Re-instituting Virtual Academy in MCPS

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we bring back the MVA but in a much smaller and more exclusive way? There were 2 students who were found to have moved out of state who were still attending. There were kids with no medical needs who just appreciated the comforts of school from their bed. For the first 2 years of existence, the MVA placed all of the IEP meetings and paperwork on the kids home school which I never understood why they couldn’t host their own meetings. Last year, I read IEPs for MVA students which were full of statements about the students which were simply not true (understandable given that the case manager never met the kid in person). If it comes back, someone needs to make a clear policy about who is it appropriate for.

No. Because the MVA some things like IEPs, services and testing were done in the home schools. Some of us refused testing that was not a graduation requirement for a variety of reasons. The MVA is appropriate for any child who wants to be in it and has parent support. Kids were in it for tons of reasons including being bullied or not feeling safe. Why didn’t you support those kids more so they would have done better in your school? People like you are one reason why some families choose the MVA.

Parents don't get to pick the school that is most convenient for them. If you want to send your kids to a special school for which there is not a compelling medical need, then you can pay for it yourself.

Actually they do. There is now a charter and for some areas there are consortium as well as speciality programs. The MVA was open to all. And, just think, if it reopens, the kids you clearly don’t want in your school can have a place to go to get a quality education with teachers and staff who care.

By your logic we should get rid of all the magnet and other special programs as well.

I very much would like to see the rest of the former MVA students return to school. Most have.

If you work for MCPS, you should be terminated as it should be what’s best for the child and family, not what you want as you clearly are part of why kids don’t return.

Do you understand about 1/3 the kids left MCPS, and when they left they took that finding. Another 1/3 or so are in other MC.p.s programs now not getting a proper education. We have people like you to thank.

If you wanted those kids to return in person you should have done a better job meeting their needs.

I don't think we have these numbers. Maybe MVA parents did an informal poll regarding *intentions* but we know intentions aren't the same as actions. I also want to respond directly to the idea that "we" should have done a better job meeting the needs of MVA kids. One of the biggest challenges is that parents of MVA kids resisted any of the testing or protocols that would have helped determine the appropriate supports. So "we" are meant to provide a tailored education in a 10:1 setting because the parents say that's how their child learns best, but without any of the normal testing that leads to that sort of ratio. Every child would learn best in a tiny classroom! That doesn't mean MCPS isn't meeting the needs of every kid, it means we don't have the resources for those sorts of ratios without a compelling need.

Those numbers are obviously made up and wrong. The vast majority of MVA's 2600 former students returned to school.

And most school funding isn't allocated on a per pupil basis anyway.

Kids were in it for different reasons. The initial wave was due to Covid and then they refused entry to new kids. The last group, the majority did not return. Many left MCPS, others are doing the two other programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we bring back the MVA but in a much smaller and more exclusive way? There were 2 students who were found to have moved out of state who were still attending. There were kids with no medical needs who just appreciated the comforts of school from their bed. For the first 2 years of existence, the MVA placed all of the IEP meetings and paperwork on the kids home school which I never understood why they couldn’t host their own meetings. Last year, I read IEPs for MVA students which were full of statements about the students which were simply not true (understandable given that the case manager never met the kid in person). If it comes back, someone needs to make a clear policy about who is it appropriate for.

No. Because the MVA some things like IEPs, services and testing were done in the home schools. Some of us refused testing that was not a graduation requirement for a variety of reasons. The MVA is appropriate for any child who wants to be in it and has parent support. Kids were in it for tons of reasons including being bullied or not feeling safe. Why didn’t you support those kids more so they would have done better in your school? People like you are one reason why some families choose the MVA.

Parents don't get to pick the school that is most convenient for them. If you want to send your kids to a special school for which there is not a compelling medical need, then you can pay for it yourself.

Actually they do. There is now a charter and for some areas there are consortium as well as speciality programs. The MVA was open to all. And, just think, if it reopens, the kids you clearly don’t want in your school can have a place to go to get a quality education with teachers and staff who care.

