Park city ski patrol on strike

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trump needs to fire these union types and bring in some immigrants to do these jobs for less.

They already do...a lot of lifties are seasonal workers from So America. It's not a new concept and it's not just Vail resorts (Ikon and Inde Resirts also hire folks from Chike and Argentina to come up for the season).

[Anonymous]

I’ve never been skiing or to a ski resort. Grew up firmly middle class and we couldn’t afford it even in the 90s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a ski resort town out West. Not PC but similar. I've never worked at a resort but many friends, neighbors, and family have.

I am firmly on the side of labor here. And I'm not always pro labor. This one is a no brainer though.

Skiing as an industry has gotten disgusting over the last 30 years. A bunch of competing factors: all the resorts being bought up first by foreign investors and now by private equity. Climate change resulting in low snow loads and leading to lots of manufactured snow and totally changing the economics of resorts. And then the huge gulf that has emerged in income inequality between the people who work at resorts and people who go to them.

Back when skiing was more accessible to middle class people, especially people who lived near ski towns, you'd have a wide range of socio-economic levels on the slopes. Especially at a place like Park City, which is large and close to a city with a big middle class population. Sure there have always been rich people flying in and doing the most expensive, VIP version of skiing. But there were also lots of people who made it work at lower price points by splitting house rentals, getting used equipment, scouting deals, etc. And it's that group that the people who work at resorts come from -- middle and working class families who found a way to afford skiing when they were young, fell in love with it, and then get jobs at resorts because it's their passion.

When skiing becomes so expensive that middle class people simply cannot do it, and when everything about these resorts is tailored to cater to the wealthiest patrons -- not just the cost of a lift ticket but food and parking and lodging, even access to certain parts of the ski lodge -- resentment is going to build.

Plus cost of living in these towns has become literally impossible. There was a time when someone working ski patrol could fairly easily afford an apartment or to share an apartment in Park City or Aspen or Tahoe or whatever and still have money leftover. It's almost impossible now. The idea that you can afford to live in Park City during ski season on $21 an hour is absurd.

Meanwhile the people who own these resorts are literal billionaires. These places mint money.

If your vacation was ruined by this strike, I am sorry. But perhaps ruining your vacation is the only way for people working at these places to flex what little power they have left. The people who own these results believe that in a few years they'll be able to automate 90% of operations and not have to deal with labor at all. We'll see. In the meantime, this is what it's going to be like. Plan accordingly. These people are fighting for their livelihood. They don't actually owe you anything.

I am 100% on the side of labor here, but I also think skiing is still accessible to middle-class people in the SLC area. The cost of an epic pass, especially for local families who buy their season pass in the spring, is still accessible. The epic pass has not inflated at the pace of day passes; hence, 1+ hour-long lift lines. You see a lot of local Utah families skiing at Brighton as their season passes, and even food costs are still accessible.

NP. I agree and I’ve posted this on DCUM before. If you live in the DMV, skiing is for the rich.

If you live in northern New England or upstate NY or several places out west, it’s not only for the rich. Many places have charitable programs that put kids on mountains. It is easy to find second hand gear. There is a small ski hill near Burlington VT that is literally “pay what you can”.

[Anonymous]

I grew up working class in Europe, not a ski area, and we’d drive to Austria and Italy for yearly ski vacations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up working class in Europe, not a ski area, and we’d drive to Austria and Italy for yearly ski vacations.

Totally relevant to this thread about the economics of skiing in the US.

/s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a ski resort town out West. Not PC but similar. I've never worked at a resort but many friends, neighbors, and family have.

I am firmly on the side of labor here. And I'm not always pro labor. This one is a no brainer though.

Skiing as an industry has gotten disgusting over the last 30 years. A bunch of competing factors: all the resorts being bought up first by foreign investors and now by private equity. Climate change resulting in low snow loads and leading to lots of manufactured snow and totally changing the economics of resorts. And then the huge gulf that has emerged in income inequality between the people who work at resorts and people who go to them.

