expensive. If were willing to spend more money, we could safely accomodate many kids in their current settings at lesser cost. But it is even cheaper to ignore their needs, so that's what is often done by schools.

Some of these kids need to be in self-contained programs but MCPS got rid of many of them.

Yes, because they're expensive.

No, because of low test scores.

Programs aren't reported separately from the schools they're in. This has been predominantly a money issue. That's why they similarly refuse to get sufficient paraeducators.

They are hiring over 700 more special education teachers for next year. Keep up.

How are special education teachers prepared to address violent kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SESES Family Poster -

For 16:58, respectfully, I don't think I can answer the questions about reasonable environment taxpayers should provide. We're living the process and it's harrowing and daunting. I would start from the point of what needs to these kids have and what services match the needs. Then it becomes a demand/supply question and then funding.

Also, we're at a point where we're continuing to understand our little one, learning about experiences from other families, and outcomes achieved. So I don't have a crystal ball about what model works, let alone if that model or models works for all.

Here are responses to your other questions:

As we’ve heard from dozens of seasoned educators on this forum, the issue of classroom violence is skyrocketing. What do you feel is going on?
I can only comment on our experience, which I don't think is representative of the population. I provided an example of what happens with our LO in the original post. IMO, it's a mismatch between needs and curriculum/instruction. Then there is escalation when LO isn't able to maintain the same as gen ed peers. Also, we've had a hell of a time with medication. We've dealt with multiple psychiatrists who all take a try and see approach. In IMO, we saw an increase of behavioral issues as we tried new medications and dosages. It was a nightmare.

What has helped your child the most? Any particular individual, or method? Is your son’s father in the home? How does he respond to the violence? How do you respond?
For us, letting our LO recharge outside of school was very helpful. Providing lots of options for preferred activities and socialization helped most. Also, I'm LOs father. Further, I think your questions about responding to violence miss the point. Once there's escalation to the point of violence, there's very little that can be done in the moment. Understanding the cues and deescalation is essential. Keeping calm and showing empathy is essential.

Do you believe the other children in the classroom feel safe when they come to school? How should they be protected from assault?
I think these questions are for staff and specialists that have observed incidents and families of gen ed kids. What I can say is that my LO and other kids at school are friendly toward each other. LO is looking to have positive relationships and feels depressed after a dysregulated episode. The more is happens, the bigger the hole is to get out.


Again, I'm hoping that sharing our story helps to provide more context.

Agree with this poster. When our DC was 6 and was showing similar signs we BEGGED to be seen. Everyone was brushing us off. A totally useless psychiatrist ata reputable pediatrician's office just basically diagnosed DC with ODD and called it a day. It was only after pushing and pushing did we get to someone who could really help. We also have rsources, not everyone does.

Who really helped? What did they do?

Meds + therapy + supports at school (with an advocate at our IEP meetings).

What supports?

A school
With a guidance counselor and principal
Who get special education, a Homeroom teacher who gets SEL and is supported by leadership, a great paraedicator. People who
Are willing to look out for my kid when other kids purposely try to rile them up to get a reaction.

You do realize how vague and unspecific this is, right?

What does “gets” SEL mean in terms of tangible criteria? How do you screen for that and measure for it?

Also, where is the accountability on your child’s part? Being a special Ed student doesn’t mean your kid has no role in how they behave and interact with others at school.

Well said. I’m afraid special needs mom just blew the lid off of the charade. There are certainly real disabilities that some children have, but I’m done with bad behavior getting included.

No other country in the world spends the $$$$$$$$$$ that we do coddling kids who can’t have everything they want, when they want it.

Now we see why no one can say what it is they think these kids need, because all these parents want is for their kid to be in charge, regardless of the consequences. No wonder why there’s no good place for them to be. It doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

No child can learn if they don’t want to learn. Their behavior must first get under control.

They probably need a few routine chores around the house. But wait, my kid doesn’t like chores. Chores don’t make him happy. And, he’ll probably throw something at you if you ask him again. So best not to set him off.

So I’ll just say it: stop being stupid. Most of these badly behaving kids have more brains than most of their special needs parents.

Some of it can be resolved with good parenting and good teachers but if it’s a mental health or medical issue, a few chores will not fix that.