By your logic we should get rid of all the magnet and other special programs as well.

I mean, I think the problem with your comparison is that each of those "specialty" programs has some sort of requirements for entry, whether it's living in-bounds, doing an application/lottery, passing a criteria-based test, or applying to the charter.

What people are reacting to here is that MVA didn't have any of that. If you want to make the argument that MVA is functionally a special education program, then make that case but be aware that special education resources are rationed. I cannot opt my child into a program just because I like the ratios, without a compelling need for the public to take on the additional cost of educating my special needs child.

I believe whole-heartedly in educating children with learning differences, behavioral and emotional challenges, and all sorts of other needs, but we have systems in place for a reason.

You are coming across as someone who had zero experience with the MVA or our kids. You really have no clue what you are talking about. You actually don’t have systems in place and many of the ones you do either the adults don’t follow through or it wasn’t a good experience or kids were denied what they need. In person is not a good or healthy experience for all. Fix the problems in MCPS before you demand things you don’t understand.

MVA did educate many kids with special needs and if anything it saved the county money and resources as the parents were acting as the supports for their kids and many did outside therapies.

People like you are the problem. You don’t understand individual kids needs or family needs. If you made sure all these kids needs were met and they were safe, then maybe there would be no need for this discussion.

MCPS lost more money with the kids who left MCPS and then you combine those with the sped programs and the other alternative programs and it actually lost money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think MD should create a virtual academy for the entire state.

The bill encourages districts that aren’t able to create their own virtual academy to team up with other districts and share academies. So maybe they all end up teaming up with whatever district has the best program and essentially create a state wide school. But the state isn’t going to do that via the bill that’s proposed - it puts the mandate on each district to figure it out.

You realize that a state wide program would cost more and be paid out of MCPS funds. Why do you keep pushing it? It’s not what anyone wants. The money is there.

That’s right. The money follows the student. So if MCPS reinstitutes the virtual academy, it just takes money away from whatever in-person school the now virtual student attends and shifts it to the virtual program. Not sure how MCPS reported to the state legislature that closing the MVA saved the county millions. It should have been pretty neutral since they money is there and is just shifting around from brick and mortar schools to the online program.

It wouldn't simply "shift" money around because a school doesn't suddenly become $18k less expensive to operate when one student moves out. Adding virtual programs would increase the overall costs of schools.

Umm, no. Fewer students means fewer teachers, fewer portables, less subsidy of lunches, fewer buildings and fewer buses.

But one or two fewer students at a school doesn't allow you to have fewer teachers, fewer portables, fewer buildings or fewer buses.

System wide, there were not 1-2 students, there were enough to consolidate. Time to get more nimble.

First, they stopped allowing students to enter so numbers were artificially lower, second, it still reduces class sizes which is good. Closing the MVA was planned well in advance, at least a year. It was obvious to some of us but the Deans lied and kept denying it when asked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we bring back the MVA but in a much smaller and more exclusive way? There were 2 students who were found to have moved out of state who were still attending. There were kids with no medical needs who just appreciated the comforts of school from their bed. For the first 2 years of existence, the MVA placed all of the IEP meetings and paperwork on the kids home school which I never understood why they couldn’t host their own meetings. Last year, I read IEPs for MVA students which were full of statements about the students which were simply not true (understandable given that the case manager never met the kid in person). If it comes back, someone needs to make a clear policy about who is it appropriate for.

No. Because the MVA some things like IEPs, services and testing were done in the home schools. Some of us refused testing that was not a graduation requirement for a variety of reasons. The MVA is appropriate for any child who wants to be in it and has parent support. Kids were in it for tons of reasons including being bullied or not feeling safe. Why didn’t you support those kids more so they would have done better in your school? People like you are one reason why some families choose the MVA.

Parents don't get to pick the school that is most convenient for them. If you want to send your kids to a special school for which there is not a compelling medical need, then you can pay for it yourself.

