Very high stats kid - which schools should we be considering

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My suggestion is to get a life.

WTF is wrong with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11th grader was planning on attending our good but not great state flagship. Admissions is basically guaranteed, and it's nothing like NoVA kids fighting to get into UVA. We're a donut hole family and would need very generous aid to attend anything else, but...
In the course of 11th, kid got a 224 PSAT NMSF index, meaning they're almost guaranteed to be a NMSF. And they just recently got a 36 on the ACT. They didn't really study for either PSAT or ACT. So, which T20 or T50 schools are likely to give exceptionally generous aid or scholarships to a kid with the following stats:

Planned major: biochemistry
-GPA: 3.98 uw with one A- in 9th grade honors English
-APs: 5s in Calc, Chemistry, US Government, Euro History. 4 in English Lit. Will finish high school with 10 APs and another 5 post-APs.
-NMSF
-ACT 36
-EC: okay, but not related at all to the major. Performance in 3 school plays, with a lead role in 1. DM for school Dungeons and Dragons club. 3 years of mock trial.
-community service: okay, but nothing special.

Kid is perfectly content to do the honors college at the state flagship, but we'd like a few other options on the table. Any suggestions?

Others have mentioned some good options so I will just outline the generalities.

T20 is probably out. They have all the top stats needed and that profile doesn't standout except for academics.

There are T30-T70 Universities which will like your numbers and should give some aid which may or may not be enough. Good schools, solid education, if they are publics classes will be large for a couple of years (like any public).

There are T30-T50 SLACs which will also like your numbers and offer aid. Might get COA to $40-45 but likely not to $30K. Thye are fantastic options for learning, as good as anywhere when it comes to the education.

There are schools which buy NMSF students, Bama, and Tulsa have great packages (I really like Tulsa) and ohtes which are generous like USC and Fordham. Look into them and if you find a fit go for it.

You can have great choices, just not at the tippy top.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At $150k, kid would get substantial financial aid at a top Ivy if they can get in. Worth a flier, but far from a certainty.

Essentially a very low chance for anyone…and even more so with those ECs and service hrs. At least IMO, it would be a throwaway.

Agree the T25 not likely with that resume unless there is a hook. What state are you in op?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At $150k, kid would get substantial financial aid at a top Ivy if they can get in. Worth a flier, but far from a certainty.

Essentially a very low chance for anyone…and even more so with those ECs and service hrs. At least IMO, it would be a throwaway.

Agree the T25 not likely with that resume unless there is a hook. What state are you in op?

One where geographic diversity would help my kid and not hurt them at T50 type schools.

I wasn't sure how dime-a-dozen kids are who have NMSF, non-superscored one-and-done 36 ACT, nearly perfect grades, and a boatload of APs with mostly 5s. Based on this forum, they must be really common. My kid takes the SAT in a couple weeks. I'm guessing that a 1550+ score will do nothing whatsoever to change the kid's profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t you using your college counselor from school as your resource? This is what they do.

NP. And this forum is also here for these types of posts and questions. People can do both and plenty of college counselors are overwhelmed and unable to give personalized and customized attention. Sheesh, tough crowd here today!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At $150k, kid would get substantial financial aid at a top Ivy if they can get in. Worth a flier, but far from a certainty.

Essentially a very low chance for anyone…and even more so with those ECs and service hrs. At least IMO, it would be a throwaway.

Agree the T25 not likely with that resume unless there is a hook. What state are you in op?

One where geographic diversity would help my kid and not hurt them at T50 type schools.

I wasn't sure how dime-a-dozen kids are who have NMSF, non-superscored one-and-done 36 ACT, nearly perfect grades, and a boatload of APs with mostly 5s. Based on this forum, they must be really common. My kid takes the SAT in a couple weeks. I'm guessing that a 1550+ score will do nothing whatsoever to change the kid's profile.

Here's the thing. They look at the stats for 1 second. It gets you in the room. After that, the stats are IGNORED. That's at any T30 or so....
It then becomes about the kid's narrative or story. How tightly its knitted together. Fit to major, LOR etc.

Now, schools like Tulsa may give your kid a full ride. That may be worth something to you.

[Anonymous]

High stats and donut hole family = state university

Your kid is smart not to be picky. You have a very smart kid.

[Anonymous]

https://blog.collegevine.com/national-merit-scholarship-full-ride

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At $150k, kid would get substantial financial aid at a top Ivy if they can get in. Worth a flier, but far from a certainty.