A consistent routine that includes daily chores is good parenting. A kid who shows up to kindergarten with severe behavior problems (barring mental illness) has been poorly parented.

How often do we see parents making excuses for their kids. all. day. long?
This is the most dangerous kind of parent. They often have untreated mental illness.

You are so clueless. Sure it could be parenting, but it could be due to drug or alcoholic exposure, undiagnosed mental illness, medical issues, needs not being met at school….

NP. Sure, but if it’s really a serious issue as you claim then those kids shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids should not be forced to go to school and sit with people who behave like animals because they have mental illness or brain damage from alcohol or drug exposure. There really needs to be special facilities for those kids who pose a threat to others and essentially have no hope of recovery or ever fitting in with mainstream kids. Refusing to acknowledge this is what is destroying our public school system.

+1000
And nothing will change until more parents demand changes to ensure safety for ALL!

It all comes back to money. The vocal poster here wants to segregate kids with disabilities in self-contained programs. That's theoretically possible, but expensive. If were willing to spend more money, we could safely accomodate many kids in their current settings at lesser cost. But it is even cheaper to ignore their needs, so that's what is often done by schools.

Some of these kids need to be in self-contained programs but MCPS got rid of many of them.

Yes, because they're expensive.

No, because of low test scores.

Programs aren't reported separately from the schools they're in. This has been predominantly a money issue. That's why they similarly refuse to get sufficient paraeducators.

They are hiring over 700 more special education teachers for next year. Keep up.

Next year. We're talking about the current problems. We'll see how much that helps in a district with 160,000 students. Particularly when many of those positions aren't new but are being reclassified as permanent positions rather than temporary ones.

It's a welcome first step, but isn't all that needs to be done.

The school year was over yesterday so that is addressing current problems. The bigger issue is the refusal from schools to test and give IEPS.

Yes, that's very frustrating. We didn't have a problem with that, because it was both immediately obvious and we had private evaluations in hand, but I've certainly heard stories.

[Anonymous]

Did they really hire 700 additional special education teachers? Is there a list of these new allocations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SESES Family Poster -

For 16:58, respectfully, I don't think I can answer the questions about reasonable environment taxpayers should provide. We're living the process and it's harrowing and daunting. I would start from the point of what needs to these kids have and what services match the needs. Then it becomes a demand/supply question and then funding.

Also, we're at a point where we're continuing to understand our little one, learning about experiences from other families, and outcomes achieved. So I don't have a crystal ball about what model works, let alone if that model or models works for all.

Here are responses to your other questions:

As we’ve heard from dozens of seasoned educators on this forum, the issue of classroom violence is skyrocketing. What do you feel is going on?
I can only comment on our experience, which I don't think is representative of the population. I provided an example of what happens with our LO in the original post. IMO, it's a mismatch between needs and curriculum/instruction. Then there is escalation when LO isn't able to maintain the same as gen ed peers. Also, we've had a hell of a time with medication. We've dealt with multiple psychiatrists who all take a try and see approach. In IMO, we saw an increase of behavioral issues as we tried new medications and dosages. It was a nightmare.

What has helped your child the most? Any particular individual, or method? Is your son’s father in the home? How does he respond to the violence? How do you respond?
For us, letting our LO recharge outside of school was very helpful. Providing lots of options for preferred activities and socialization helped most. Also, I'm LOs father. Further, I think your questions about responding to violence miss the point. Once there's escalation to the point of violence, there's very little that can be done in the moment. Understanding the cues and deescalation is essential. Keeping calm and showing empathy is essential.

Do you believe the other children in the classroom feel safe when they come to school? How should they be protected from assault?
I think these questions are for staff and specialists that have observed incidents and families of gen ed kids. What I can say is that my LO and other kids at school are friendly toward each other. LO is looking to have positive relationships and feels depressed after a dysregulated episode. The more is happens, the bigger the hole is to get out.


Again, I'm hoping that sharing our story helps to provide more context.

Agree with this poster. When our DC was 6 and was showing similar signs we BEGGED to be seen. Everyone was brushing us off. A totally useless psychiatrist ata reputable pediatrician's office just basically diagnosed DC with ODD and called it a day. It was only after pushing and pushing did we get to someone who could really help. We also have rsources, not everyone does.

