Principal placed AAP question

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach AAP and there are several Level 4 students I have that I question how they got in. So even at the center, there are kids who somehow got in with less than scores and struggle academically.

Curious to hear more about what you think about why/how they got in. Inflated test scores? Something else?

Honestly, no one truly knows. It truly is a gamble. But the reality is that center schools are filled with kids who struggle and randomly got in and some Level 3 kids have better scores.

+1. My kids' classes were legitimately held back by kids who were full-time AAP accepted who really, really struggled and for whatever reason didn't put in any extra work to catch up.

Because those kids are only there because their parents want them there. They don't care about excelling in school. This is the vast majority of AAP kids. They're only their because mommy and daddy made them take some practice tests and math enrichment.

The kids who take enrichment aren't the ones holding the class back in math. Trust me. The 3 or 4 kids across multiple grades of AAP my kids were in who did outside math enrichment (we're a mid-TJ mania center, so not one of the crazy ones) were stereotypically advanced kids who were well ahead of the class.

The ones who were holding the class back had checked out parents of the kind people try to get away from by forcing their kids into AAP. Or just overly permissive parents who didn't bother to make their kids do any work on, say, a group project and then enabled the kid to not get consequences for it - that was fun times in my house!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach AAP and there are several Level 4 students I have that I question how they got in. So even at the center, there are kids who somehow got in with less than scores and struggle academically.

Curious to hear more about what you think about why/how they got in. Inflated test scores? Something else?

Honestly, no one truly knows. It truly is a gamble. But the reality is that center schools are filled with kids who struggle and randomly got in and some Level 3 kids have better scores.

+1. My kids' classes were legitimately held back by kids who were full-time AAP accepted who really, really struggled and for whatever reason didn't put in any extra work to catch up.

There will ALWAYS be some child that holds back the rest of the class. If they got rid of that child, and the next, and the next, your child will eventually be that limiting factor people will complain about. It's just a matter of where you set the bar. AAP sets it (slightly?) higher than Gen ed - It's still public education though so quit complaining...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach AAP and there are several Level 4 students I have that I question how they got in. So even at the center, there are kids who somehow got in with less than scores and struggle academically.

Curious to hear more about what you think about why/how they got in. Inflated test scores? Something else?

Honestly, no one truly knows. It truly is a gamble. But the reality is that center schools are filled with kids who struggle and randomly got in and some Level 3 kids have better scores.

+1. My kids' classes were legitimately held back by kids who were full-time AAP accepted who really, really struggled and for whatever reason didn't put in any extra work to catch up.

There will ALWAYS be some child that holds back the rest of the class. If they got rid of that child, and the next, and the next, your child will eventually be that limiting factor people will complain about. It's just a matter of where you set the bar. AAP sets it (slightly?) higher than Gen ed - It's still public education though so quit complaining...

Not really. For example, advanced math has a specific pacing guide and extensions. If an AAP class falls behind the pacing guide or isn't given the extensions because some kids are struggling, then everyone else has a right to complain. They're not receiving the course that they ought to be receiving. Also, no child should hold back the rest of the class even if they're seriously struggling. If the teacher has to choose between watering down the class for the 20 kids who belong in AAP, or letting the 5 kids who don't belong wash out of the program, she should let the kids wash out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach AAP and there are several Level 4 students I have that I question how they got in. So even at the center, there are kids who somehow got in with less than scores and struggle academically.

Curious to hear more about what you think about why/how they got in. Inflated test scores? Something else?

Honestly, no one truly knows. It truly is a gamble. But the reality is that center schools are filled with kids who struggle and randomly got in and some Level 3 kids have better scores.

+1. My kids' classes were legitimately held back by kids who were full-time AAP accepted who really, really struggled and for whatever reason didn't put in any extra work to catch up.

There will ALWAYS be some child that holds back the rest of the class. If they got rid of that child, and the next, and the next, your child will eventually be that limiting factor people will complain about. It's just a matter of where you set the bar. AAP sets it (slightly?) higher than Gen ed - It's still public education though so quit complaining...

Not really. For example, advanced math has a specific pacing guide and extensions. If an AAP class falls behind the pacing guide or isn't given the extensions because some kids are struggling, then everyone else has a right to complain. They're not receiving the course that they ought to be receiving. Also, no child should hold back the rest of the class even if they're seriously struggling. If the teacher has to choose between watering down the class for the 20 kids who belong in AAP, or letting the 5 kids who don't belong wash out of the program, she should let the kids wash out.

PP who gave the +1, and the above quote is not me. I wasn't really intending to complain. My kids were each personally able to do fine despite the occasional slow down from classmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach AAP and there are several Level 4 students I have that I question how they got in. So even at the center, there are kids who somehow got in with less than scores and struggle academically.

Curious to hear more about what you think about why/how they got in. Inflated test scores? Something else?

Honestly, no one truly knows. It truly is a gamble. But the reality is that center schools are filled with kids who struggle and randomly got in and some Level 3 kids have better scores.

+1. My kids' classes were legitimately held back by kids who were full-time AAP accepted who really, really struggled and for whatever reason didn't put in any extra work to catch up.

There will ALWAYS be some child that holds back the rest of the class. If they got rid of that child, and the next, and the next, your child will eventually be that limiting factor people will complain about. It's just a matter of where you set the bar. AAP sets it (slightly?) higher than Gen ed - It's still public education though so quit complaining...

Not really. For example, advanced math has a specific pacing guide and extensions. If an AAP class falls behind the pacing guide or isn't given the extensions because some kids are struggling, then everyone else has a right to complain. They're not receiving the course that they ought to be receiving. Also, no child should hold back the rest of the class even if they're seriously struggling. If the teacher has to choose between watering down the class for the 20 kids who belong in AAP, or letting the 5 kids who don't belong wash out of the program, she should let the kids wash out.