Actually they do. There is now a charter and for some areas there are consortium as well as speciality programs. The MVA was open to all. And, just think, if it reopens, the kids you clearly don’t want in your school can have a place to go to get a quality education with teachers and staff who care.

By your logic we should get rid of all the magnet and other special programs as well.

I very much would like to see the rest of the former MVA students return to school. Most have.

If you work for MCPS, you should be terminated as it should be what’s best for the child and family, not what you want as you clearly are part of why kids don’t return.

Do you understand about 1/3 the kids left MCPS, and when they left they took that finding. Another 1/3 or so are in other MC.p.s programs now not getting a proper education. We have people like you to thank.

If you wanted those kids to return in person you should have done a better job meeting their needs.

I don't think we have these numbers. Maybe MVA parents did an informal poll regarding *intentions* but we know intentions aren't the same as actions. I also want to respond directly to the idea that "we" should have done a better job meeting the needs of MVA kids. One of the biggest challenges is that parents of MVA kids resisted any of the testing or protocols that would have helped determine the appropriate supports. So "we" are meant to provide a tailored education in a 10:1 setting because the parents say that's how their child learns best, but without any of the normal testing that leads to that sort of ratio. Every child would learn best in a tiny classroom! That doesn't mean MCPS isn't meeting the needs of every kid, it means we don't have the resources for those sorts of ratios without a compelling need.

Of, there was testing. MCPS refused to release it. All kids did MAP at home. Some kids who could went to their home schools for other testing. Our classrooms were not small. Most had 20-40 kids in it. Average for us was in the mid to high 30s.

What’s a compelling need? A child with serious health, mental health or a physical disability? A parent who cannot get their child to school where no bus is offered? A child who was severely bullied and staff like you ignored it? Kids who learn better as it’s more structured and visual? Kids who need more support whose teachers ignore them? Teens who are parents with no child care?

If you were able to meet these kids needs, don’t you think they would have all come back?

And, as an MCPS staff member if you are spending your school day here, it speaks volumes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think MD should create a virtual academy for the entire state.

I agree with this. I have no issue with a virtual academy in principle. I can easily accept that different kids have different needs and excel in different environments. But it seems it would be much more cost effective and offer more educational opportunities to student if this was administered on a larger, statewide scale.

+1, should be a statewide program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The program was a heck of a lot cheaper than sending 1-2 kids to private placement paid for by MCPS due to their not being able to be in regular school. It would pay for itself.

In practice, it doesn't. The same number of kids go into private placement because they're all at capacity. And even with the high cost of private placement, it would take a lot of students to offset the high cost of MVA.

[Anonymous]

I moved my kid to Montgomery County to learn Montgomery Country virtual arithmetic and history.

I'm not paying taxes for my kid to learn Allegheny County virtual arithmetic and history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The program was a heck of a lot cheaper than sending 1-2 kids to private placement paid for by MCPS due to their not being able to be in regular school. It would pay for itself.

In practice, it doesn't. The same number of kids go into private placement because they're all at capacity. And even with the high cost of private placement, it would take a lot of students to offset the high cost of MVA.

Private placement is astronomically more expensive than MVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we bring back the MVA but in a much smaller and more exclusive way? There were 2 students who were found to have moved out of state who were still attending. There were kids with no medical needs who just appreciated the comforts of school from their bed. For the first 2 years of existence, the MVA placed all of the IEP meetings and paperwork on the kids home school which I never understood why they couldn’t host their own meetings. Last year, I read IEPs for MVA students which were full of statements about the students which were simply not true (understandable given that the case manager never met the kid in person). If it comes back, someone needs to make a clear policy about who is it appropriate for.

No. Because the MVA some things like IEPs, services and testing were done in the home schools. Some of us refused testing that was not a graduation requirement for a variety of reasons. The MVA is appropriate for any child who wants to be in it and has parent support. Kids were in it for tons of reasons including being bullied or not feeling safe. Why didn’t you support those kids more so they would have done better in your school? People like you are one reason why some families choose the MVA.