Essentially a very low chance for anyone…and even more so with those ECs and service hrs. At least IMO, it would be a throwaway.

Agree the T25 not likely with that resume unless there is a hook. What state are you in op?

One where geographic diversity would help my kid and not hurt them at T50 type schools.

I wasn't sure how dime-a-dozen kids are who have NMSF, non-superscored one-and-done 36 ACT, nearly perfect grades, and a boatload of APs with mostly 5s. Based on this forum, they must be really common. My kid takes the SAT in a couple weeks. I'm guessing that a 1550+ score will do nothing whatsoever to change the kid's profile.

Why biochem? Pick a major that matches the ECs?
5s in US Gov and Euro. And Performance in school plays and mock trial. [NOTE: What were the school plays? If anything historic, might be able to use as evidence for a humanities major too]
Why biochem? Horrible, horrible idea. I would do a multidisciplinary humanities major personally.

If you HAVE to do science, look at majors like:

- Science, Technology & Society (with the thematic area: Policy, Persuasion and the Rhetoric of Science) at Brown. Could tie in mock trial/humanities (and ask US Govt teacher for LOR)
- Science in Human Culture (Northwestern University)

Otherwise, look at some of the below to build on the ECs the kid does have:

- Justice and Peace Studies (Georgetown University) (less common than IR or Govt)
- Philosophy, Politics, and Economics (PPE) (Dartmouth College)
- Religion, Ethics, and Politics (Princeton University)
- Medieval and Renaissance Studies (Cornell University)
- Ethics, Politics, and Economics (Yale University)

If you are from an underrepresented state (which one?), with stats like this, help your kid strengthen their profile. They need more impactful ECs and an award or 2. Are they a writer?
Otherwise, help develop a summer independent project - a few ideas below:

- Interactive Digital Storytelling Project
Combine D&D world-building skills with digital media
Create an interactive narrative experience exploring ethical dilemmas
Could focus on science ethics to bridge biochemistry interests (if staying with science)

- Mock Trial Workshop Series for Underprivileged Students
Develop and lead mock trial workshops for middle school students
Focus on critical thinking, public speaking, and logical reasoning
Create a curriculum that could be replicated easily.

Summer Job
Does your kid have a summer job? Working behind the scenes at a professional theater production would be great. Or even something in period costuming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At $150k, kid would get substantial financial aid at a top Ivy if they can get in. Worth a flier, but far from a certainty.

Essentially a very low chance for anyone…and even more so with those ECs and service hrs. At least IMO, it would be a throwaway.

Agree the T25 not likely with that resume unless there is a hook. What state are you in op?

One where geographic diversity would help my kid and not hurt them at T50 type schools.

I wasn't sure how dime-a-dozen kids are who have NMSF, non-superscored one-and-done 36 ACT, nearly perfect grades, and a boatload of APs with mostly 5s. Based on this forum, they must be really common. My kid takes the SAT in a couple weeks. I'm guessing that a 1550+ score will do nothing whatsoever to change the kid's profile.

Based on results we had this year, it's not quite as cut and dry as some of the PPs are making it out to be. My similar stats DC broke into the top 25 without a perfect narrative - more of a well-rounded kid than a super-spikey clear story. Top 10 apps were not successful, but that was not our be-all and end all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t you using your college counselor from school as your resource? This is what they do.

Yes. You've repeated this about 4 times. The college counselor is new and not great. So I'm crowdsourcing.

Don't let the rude responses get to you - you've asked a perfectly legitimate question! Not everyone lives their lives on DCUM College/University Discussion board but those who do seem to know it all and aren't very friendly or happy - it has nothing to do with you.
Good luck with your smart student!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11th grader was planning on attending our good but not great state flagship. Admissions is basically guaranteed, and it's nothing like NoVA kids fighting to get into UVA. We're a donut hole family and would need very generous aid to attend anything else, but...
In the course of 11th, kid got a 224 PSAT NMSF index, meaning they're almost guaranteed to be a NMSF. And they just recently got a 36 on the ACT. They didn't really study for either PSAT or ACT. So, which T20 or T50 schools are likely to give exceptionally generous aid or scholarships to a kid with the following stats:

Planned major: biochemistry
-GPA: 3.98 uw with one A- in 9th grade honors English
-APs: 5s in Calc, Chemistry, US Government, Euro History. 4 in English Lit. Will finish high school with 10 APs and another 5 post-APs.
-NMSF
-ACT 36
-EC: okay, but not related at all to the major. Performance in 3 school plays, with a lead role in 1. DM for school Dungeons and Dragons club. 3 years of mock trial.
-community service: okay, but nothing special.