Who really helped? What did they do?

Meds + therapy + supports at school (with an advocate at our IEP meetings).

What supports?

A school
With a guidance counselor and principal
Who get special education, a Homeroom teacher who gets SEL and is supported by leadership, a great paraedicator. People who
Are willing to look out for my kid when other kids purposely try to rile them up to get a reaction.

You do realize how vague and unspecific this is, right?

What does “gets” SEL mean in terms of tangible criteria? How do you screen for that and measure for it?

Also, where is the accountability on your child’s part? Being a special Ed student doesn’t mean your kid has no role in how they behave and interact with others at school.

Well said. I’m afraid special needs mom just blew the lid off of the charade. There are certainly real disabilities that some children have, but I’m done with bad behavior getting included.

No other country in the world spends the $$$$$$$$$$ that we do coddling kids who can’t have everything they want, when they want it.

Now we see why no one can say what it is they think these kids need, because all these parents want is for their kid to be in charge, regardless of the consequences. No wonder why there’s no good place for them to be. It doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

No child can learn if they don’t want to learn. Their behavior must first get under control.

They probably need a few routine chores around the house. But wait, my kid doesn’t like chores. Chores don’t make him happy. And, he’ll probably throw something at you if you ask him again. So best not to set him off.

So I’ll just say it: stop being stupid. Most of these badly behaving kids have more brains than most of their special needs parents.

Some of it can be resolved with good parenting and good teachers but if it’s a mental health or medical issue, a few chores will not fix that.

A consistent routine that includes daily chores is good parenting. A kid who shows up to kindergarten with severe behavior problems (barring mental illness) has been poorly parented.

How often do we see parents making excuses for their kids. all. day. long?
This is the most dangerous kind of parent. They often have untreated mental illness.

You are so clueless. Sure it could be parenting, but it could be due to drug or alcoholic exposure, undiagnosed mental illness, medical issues, needs not being met at school….

NP. Sure, but if it’s really a serious issue as you claim then those kids shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids should not be forced to go to school and sit with people who behave like animals because they have mental illness or brain damage from alcohol or drug exposure. There really needs to be special facilities for those kids who pose a threat to others and essentially have no hope of recovery or ever fitting in with mainstream kids. Refusing to acknowledge this is what is destroying our public school system.

+1000
And nothing will change until more parents demand changes to ensure safety for ALL!

It all comes back to money. The vocal poster here wants to segregate kids with disabilities in self-contained programs. That's theoretically possible, but expensive. If were willing to spend more money, we could safely accomodate many kids in their current settings at lesser cost. But it is even cheaper to ignore their needs, so that's what is often done by schools.

Some of these kids need to be in self-contained programs but MCPS got rid of many of them.

Yes, because they're expensive.

No, because of low test scores.

Programs aren't reported separately from the schools they're in. This has been predominantly a money issue. That's why they similarly refuse to get sufficient paraeducators.

They are hiring over 700 more special education teachers for next year. Keep up.

How are special education teachers prepared to address violent kids?

The same way social workers are prepared to handle violent criminals; faith, and trust, and pixie dust!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did they really hire 700 additional special education teachers? Is there a list of these new allocations?

Where would they even find 700 special education teachers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did they really hire 700 additional special education teachers? Is there a list of these new allocations?

Where would they even find 700 special education teachers?

Most are paraeducators, and many of those are converting temporary positions into permanent ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is it can take an entire year for the teachers to document enough data for central office to ok the discrete programs, and even then, only if the parents agree. Sometimes they've been begging for it, and sometimes, unfortunately, the parents are in complete denial and don't want a "label" for their kid

Nah it’s the money. With MCPS, it’s always about cutting the cheapest deal for the kids. (More for admins)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SESES Family Poster -

For 16:58, respectfully, I don't think I can answer the questions about reasonable environment taxpayers should provide. We're living the process and it's harrowing and daunting. I would start from the point of what needs to these kids have and what services match the needs. Then it becomes a demand/supply question and then funding.

Also, we're at a point where we're continuing to understand our little one, learning about experiences from other families, and outcomes achieved. So I don't have a crystal ball about what model works, let alone if that model or models works for all.