Back when skiing was more accessible to middle class people, especially people who lived near ski towns, you'd have a wide range of socio-economic levels on the slopes. Especially at a place like Park City, which is large and close to a city with a big middle class population. Sure there have always been rich people flying in and doing the most expensive, VIP version of skiing. But there were also lots of people who made it work at lower price points by splitting house rentals, getting used equipment, scouting deals, etc. And it's that group that the people who work at resorts come from -- middle and working class families who found a way to afford skiing when they were young, fell in love with it, and then get jobs at resorts because it's their passion.

When skiing becomes so expensive that middle class people simply cannot do it, and when everything about these resorts is tailored to cater to the wealthiest patrons -- not just the cost of a lift ticket but food and parking and lodging, even access to certain parts of the ski lodge -- resentment is going to build.

Plus cost of living in these towns has become literally impossible. There was a time when someone working ski patrol could fairly easily afford an apartment or to share an apartment in Park City or Aspen or Tahoe or whatever and still have money leftover. It's almost impossible now. The idea that you can afford to live in Park City during ski season on $21 an hour is absurd.

Meanwhile the people who own these resorts are literal billionaires. These places mint money.

If your vacation was ruined by this strike, I am sorry. But perhaps ruining your vacation is the only way for people working at these places to flex what little power they have left. The people who own these results believe that in a few years they'll be able to automate 90% of operations and not have to deal with labor at all. We'll see. In the meantime, this is what it's going to be like. Plan accordingly. These people are fighting for their livelihood. They don't actually owe you anything.

I am 100% on the side of labor here, but I also think skiing is still accessible to middle-class people in the SLC area. The cost of an epic pass, especially for local families who buy their season pass in the spring, is still accessible. The epic pass has not inflated at the pace of day passes; hence, 1+ hour-long lift lines. You see a lot of local Utah families skiing at Brighton as their season passes, and even food costs are still accessible.

NP. I agree and I’ve posted this on DCUM before. If you live in the DMV, skiing is for the rich.

If you live in northern New England or upstate NY or several places out west, it’s not only for the rich. Many places have charitable programs that put kids on mountains. It is easy to find second hand gear. There is a small ski hill near Burlington VT that is literally “pay what you can”.

In the 90s we all drove to Wisp for the day and back; and got our equipment from play it again sports. We were not rich by any means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully the union starts attacking the people crossing the lines

I know you think you’re so clever but think of all the families who saved all year to be able to take their family on a ski trip. It’s not only the rich that go to Park city. This is not impacting vail management that much because people have already paid for their lift tickets, it’s impacting the guests. Why didn’t they do this in opening week so they weren’t able to open and plan ahead to get more staff there? That would’ve been a bigger impact to the old management than doing it during the holiday week.

Yes, why won't someone think of the poor rich families vacationing in Park City over Christmas!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up working class in Europe, not a ski area, and we’d drive to Austria and Italy for yearly ski vacations.

Totally relevant to this thread about the economics of skiing in the US.

/s

Especially since Europeans also get way more vacation than Americans do, so it's more feasible to take a longer ski vacation during one of the long school holidays there, and everything is closer together so it's possible to drive to a ski resort from pretty much anywhere in Europe, or to find reasonably low priced train or plane tickets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a ski resort town out West. Not PC but similar. I've never worked at a resort but many friends, neighbors, and family have.

I am firmly on the side of labor here. And I'm not always pro labor. This one is a no brainer though.

Skiing as an industry has gotten disgusting over the last 30 years. A bunch of competing factors: all the resorts being bought up first by foreign investors and now by private equity. Climate change resulting in low snow loads and leading to lots of manufactured snow and totally changing the economics of resorts. And then the huge gulf that has emerged in income inequality between the people who work at resorts and people who go to them.

Back when skiing was more accessible to middle class people, especially people who lived near ski towns, you'd have a wide range of socio-economic levels on the slopes. Especially at a place like Park City, which is large and close to a city with a big middle class population. Sure there have always been rich people flying in and doing the most expensive, VIP version of skiing. But there were also lots of people who made it work at lower price points by splitting house rentals, getting used equipment, scouting deals, etc. And it's that group that the people who work at resorts come from -- middle and working class families who found a way to afford skiing when they were young, fell in love with it, and then get jobs at resorts because it's their passion.

