Due to tarffis, new warning for EUROPE that $100B in drugs may flee to the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, why would any sane person make an investment in the US right now? There is a mad dictator in charge with no respect for the rule of law, does not respect international trade (which US any manufacturing will still rely on because all manufacturing has a supply chain) and who doesn't believe in science.

If I were to invest in the US, I wouldn't do it under Trump admin. Way too volatile, and you have to kowtow to his demands. The US is more of a fascist dictatorship than a democratic capitalist country now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes I’m sure they will be moving to the country that is gutting medical R&D and all of its health related regulatory agencies. And also is run by an anti-science blowhard who may well turn on a dime and start attacking them and their businesses.

Doesn't matter. US is by far the most important to every single pharma company's bottom line. Period. Pharma themselves can design quality standards, if needed.

Really? Who is going to continue to subsidize pharma? Medicare is going away and Trump is cutting all research. People will not be able to afford the drugs. We are talking huge reductions in the profit of drug makers. Look for big layoff in that industry. Big Pharma is looking over a cliff.

This is the most likely scenario. And most of the fired fed.ans academic scientists move to Europe.

[Anonymous]

10% tariffs are not enough to relocate a factory. Plus what all the sane people are saying. No one will invest billions in the US.

Car manufacturers invested 23 billion and created 200,000 jobs building EV and battery manufacturing in red states. Trump is killing all that.

Money talks Fox propaganda walks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a massive positive outcome due to the tarriffs:

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/trump-tariffs-drugs-industry-warns-eu-100b-plus-pharma-exodus-us

Look, I am not T cheerleader, but having an absolutely vital industry to national security return to the US to the tune of $100B is a great outcome. This is one area where it was a massive mistake to lose our base in terms of manufacturing. If this outcome comes to fruition, I'd give T the win here, even if it cost some short term 401k dip. If the US has the best market for things like pharma, then make it a requirement to manufacture here if they want to sell here. Chinese do the same stuff but even worse, yet they're never called out on it.

Wake the f up. Europe and the US trade is worth over a trillion dollars. That is all going away. The Europeans have been actively recruiting scientists, chemists, etc from all the fired US federal employees and universities scientists, chemist, researchers, etc who have lost grants and federal research dollars. All the drug innovations in the US come from federal grants and research. That is now over. Add in Robert Kennedy and anti science stuff AND NOTHING IS COMING TO THE US.

The article is pure right wing nut job fantasy. No one is investing in manufacturing in the US. The regulatory environment and government interference is too great to invest anything. The Tariff change hourly, the graft and corruption is too expensive. Capital is fleeing the US. The scientific brain drain is huge.

This is the new world order.

I call BS. If this were true then we wouldn’t be paying the highest drug prices in the world. It costs pennies to manufacture drugs. The high cost is due to patents because it’s private companies making the innovations.

You are ignoring the difference between basic research and engineering development/marketing.

You ignore R&D vs marketing. Big pharma spend more on marketing vs R&D.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a massive positive outcome due to the tarriffs:

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/trump-tariffs-drugs-industry-warns-eu-100b-plus-pharma-exodus-us

Look, I am not T cheerleader, but having an absolutely vital industry to national security return to the US to the tune of $100B is a great outcome. This is one area where it was a massive mistake to lose our base in terms of manufacturing. If this outcome comes to fruition, I'd give T the win here, even if it cost some short term 401k dip. If the US has the best market for things like pharma, then make it a requirement to manufacture here if they want to sell here. Chinese do the same stuff but even worse, yet they're never called out on it.

Wake the f up. Europe and the US trade is worth over a trillion dollars. That is all going away. The Europeans have been actively recruiting scientists, chemists, etc from all the fired US federal employees and universities scientists, chemist, researchers, etc who have lost grants and federal research dollars. All the drug innovations in the US come from federal grants and research. That is now over. Add in Robert Kennedy and anti science stuff AND NOTHING IS COMING TO THE US.

The article is pure right wing nut job fantasy. No one is investing in manufacturing in the US. The regulatory environment and government interference is too great to invest anything. The Tariff change hourly, the graft and corruption is too expensive. Capital is fleeing the US. The scientific brain drain is huge.

This is the new world order.

I call BS. If this were true then we wouldn’t be paying the highest drug prices in the world. It costs pennies to manufacture drugs. The high cost is due to patents because it’s private companies making the innovations.

you are paying the highest price in the world because you are dumb and let pharma pay Congress to let them run wild with drug prices. yes R&D is expensive and patenting is expensive but drug cost here Xtimes more than in other countries because you allow them. you remember pharma-bro? he took a drug developed 100 years ago and jacked up the price 500 times just because he could. why in an alleged capitalistic system the largest insurer/payer (Medicare) cannot negotiate the price of drugs with manufacturer?
the FDA has been gutted and is not working (I know, my spouse works there and has been basically unable to do his job in the past two months due to being prevented from communicating with the outside and everything he does must go through a dumb higher up placed there by Trump so a huge bottleneck and nothing gets done), head of new drug out, supplies and travel offices gutted, so yeah if Europe can get its s$it together this will be a boon to Europe

[Anonymous]

To be fair, we do subsidize (US drug co) pharma in Europe and other parts of the world - their systems work differently than ours so more or less, we work it that way, among other reasons I suspect (ie we may profit in the US LOL). So the prices in the US are reflective of the overall healthcare system - you know, the corrupt one that has hospitals + insurance + pharma working together to present the highest bill to us as possible.