Here are responses to your other questions:

As we’ve heard from dozens of seasoned educators on this forum, the issue of classroom violence is skyrocketing. What do you feel is going on?
I can only comment on our experience, which I don't think is representative of the population. I provided an example of what happens with our LO in the original post. IMO, it's a mismatch between needs and curriculum/instruction. Then there is escalation when LO isn't able to maintain the same as gen ed peers. Also, we've had a hell of a time with medication. We've dealt with multiple psychiatrists who all take a try and see approach. In IMO, we saw an increase of behavioral issues as we tried new medications and dosages. It was a nightmare.

What has helped your child the most? Any particular individual, or method? Is your son’s father in the home? How does he respond to the violence? How do you respond?
For us, letting our LO recharge outside of school was very helpful. Providing lots of options for preferred activities and socialization helped most. Also, I'm LOs father. Further, I think your questions about responding to violence miss the point. Once there's escalation to the point of violence, there's very little that can be done in the moment. Understanding the cues and deescalation is essential. Keeping calm and showing empathy is essential.

Do you believe the other children in the classroom feel safe when they come to school? How should they be protected from assault?
I think these questions are for staff and specialists that have observed incidents and families of gen ed kids. What I can say is that my LO and other kids at school are friendly toward each other. LO is looking to have positive relationships and feels depressed after a dysregulated episode. The more is happens, the bigger the hole is to get out.


Again, I'm hoping that sharing our story helps to provide more context.

Agree with this poster. When our DC was 6 and was showing similar signs we BEGGED to be seen. Everyone was brushing us off. A totally useless psychiatrist ata reputable pediatrician's office just basically diagnosed DC with ODD and called it a day. It was only after pushing and pushing did we get to someone who could really help. We also have rsources, not everyone does.

Who really helped? What did they do?

Meds + therapy + supports at school (with an advocate at our IEP meetings).

What supports?

A school
With a guidance counselor and principal
Who get special education, a Homeroom teacher who gets SEL and is supported by leadership, a great paraedicator. People who
Are willing to look out for my kid when other kids purposely try to rile them up to get a reaction.

You do realize how vague and unspecific this is, right?

What does “gets” SEL mean in terms of tangible criteria? How do you screen for that and measure for it?

Also, where is the accountability on your child’s part? Being a special Ed student doesn’t mean your kid has no role in how they behave and interact with others at school.

Well said. I’m afraid special needs mom just blew the lid off of the charade. There are certainly real disabilities that some children have, but I’m done with bad behavior getting included.

No other country in the world spends the $$$$$$$$$$ that we do coddling kids who can’t have everything they want, when they want it.

Now we see why no one can say what it is they think these kids need, because all these parents want is for their kid to be in charge, regardless of the consequences. No wonder why there’s no good place for them to be. It doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

No child can learn if they don’t want to learn. Their behavior must first get under control.

They probably need a few routine chores around the house. But wait, my kid doesn’t like chores. Chores don’t make him happy. And, he’ll probably throw something at you if you ask him again. So best not to set him off.

So I’ll just say it: stop being stupid. Most of these badly behaving kids have more brains than most of their special needs parents.

Some of it can be resolved with good parenting and good teachers but if it’s a mental health or medical issue, a few chores will not fix that.

A consistent routine that includes daily chores is good parenting. A kid who shows up to kindergarten with severe behavior problems (barring mental illness) has been poorly parented.

How often do we see parents making excuses for their kids. all. day. long?
This is the most dangerous kind of parent. They often have untreated mental illness.

You are so clueless. Sure it could be parenting, but it could be due to drug or alcoholic exposure, undiagnosed mental illness, medical issues, needs not being met at school….

NP. Sure, but if it’s really a serious issue as you claim then those kids shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids should not be forced to go to school and sit with people who behave like animals because they have mental illness or brain damage from alcohol or drug exposure. There really needs to be special facilities for those kids who pose a threat to others and essentially have no hope of recovery or ever fitting in with mainstream kids. Refusing to acknowledge this is what is destroying our public school system.

+1000
And nothing will change until more parents demand changes to ensure safety for ALL!