Kid is perfectly content to do the honors college at the state flagship, but we'd like a few other options on the table. Any suggestions?

USC
Case

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/merit-aid

+++ If your kid materially strengthens the app (as suggested above), try for:
Swarthmore, WashU, Vanderbilt, Wake, Davidson, BU, Emory.
Wake, BU, and Davidson merit awards will be easier to obtain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At $150k, kid would get substantial financial aid at a top Ivy if they can get in. Worth a flier, but far from a certainty.

Essentially a very low chance for anyone…and even more so with those ECs and service hrs. At least IMO, it would be a throwaway.

Agree the T25 not likely with that resume unless there is a hook. What state are you in op?

One where geographic diversity would help my kid and not hurt them at T50 type schools.

I wasn't sure how dime-a-dozen kids are who have NMSF, non-superscored one-and-done 36 ACT, nearly perfect grades, and a boatload of APs with mostly 5s. Based on this forum, they must be really common. My kid takes the SAT in a couple weeks. I'm guessing that a 1550+ score will do nothing whatsoever to change the kid's profile.

Based on results we had this year, it's not quite as cut and dry as some of the PPs are making it out to be. My similar stats DC broke into the top 25 without a perfect narrative - more of a well-rounded kid than a super-spikey clear story. Top 10 apps were not successful, but that was not our be-all and end all

Merit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you may be aware, few T20-T50s offer big merit. They are reaches without the financial aspect. The big merit scholarships are super reaches. The lower you look in ranking, the more big merit becomes a possibility.

For T20s, there are big scholarships offered to a few students at Duke, Vandy, WashU. Not sure about others. When you expand to T50, there are big scholarships of varying sizes at places like BC (full tuition, very hard to get), full or half tuition at BU, etc. So, you need to be clear to your student about what would be affordable if a top scholarship came through - can you afford the 20k room and board if there was a full tuition scholarship on the table.

It makes sense to give these merit scholarships a shot, though I'd be planning on one of the NMF full rides, and booking a trip to Tuscaloosa at this point, sell the Alabama experience. I have relatives who attended for the big money and loved it.

Thanks for being the one person willing to give a helpful response. We 100% assumed that we would not be able to afford any top schools, and that the state flagship would be our only affordable and decent enough option. I didn't want to sell my kid short, so I wanted to see what else might be on the table. At least for us, there's no point in applying at all if we're unlikely to be able to afford attending.

I'll still probably ask the moderator to delete this thread. This forum is rough.

PP. Ignore the rude responses - that is very typical for this forum.

Do try the Net Price Calculators at some top schools to see if they'd give enough need-based aid. You might, or might not, be pleasantly surprised. Hard for anyone to guess because your assets also impact the college's need calculation.

Since you may be new to the world of college admissions, just to add something about keeping admission expectations realistic, my kid had 3.98/1570 and was outright rejected from: Brown, Columbia, Vandy, Georgetown, USC, UCLA/UCB/UCSD, and BU. Waitlisted Northwestern, Tufts, Michigan, NYU, Northeastern. We can comfortably afford full pay and did not apply for financial aid anywhere. Planning to attend safety state flagship unless one of the waitlists comes through. What might have made a difference: binding Early Decision (ED), which my kid did not do. If you end up finding that top schools may be affordable with need-based aid, and your kid ends up having a top choice among them, then ED is the way to go.

Ouch. And yes, I am new to college admissions. I'm relieved that my kid is perfectly content with the state flagship. I really just didn't want to sell my kid short by doing a one and done application to the state school without seeing what else might work for us. All of the ivies seem to think that we can afford something in the $30k-$40k neighborhood. To me, that feels like a huge stretch and a bad ROI compared to the expected nearly free ride at the state school. The UC schools are definitely a no go, as they would give minimal or no aid and be more expensive than the ivies. I know almost nothing about SLACs.

Here's the thing:
My Test Optional /3.85uw (private) kid got into several of the schools listed above (Northwestern, MI, UCLA, Vanderbilt and USC).....not from California either. Full pay.
The key was outstanding ECs and a tight "fit to major" narrative; stellar LOR. And a humanities major.

[Anonymous]

There are also schools like Marquette, creighton, Xavier and the like that offer generous financial aid. They sit below the bc/notre dame/duke tier, but are still good schools, and are in less “desirable” locations, so they need to offer aid to attract top students. I would think those 3 would be below $30k out of pocket for you. There are many others like them.