When skiing becomes so expensive that middle class people simply cannot do it, and when everything about these resorts is tailored to cater to the wealthiest patrons -- not just the cost of a lift ticket but food and parking and lodging, even access to certain parts of the ski lodge -- resentment is going to build.

Plus cost of living in these towns has become literally impossible. There was a time when someone working ski patrol could fairly easily afford an apartment or to share an apartment in Park City or Aspen or Tahoe or whatever and still have money leftover. It's almost impossible now. The idea that you can afford to live in Park City during ski season on $21 an hour is absurd.

Meanwhile the people who own these resorts are literal billionaires. These places mint money.

If your vacation was ruined by this strike, I am sorry. But perhaps ruining your vacation is the only way for people working at these places to flex what little power they have left. The people who own these results believe that in a few years they'll be able to automate 90% of operations and not have to deal with labor at all. We'll see. In the meantime, this is what it's going to be like. Plan accordingly. These people are fighting for their livelihood. They don't actually owe you anything.

I am 100% on the side of labor here, but I also think skiing is still accessible to middle-class people in the SLC area. The cost of an epic pass, especially for local families who buy their season pass in the spring, is still accessible. The epic pass has not inflated at the pace of day passes; hence, 1+ hour-long lift lines. You see a lot of local Utah families skiing at Brighton as their season passes, and even food costs are still accessible.

Brighton is on the Ikon pass, as are many of the Utah areas. The only Epic resort is Park City. Not trying to nitpick, but the Ikon pass is more expensive and has more limitations than Epic. My full Ikon was something like $1200 and I bought it early. Full Ikon is needed for Alta and I believe Deer Valley. Brighton is unlimited days while most of the other areas are 5 or 7 days depending on which pass you have. If you live in SLC and ski Brighton regularly the Ikon pass is a good deal. If you live in CO the Epic pass is a great deal.

[Anonymous]

Today by far is the worst at Park city. Canyons was initially closed this morning and they told everyone to take the bus over to Mountain Village. They claimed power outage and the lodge was also closed. Less than 18% of trails are open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Today by far is the worst at Park city. Canyons was initially closed this morning and they told everyone to take the bus over to Mountain Village. They claimed power outage and the lodge was also closed. Less than 18% of trails are open.

Team Strike.

[Anonymous]

The union and management weren’t supposed to meet till the second but had a meeting today so things are looking on the upside…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Today by far is the worst at Park city. Canyons was initially closed this morning and they told everyone to take the bus over to Mountain Village. They claimed power outage and the lodge was also closed. Less than 18% of trails are open.

Amazing

[Anonymous]

I live in park city, but I’ve been out of town for the past couple of weeks. It’s not ideal. They have brought in replacement ski patrol, but as you would imagine, they don’t know the terrain as well. There was a decent snowfall recently and more snow in the near future, but not as much is open because of the strike.

There’s still enough open for most people, but if you have skiers who want to hike to terrain and want to ski bowls and chutes, coming in December was a gamble anyway. Many locals don’t ski much in pc until January. DV is better due to more snowmaking, but it will be mostly groomed until there’s more snow. Pc is not too far from other ski areas- many families do a day trip to snowbird/alta or solitude/brighton. Snowbasin is not too far either. The first 4 resorts have lodging but it’s dull for non skiers, whereas park city has much more to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Today by far is the worst at Park city. Canyons was initially closed this morning and they told everyone to take the bus over to Mountain Village. They claimed power outage and the lodge was also closed. Less than 18% of trails are open.

Oh man, I am so sorry. I’m pp who lives in pc. What a disaster. Canyons is always less likely to run their lifts due to wind, but this was a different issue. The COO of pcmr is getting roasted on local social media and people are forwarding me email exchanges with her. The only thing that is not in their control is the fact that the snowpack is below average this year. But there have been worse years before without so many unhappy guests.