It all comes back to money. The vocal poster here wants to segregate kids with disabilities in self-contained programs. That's theoretically possible, but expensive. If were willing to spend more money, we could safely accomodate many kids in their current settings at lesser cost. But it is even cheaper to ignore their needs, so that's what is often done by schools.

Some of these kids need to be in self-contained programs but MCPS got rid of many of them.

Yes, because they're expensive.

No, because of low test scores.

Programs aren't reported separately from the schools they're in. This has been predominantly a money issue. That's why they similarly refuse to get sufficient paraeducators.

They are hiring over 700 more special education teachers for next year. Keep up.

How are special education teachers prepared to address violent kids?

Anyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SESES Family Poster -

For 16:58, respectfully, I don't think I can answer the questions about reasonable environment taxpayers should provide. We're living the process and it's harrowing and daunting. I would start from the point of what needs to these kids have and what services match the needs. Then it becomes a demand/supply question and then funding.

Also, we're at a point where we're continuing to understand our little one, learning about experiences from other families, and outcomes achieved. So I don't have a crystal ball about what model works, let alone if that model or models works for all.

Here are responses to your other questions:

As we’ve heard from dozens of seasoned educators on this forum, the issue of classroom violence is skyrocketing. What do you feel is going on?
I can only comment on our experience, which I don't think is representative of the population. I provided an example of what happens with our LO in the original post. IMO, it's a mismatch between needs and curriculum/instruction. Then there is escalation when LO isn't able to maintain the same as gen ed peers. Also, we've had a hell of a time with medication. We've dealt with multiple psychiatrists who all take a try and see approach. In IMO, we saw an increase of behavioral issues as we tried new medications and dosages. It was a nightmare.

What has helped your child the most? Any particular individual, or method? Is your son’s father in the home? How does he respond to the violence? How do you respond?
For us, letting our LO recharge outside of school was very helpful. Providing lots of options for preferred activities and socialization helped most. Also, I'm LOs father. Further, I think your questions about responding to violence miss the point. Once there's escalation to the point of violence, there's very little that can be done in the moment. Understanding the cues and deescalation is essential. Keeping calm and showing empathy is essential.

Do you believe the other children in the classroom feel safe when they come to school? How should they be protected from assault?
I think these questions are for staff and specialists that have observed incidents and families of gen ed kids. What I can say is that my LO and other kids at school are friendly toward each other. LO is looking to have positive relationships and feels depressed after a dysregulated episode. The more is happens, the bigger the hole is to get out.


Again, I'm hoping that sharing our story helps to provide more context.

Agree with this poster. When our DC was 6 and was showing similar signs we BEGGED to be seen. Everyone was brushing us off. A totally useless psychiatrist ata reputable pediatrician's office just basically diagnosed DC with ODD and called it a day. It was only after pushing and pushing did we get to someone who could really help. We also have rsources, not everyone does.

Who really helped? What did they do?

Meds + therapy + supports at school (with an advocate at our IEP meetings).

What supports?

A school
With a guidance counselor and principal
Who get special education, a Homeroom teacher who gets SEL and is supported by leadership, a great paraedicator. People who
Are willing to look out for my kid when other kids purposely try to rile them up to get a reaction.

You do realize how vague and unspecific this is, right?

What does “gets” SEL mean in terms of tangible criteria? How do you screen for that and measure for it?

Also, where is the accountability on your child’s part? Being a special Ed student doesn’t mean your kid has no role in how they behave and interact with others at school.

Well said. I’m afraid special needs mom just blew the lid off of the charade. There are certainly real disabilities that some children have, but I’m done with bad behavior getting included.

No other country in the world spends the $$$$$$$$$$ that we do coddling kids who can’t have everything they want, when they want it.

Now we see why no one can say what it is they think these kids need, because all these parents want is for their kid to be in charge, regardless of the consequences. No wonder why there’s no good place for them to be. It doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

No child can learn if they don’t want to learn. Their behavior must first get under control.

They probably need a few routine chores around the house. But wait, my kid doesn’t like chores. Chores don’t make him happy. And, he’ll probably throw something at you if you ask him again. So best not to set him off.

So I’ll just say it: stop being stupid. Most of these badly behaving kids have more brains than most of their special needs parents.

Some of it can be resolved with good parenting and good teachers but if it’s a mental health or medical issue, a few chores will not fix that.