Parents don't get to pick the school that is most convenient for them. If you want to send your kids to a special school for which there is not a compelling medical need, then you can pay for it yourself.

Actually they do. There is now a charter and for some areas there are consortium as well as speciality programs. The MVA was open to all. And, just think, if it reopens, the kids you clearly don’t want in your school can have a place to go to get a quality education with teachers and staff who care.

By your logic we should get rid of all the magnet and other special programs as well.

I very much would like to see the rest of the former MVA students return to school. Most have.

If you work for MCPS, you should be terminated as it should be what’s best for the child and family, not what you want as you clearly are part of why kids don’t return.

Do you understand about 1/3 the kids left MCPS, and when they left they took that finding. Another 1/3 or so are in other MC.p.s programs now not getting a proper education. We have people like you to thank.

If you wanted those kids to return in person you should have done a better job meeting their needs.

I don't think we have these numbers. Maybe MVA parents did an informal poll regarding *intentions* but we know intentions aren't the same as actions. I also want to respond directly to the idea that "we" should have done a better job meeting the needs of MVA kids. One of the biggest challenges is that parents of MVA kids resisted any of the testing or protocols that would have helped determine the appropriate supports. So "we" are meant to provide a tailored education in a 10:1 setting because the parents say that's how their child learns best, but without any of the normal testing that leads to that sort of ratio. Every child would learn best in a tiny classroom! That doesn't mean MCPS isn't meeting the needs of every kid, it means we don't have the resources for those sorts of ratios without a compelling need.

Of, there was testing. MCPS refused to release it. All kids did MAP at home. Some kids who could went to their home schools for other testing. Our classrooms were not small. Most had 20-40 kids in it. Average for us was in the mid to high 30s.

What’s a compelling need? A child with serious health, mental health or a physical disability? A parent who cannot get their child to school where no bus is offered? A child who was severely bullied and staff like you ignored it? Kids who learn better as it’s more structured and visual? Kids who need more support whose teachers ignore them? Teens who are parents with no child care?

If you were able to meet these kids needs, don’t you think they would have all come back?

And, as an MCPS staff member if you are spending your school day here, it speaks volumes.

Did you intentionally ignore the only demand mentioned, which was tiny class sizes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we bring back the MVA but in a much smaller and more exclusive way? There were 2 students who were found to have moved out of state who were still attending. There were kids with no medical needs who just appreciated the comforts of school from their bed. For the first 2 years of existence, the MVA placed all of the IEP meetings and paperwork on the kids home school which I never understood why they couldn’t host their own meetings. Last year, I read IEPs for MVA students which were full of statements about the students which were simply not true (understandable given that the case manager never met the kid in person). If it comes back, someone needs to make a clear policy about who is it appropriate for.

No. Because the MVA some things like IEPs, services and testing were done in the home schools. Some of us refused testing that was not a graduation requirement for a variety of reasons. The MVA is appropriate for any child who wants to be in it and has parent support. Kids were in it for tons of reasons including being bullied or not feeling safe. Why didn’t you support those kids more so they would have done better in your school? People like you are one reason why some families choose the MVA.

Parents don't get to pick the school that is most convenient for them. If you want to send your kids to a special school for which there is not a compelling medical need, then you can pay for it yourself.

Actually they do. There is now a charter and for some areas there are consortium as well as speciality programs. The MVA was open to all. And, just think, if it reopens, the kids you clearly don’t want in your school can have a place to go to get a quality education with teachers and staff who care.

By your logic we should get rid of all the magnet and other special programs as well.

I very much would like to see the rest of the former MVA students return to school. Most have.

If you work for MCPS, you should be terminated as it should be what’s best for the child and family, not what you want as you clearly are part of why kids don’t return.