Every class has pacing guidelines, but SOL pass rates are all that matter for teacher evaluation. If the slow kid needs more help, they will get it regardless of whether the class is AAP or gen ed

[Anonymous]

IME the kids that hold the class back are the ones whose parents forced them to AAP - e.g. the ones who test prepped, didn't get it on the first try, so appealed, didn't get in again, tried in 3rd, didn't get in, appealed again with a WISC (also prepped) and finally got in.

[Anonymous]

How do any of you know if a student is holding back the class? I have two children in AAP, and a teacher has never mentioned that another student was holding back the class. Should I be concerned?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do any of you know if a student is holding back the class? I have two children in AAP, and a teacher has never mentioned that another student was holding back the class. Should I be concerned?

It would be wildly inappropriate for a teacher to say anything of the sort - but the kids know who's behind and who isn't.

[Anonymous]

Op here. This post wasn’t about being exclusive or elitist- it was about hoping for a small cohort of kids and providing some normalcy and the same group of kids moving from grade to grade.

At our local school I find it a bit chaotic for kids coming in and out of the classroom for subject specific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do any of you know if a student is holding back the class? I have two children in AAP, and a teacher has never mentioned that another student was holding back the class. Should I be concerned?

It would be wildly inappropriate for a teacher to say anything of the sort - but the kids know who's behind and who isn't.

Okay, if it's inappropriate for a teacher to say a student is struggling, how do the students know the class is being hold back? I also have a child in an AAP class, and now I have so many thoughts running through my mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. This post wasn’t about being exclusive or elitist- it was about hoping for a small cohort of kids and providing some normalcy and the same group of kids moving from grade to grade.

At our local school I find it a bit chaotic for kids coming in and out of the classroom for subject specific.

If you wanted this, you should have put your child in private school. One of the benefits of public school is that our children get to meet new friends and try new things. One piece of feedback I've heard from middle school teachers is that AAP kids are NOT prepared for the social aspect of middle school and they are overwhelmed by having to deal with so many new kids that they've never met before because they've been placed with the same children for the past 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do any of you know if a student is holding back the class? I have two children in AAP, and a teacher has never mentioned that another student was holding back the class. Should I be concerned?

It would be wildly inappropriate for a teacher to say anything of the sort - but the kids know who's behind and who isn't.

Okay, if it's inappropriate for a teacher to say a student is struggling, how do the students know the class is being hold back? I also have a child in an AAP class, and now I have so many thoughts running through my mind.

Holding back might be a strong phrase. The kids know if there are slow kids though.

In my kid’s case it was:

3rd grade: my DC was consistently assigned to help a specific kid with work once my DC was done with theirs

4th grade: the math resource teacher had to consistently come help the same group of students keep up (it varied slightly but there was a core). My kid didn’t name names but mentioned the resource teacher coming to help. DC also knew who the math resource teacher came to give extra enrichment to that year (which didn’t seem to happen every year).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do any of you know if a student is holding back the class? I have two children in AAP, and a teacher has never mentioned that another student was holding back the class. Should I be concerned?

It would be wildly inappropriate for a teacher to say anything of the sort - but the kids know who's behind and who isn't.

Okay, if it's inappropriate for a teacher to say a student is struggling, how do the students know the class is being hold back? I also have a child in an AAP class, and now I have so many thoughts running through my mind.

Kids discuss their grades and how they see other kids doing all the time. I had told my son not to discuss grades, those are private and school is not a competition, and still heard his friends discussing who was in Advanced Math that didn’t belong there while they were over. I stepped in because the language some were using was not kind. After his friends left I reminded DS that he shouldn’t be discussing grades and he said that everyone else did. We discussed why we don’t talk about our grades but I know that it continues.

Kids know who is struggling and who is doing well. They know who is in enrichment, who is playing travel sports, who is doing dance, and all of that fun stuff. So yes, the kids know what kids are struggling in Advanced Math or in LIV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do any of you know if a student is holding back the class? I have two children in AAP, and a teacher has never mentioned that another student was holding back the class. Should I be concerned?

It would be wildly inappropriate for a teacher to say anything of the sort - but the kids know who's behind and who isn't.

Okay, if it's inappropriate for a teacher to say a student is struggling, how do the students know the class is being hold back? I also have a child in an AAP class, and now I have so many thoughts running through my mind.

Holding back might be a strong phrase. The kids know if there are slow kids though.

In my kid’s case it was:

3rd grade: my DC was consistently assigned to help a specific kid with work once my DC was done with theirs

4th grade: the math resource teacher had to consistently come help the same group of students keep up (it varied slightly but there was a core). My kid didn’t name names but mentioned the resource teacher coming to help. DC also knew who the math resource teacher came to give extra enrichment to that year (which didn’t seem to happen every year).

The Math Resource Teacher might be there because there are kids with IEPs in all classes and math was a targeted subject. It could be that those kids needed the math explained in a different way and, as long as it was, were not struggling. Or that was the easiest way to get in the service hours for kids IEPs at that school because the kids didn’t need a lot of support and the Math Resource Teacher had more availability then the Reading or SPED Teacher.

[Anonymous]

Here's mine: teacher still had kids in reading groups. My kid's group was still the one that only met with the teacher once per week, while another group met every day. At conferences, the teacher said that she was sad that she rarely was able to work with my kid's group, but had other groups with greater need.

In math class, after almost every unit test or quiz, there was a day where my kid and 2/3 of the class got a bonus recess, while the teacher did remediations with the remaining 1/3 of the class. I at the time had one kid in 5th grade gen ed advanced math at the base school and the other kid in 5th grade AAP math at the center in the same year. It was pretty obvious that the gen ed advanced math covered more material at a higher pace, had more extensions, and more projects.