A consistent routine that includes daily chores is good parenting. A kid who shows up to kindergarten with severe behavior problems (barring mental illness) has been poorly parented.

How often do we see parents making excuses for their kids. all. day. long?
This is the most dangerous kind of parent. They often have untreated mental illness.

You are so clueless. Sure it could be parenting, but it could be due to drug or alcoholic exposure, undiagnosed mental illness, medical issues, needs not being met at school….

NP. Sure, but if it’s really a serious issue as you claim then those kids shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids should not be forced to go to school and sit with people who behave like animals because they have mental illness or brain damage from alcohol or drug exposure. There really needs to be special facilities for those kids who pose a threat to others and essentially have no hope of recovery or ever fitting in with mainstream kids. Refusing to acknowledge this is what is destroying our public school system.

+1000
And nothing will change until more parents demand changes to ensure safety for ALL!

It all comes back to money. The vocal poster here wants to segregate kids with disabilities in self-contained programs. That's theoretically possible, but expensive. If were willing to spend more money, we could safely accomodate many kids in their current settings at lesser cost. But it is even cheaper to ignore their needs, so that's what is often done by schools.

Some of these kids need to be in self-contained programs but MCPS got rid of many of them.

Yes, because they're expensive.

No, because of low test scores.

Programs aren't reported separately from the schools they're in. This has been predominantly a money issue. That's why they similarly refuse to get sufficient paraeducators.

They are hiring over 700 more special education teachers for next year. Keep up.

Next year. We're talking about the current problems. We'll see how much that helps in a district with 160,000 students. Particularly when many of those positions aren't new but are being reclassified as permanent positions rather than temporary ones.

It's a welcome first step, but isn't all that needs to be done.

The school year was over yesterday so that is addressing current problems. The bigger issue is the refusal from schools to test and give IEPS.

Yes, that's very frustrating. We didn't have a problem with that, because it was both immediately obvious and we had private evaluations in hand, but I've certainly heard stories.

You are lucky. We have private evaluations, years of documentation and still refused. We were told it was because our child was smart and taking AP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SESES Family Poster -

For 16:58, respectfully, I don't think I can answer the questions about reasonable environment taxpayers should provide. We're living the process and it's harrowing and daunting. I would start from the point of what needs to these kids have and what services match the needs. Then it becomes a demand/supply question and then funding.

Also, we're at a point where we're continuing to understand our little one, learning about experiences from other families, and outcomes achieved. So I don't have a crystal ball about what model works, let alone if that model or models works for all.

Here are responses to your other questions:

As we’ve heard from dozens of seasoned educators on this forum, the issue of classroom violence is skyrocketing. What do you feel is going on?
I can only comment on our experience, which I don't think is representative of the population. I provided an example of what happens with our LO in the original post. IMO, it's a mismatch between needs and curriculum/instruction. Then there is escalation when LO isn't able to maintain the same as gen ed peers. Also, we've had a hell of a time with medication. We've dealt with multiple psychiatrists who all take a try and see approach. In IMO, we saw an increase of behavioral issues as we tried new medications and dosages. It was a nightmare.

What has helped your child the most? Any particular individual, or method? Is your son’s father in the home? How does he respond to the violence? How do you respond?
For us, letting our LO recharge outside of school was very helpful. Providing lots of options for preferred activities and socialization helped most. Also, I'm LOs father. Further, I think your questions about responding to violence miss the point. Once there's escalation to the point of violence, there's very little that can be done in the moment. Understanding the cues and deescalation is essential. Keeping calm and showing empathy is essential.

Do you believe the other children in the classroom feel safe when they come to school? How should they be protected from assault?
I think these questions are for staff and specialists that have observed incidents and families of gen ed kids. What I can say is that my LO and other kids at school are friendly toward each other. LO is looking to have positive relationships and feels depressed after a dysregulated episode. The more is happens, the bigger the hole is to get out.


Again, I'm hoping that sharing our story helps to provide more context.

Agree with this poster. When our DC was 6 and was showing similar signs we BEGGED to be seen. Everyone was brushing us off. A totally useless psychiatrist ata reputable pediatrician's office just basically diagnosed DC with ODD and called it a day. It was only after pushing and pushing did we get to someone who could really help. We also have rsources, not everyone does.