Do you understand about 1/3 the kids left MCPS, and when they left they took that finding. Another 1/3 or so are in other MC.p.s programs now not getting a proper education. We have people like you to thank.

If you wanted those kids to return in person you should have done a better job meeting their needs.

I don't think we have these numbers. Maybe MVA parents did an informal poll regarding *intentions* but we know intentions aren't the same as actions. I also want to respond directly to the idea that "we" should have done a better job meeting the needs of MVA kids. One of the biggest challenges is that parents of MVA kids resisted any of the testing or protocols that would have helped determine the appropriate supports. So "we" are meant to provide a tailored education in a 10:1 setting because the parents say that's how their child learns best, but without any of the normal testing that leads to that sort of ratio. Every child would learn best in a tiny classroom! That doesn't mean MCPS isn't meeting the needs of every kid, it means we don't have the resources for those sorts of ratios without a compelling need.

Of, there was testing. MCPS refused to release it. All kids did MAP at home. Some kids who could went to their home schools for other testing. Our classrooms were not small. Most had 20-40 kids in it. Average for us was in the mid to high 30s.

What’s a compelling need? A child with serious health, mental health or a physical disability? A parent who cannot get their child to school where no bus is offered? A child who was severely bullied and staff like you ignored it? Kids who learn better as it’s more structured and visual? Kids who need more support whose teachers ignore them? Teens who are parents with no child care?

If you were able to meet these kids needs, don’t you think they would have all come back?

And, as an MCPS staff member if you are spending your school day here, it speaks volumes.

Did you intentionally ignore the only demand mentioned, which was tiny class sizes?

This poster clear has no experience with the MVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The program was a heck of a lot cheaper than sending 1-2 kids to private placement paid for by MCPS due to their not being able to be in regular school. It would pay for itself.

In practice, it doesn't. The same number of kids go into private placement because they're all at capacity. And even with the high cost of private placement, it would take a lot of students to offset the high cost of MVA.

Private placement is astronomically more expensive than MVA.

It's also a very high bar. It's not like all 800 kids in MVA were going to move to private placement. They would need to try the myriad programs that MCPS already offers for kids with a broad variety of learning and behavioral differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The program was a heck of a lot cheaper than sending 1-2 kids to private placement paid for by MCPS due to their not being able to be in regular school. It would pay for itself.

In practice, it doesn't. The same number of kids go into private placement because they're all at capacity. And even with the high cost of private placement, it would take a lot of students to offset the high cost of MVA.

Private placement is astronomically more expensive than MVA.

MCPS saved $5 million from the closure of the MVA. I'm sure there are cases for individual students where the alternative to the MVA was more expensive for MCPS than maintaining the virtual program, but at the end of the day MCPS is saving money from the closure (see: https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2025RS/fnotes/bil_0003/hb0583.pdf)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think MD should create a virtual academy for the entire state.

I agree with this. I have no issue with a virtual academy in principle. I can easily accept that different kids have different needs and excel in different environments. But it seems it would be much more cost effective and offer more educational opportunities to student if this was administered on a larger, statewide scale.

+1, should be a statewide program

Exactly. If virtual programs were properly limited to only students who legitimately could not attend school in-person, attempting to operate them at a district level would never work.

Even with MCPS's free-for-all approach we only had 10 kids in some elementary school classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think MD should create a virtual academy for the entire state.

I agree with this. I have no issue with a virtual academy in principle. I can easily accept that different kids have different needs and excel in different environments. But it seems it would be much more cost effective and offer more educational opportunities to student if this was administered on a larger, statewide scale.

+1, should be a statewide program

Whose going to pay for that and what is the cost?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think MD should create a virtual academy for the entire state.

I agree with this. I have no issue with a virtual academy in principle. I can easily accept that different kids have different needs and excel in different environments. But it seems it would be much more cost effective and offer more educational opportunities to student if this was administered on a larger, statewide scale.

+1, should be a statewide program

Whose going to pay for that and what is the cost?

And, whose going to run it as the state does not provide education services.