In other words, we pay the highest prices in the world for drugs because pharma is able to charge more in the US or has to charge more in the US in order to run their markets elsewhere in the world.

Now, if Trump raises tariffs on drugs, it can actually change how status quo (I'm just suggesting that there's a chance shit will work differently, not that it will and not that this whole tariff nightmare was ever a good idea). It really is dependent on specifically where and how he raises them. I'm not confidence his admin has the brains to actually make this a worthy cause for Americans but I'm just painting the pic of how shit gets done today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To be fair, we do subsidize (US drug co) pharma in Europe and other parts of the world - their systems work differently than ours so more or less, we work it that way, among other reasons I suspect (ie we may profit in the US LOL). So the prices in the US are reflective of the overall healthcare system - you know, the corrupt one that has hospitals + insurance + pharma working together to present the highest bill to us as possible.

In other words, we pay the highest prices in the world for drugs because pharma is able to charge more in the US or has to charge more in the US in order to run their markets elsewhere in the world.

Now, if Trump raises tariffs on drugs, it can actually change how status quo (I'm just suggesting that there's a chance shit will work differently, not that it will and not that this whole tariff nightmare was ever a good idea). It really is dependent on specifically where and how he raises them. I'm not confidence his admin has the brains to actually make this a worthy cause for Americans but I'm just painting the pic of how shit gets done today.

Completely on a side note and a very simplistic one at that, but, as an example, Europe's 2 largest drug companies had profits of $29B and $25 billions in 2023. I don't think higher drug prices in US can be framed as necessary SUBSIDIZING of European pharmaceutical market. The pharma companies would be wealthy even if US would negotiate (the way EU does) and pay less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To be fair, we do subsidize (US drug co) pharma in Europe and other parts of the world - their systems work differently than ours so more or less, we work it that way, among other reasons I suspect (ie we may profit in the US LOL). So the prices in the US are reflective of the overall healthcare system - you know, the corrupt one that has hospitals + insurance + pharma working together to present the highest bill to us as possible.

In other words, we pay the highest prices in the world for drugs because pharma is able to charge more in the US or has to charge more in the US in order to run their markets elsewhere in the world.

Now, if Trump raises tariffs on drugs, it can actually change how status quo (I'm just suggesting that there's a chance shit will work differently, not that it will and not that this whole tariff nightmare was ever a good idea). It really is dependent on specifically where and how he raises them. I'm not confidence his admin has the brains to actually make this a worthy cause for Americans but I'm just painting the pic of how shit gets done today.

The US government pays for a lot of drugs through Medicare, Medicaid and the VA. Medicare alone spent 216 billion on prescription drugs. To actually force companied to relocate plants to the US a minimum tariff of 25% would be needed. In reality it would be more like 50% because actually cost for an established plant to make a drug is a few cents per pill. So the existing factories will undercut a new facility.

Still Medicare will have to pay an additional 60 billion dollars at a minimum for drugs.

[Anonymous]

Today's nonsense is Exhibit A for way no sane person would invest in Trump's America.

[Anonymous]

AND HE FOLDS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like a massive positive outcome due to the tarriffs:

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/trump-tariffs-drugs-industry-warns-eu-100b-plus-pharma-exodus-us

Look, I am not T cheerleader, but having an absolutely vital industry to national security return to the US to the tune of $100B is a great outcome. This is one area where it was a massive mistake to lose our base in terms of manufacturing. If this outcome comes to fruition, I'd give T the win here, even if it cost some short term 401k dip. If the US has the best market for things like pharma, then make it a requirement to manufacture here if they want to sell here. Chinese do the same stuff but even worse, yet they're never called out on it.

Wake the f up. Europe and the US trade is worth over a trillion dollars. That is all going away. The Europeans have been actively recruiting scientists, chemists, etc from all the fired US federal employees and universities scientists, chemist, researchers, etc who have lost grants and federal research dollars. All the drug innovations in the US come from federal grants and research. That is now over. Add in Robert Kennedy and anti science stuff AND NOTHING IS COMING TO THE US.

The article is pure right wing nut job fantasy. No one is investing in manufacturing in the US. The regulatory environment and government interference is too great to invest anything. The Tariff change hourly, the graft and corruption is too expensive. Capital is fleeing the US. The scientific brain drain is huge.

This is the new world order.

I call BS. If this were true then we wouldn’t be paying the highest drug prices in the world. It costs pennies to manufacture drugs. The high cost is due to patents because it’s private companies making the innovations.

Every single drug approved by the FDA 2010-2016 had NIH-funded studies involved. Every one. The basic science behind the innovations happen at med schools and other R1 or R2 institutions that advance the science. Private companies build on established research, then spend years in clinical trials, which is time consuming and expensive.

Who says all that critical study funding is going away? There have been cuts, but many seem like wasteful spending with minimal utility for treatment of pressing diseases.

Yeah. Who dies of cancer anymore anyway. That’s not pressing.

Cancer is big business. It’s NEVER going away.

[Anonymous]

Drugs are already too high and we will pay even more.

Per my doctor, almost all drugs are made in India.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AND HE FOLDS

Whelp I guess all those Pharma relocations to the US (that were never going to happen anyway) are now off.