Who really helped? What did they do?

Meds + therapy + supports at school (with an advocate at our IEP meetings).

What supports?

A school
With a guidance counselor and principal
Who get special education, a Homeroom teacher who gets SEL and is supported by leadership, a great paraedicator. People who
Are willing to look out for my kid when other kids purposely try to rile them up to get a reaction.

You do realize how vague and unspecific this is, right?

What does “gets” SEL mean in terms of tangible criteria? How do you screen for that and measure for it?

Also, where is the accountability on your child’s part? Being a special Ed student doesn’t mean your kid has no role in how they behave and interact with others at school.

Well said. I’m afraid special needs mom just blew the lid off of the charade. There are certainly real disabilities that some children have, but I’m done with bad behavior getting included.

No other country in the world spends the $$$$$$$$$$ that we do coddling kids who can’t have everything they want, when they want it.

Now we see why no one can say what it is they think these kids need, because all these parents want is for their kid to be in charge, regardless of the consequences. No wonder why there’s no good place for them to be. It doesn’t exist. Anywhere.

No child can learn if they don’t want to learn. Their behavior must first get under control.

They probably need a few routine chores around the house. But wait, my kid doesn’t like chores. Chores don’t make him happy. And, he’ll probably throw something at you if you ask him again. So best not to set him off.

So I’ll just say it: stop being stupid. Most of these badly behaving kids have more brains than most of their special needs parents.

Some of it can be resolved with good parenting and good teachers but if it’s a mental health or medical issue, a few chores will not fix that.

A consistent routine that includes daily chores is good parenting. A kid who shows up to kindergarten with severe behavior problems (barring mental illness) has been poorly parented.

How often do we see parents making excuses for their kids. all. day. long?
This is the most dangerous kind of parent. They often have untreated mental illness.

You are so clueless. Sure it could be parenting, but it could be due to drug or alcoholic exposure, undiagnosed mental illness, medical issues, needs not being met at school….

NP. Sure, but if it’s really a serious issue as you claim then those kids shouldn’t be in mainstream schools. Kids should not be forced to go to school and sit with people who behave like animals because they have mental illness or brain damage from alcohol or drug exposure. There really needs to be special facilities for those kids who pose a threat to others and essentially have no hope of recovery or ever fitting in with mainstream kids. Refusing to acknowledge this is what is destroying our public school system.

+1000
And nothing will change until more parents demand changes to ensure safety for ALL!

It all comes back to money. The vocal poster here wants to segregate kids with disabilities in self-contained programs. That's theoretically possible, but expensive. If were willing to spend more money, we could safely accomodate many kids in their current settings at lesser cost. But it is even cheaper to ignore their needs, so that's what is often done by schools.

Some of these kids need to be in self-contained programs but MCPS got rid of many of them.

Yes, because they're expensive.

No, because of low test scores.

Programs aren't reported separately from the schools they're in. This has been predominantly a money issue. That's why they similarly refuse to get sufficient paraeducators.

They are hiring over 700 more special education teachers for next year. Keep up.

Next year. We're talking about the current problems. We'll see how much that helps in a district with 160,000 students. Particularly when many of those positions aren't new but are being reclassified as permanent positions rather than temporary ones.

It's a welcome first step, but isn't all that needs to be done.

The school year was over yesterday so that is addressing current problems. The bigger issue is the refusal from schools to test and give IEPS.

Yes, that's very frustrating. We didn't have a problem with that, because it was both immediately obvious and we had private evaluations in hand, but I've certainly heard stories.

You are lucky. We have private evaluations, years of documentation and still refused. We were told it was because our child was smart and taking AP classes.

A disability on its own isn't enough for an IEP, nor should it be. The condition needs to adversely affect education performance *and* require special education and related services to manage.

Obviously a student might perform well academically but still clearly require supports for physical impairments, medical conditions, speech therapy, behavioral support, etc. But someone seeking special academic supports or accomodations for a child already performing well academically is going to have a more challenging time demonstrating a need for those accomodations.

Most of this thread is focused on kids with self-evident needs. In those cases the school generally isn't going to fight a basic IEP, but they will frequently refuse to provide appropriate supports and services.