For top 20 college, what did your AP/rigor look like from typical suburban high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, there is a big difference between t20 and t10. Second, the issue is not how many APs, it's taking the maximum number of highest level courses available at a given school, including foreign language. From there you need to have at least one standout EC and some good recs and essays, to differentiate yourself from peers you are competing with from your school.
Top 5 percent of class whatever that is stats-wise, 1550, and then something that makes you different than stem code who codes and has a fake nonprofit.

This is the way to do it. As a parent with both at T10s they need the max number of the most difficult courses then they need all As. For schools that have rare 4.0uw and lots of Bs among the top group, a top student can get in T10 and have a B or two IF that still puts them near the top of the class.
The high school track record for t10/ivy matters: if a dozen kids total get in without hooks to these schools then you need to be in the group of kids with topmost rigor and need to be in the group of kids with top GPA. An occasional B but still in the top 15 students for GPA yet has the third hardest schedule at the school does better than the val with rigor not in the top 20-25 kids. A0’s count and compare rigor. Jeff selingo outlines details in one of his inside admissions books and these are not t10 schools who care even more about challenging oneself in all areas.
In a high school that only has 2-3 unhooked students per year get into any T10 then to have a shot they need to be in the top 2-3 in every way: rigor, grades, teacher evals, 1550+, all 5s, and something to set them apart EC wise from the other 5-6 who on paper look like they are similar.

The game is relative to the high school and much harder at a high school that only gets a few unhooked in per year

[Anonymous]

^adding: we have a third , aiming for a top-5 LAC: they know t10 is not a fit for them sd though they have top rigor the grades are borderline for t15. Private school counselor notes LACs do not get as many apps and take a slightly broader range. They will likely get in ED . The high school has former AO’s and gives detailed counseling on chances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, there is a big difference between t20 and t10. Second, the issue is not how many APs, it's taking the maximum number of highest level courses available at a given school, including foreign language. From there you need to have at least one standout EC and some good recs and essays, to differentiate yourself from peers you are competing with from your school.
Top 5 percent of class whatever that is stats-wise, 1550, and then something that makes you different than stem code who codes and has a fake nonprofit.

It's true that some t20s are much easier than others. But US News ranking does not correlate that well with difficulty of admission. So I wouldn't say "big difference between t20 and t10". Look at the US News #6 tie of Caltech/Duke/Hopkins/Northwestern. Caltech is MUCH harder to get into compared to the others.

The rest of the advice about ECs, etc. is solid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that it is based on high school, but assuming middle to upper middle class large public, what did your rigor look like?

Currently on track to complete:

AP World History (modern), AP Euro History, AP US History, AP Government

AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Physics C (Mechanics), AP Comp Sci Principles

AP Calc AB, AP Calc BC, AP Stats

AP Language and Composition, AP Literature

AP Pyschology, AP Macroeconomics


We are approaching it that this is the floor to be competitive, and even if get all A's in the class, and 5's on the AP exams, that it just gets your application looked at.

We are worried that because our high school offers more AP's, including AP Computer Science A, AP Physics C-Electromagnetism, and AP's in 3 languages but because of circumstances like interest and class schedule, child won't be taking an AP language, all the hard physics classes or computer science ones, for major of something pre-med, maybe Chemicstry or Biochemistry that they will be at disadvantage.

OMG this is too many. My older kid is at Cornell and only had 8 APs. They should follow their actual interest, not just check boxes to impress college AOs.

What type of school? Large suburban public? Does it historically send man students to Ivies, etc.?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that it is based on high school, but assuming middle to upper middle class large public, what did your rigor look like?

Currently on track to complete:

AP World History (modern), AP Euro History, AP US History, AP Government

AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Physics C (Mechanics), AP Comp Sci Principles

AP Calc AB, AP Calc BC, AP Stats

AP Language and Composition, AP Literature

AP Pyschology, AP Macroeconomics


We are approaching it that this is the floor to be competitive, and even if get all A's in the class, and 5's on the AP exams, that it just gets your application looked at.

We are worried that because our high school offers more AP's, including AP Computer Science A, AP Physics C-Electromagnetism, and AP's in 3 languages but because of circumstances like interest and class schedule, child won't be taking an AP language, all the hard physics classes or computer science ones, for major of something pre-med, maybe Chemicstry or Biochemistry that they will be at disadvantage.

OMG this is too many. My older kid is at Cornell and only had 8 APs. They should follow their actual interest, not just check boxes to impress college AOs.

What type of school? Large suburban public? Does it historically send man students to Ivies, etc.?

**should be "many students", not "man students"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can your kid take just BC? Most kids don’t do AB then BC.

DP.
Every school , public and private, in our area mandates AB then BC and has for over 20 years. The top dozen or so students at a subset of these schools takes multivariable in the high school taught by phD: stem public, 2 of 4 privates, and the engineering magnet.
Math course tracking is evaluated in the context of the high school. AB then BC is not a negative because the curriculum is separate, not repeating.

That is very strange to us here in Fairfax County. It is definitely viewed as repetitive and "less than" for a student to take both Calc AB and BC. (Yes, yes, I know that someone out there has a kid in FCPS that took AB and BC and then got into MIT, but it is definitely not the norm.)

[Anonymous]

This is extremely rigorous. They must be able to get As in these classes, plus 4 or 5 on AP exam. Don’t overdo it. I can’t stress that enough.

DS did 11 APs with all As and one B in AP Bio. Wouldn’t let him take Calc BC (save some calc for college). Took AP Span. The B hurt his gpa a lot (relative to the top 10% of class - still an amazing gpa).

You need time for extracurricular, friends and family time too and test prep for SAT.

YOU NEED TO BE AWARE THAT YOUR DC STILL MAY NOT GET INTO TOP 20. Lots of kids just like this at UMD and other flagships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First, there is a big difference between t20 and t10. Second, the issue is not how many APs, it's taking the maximum number of highest level courses available at a given school, including foreign language. From there you need to have at least one standout EC and some good recs and essays, to differentiate yourself from peers you are competing with from your school.
Top 5 percent of class whatever that is stats-wise, 1550, and then something that makes you different than stem code who codes and has a fake nonprofit.

It's true that some t20s are much easier than others. But US News ranking does not correlate that well with difficulty of admission. So I wouldn't say "big difference between t20 and t10". Look at the US News #6 tie of Caltech/Duke/Hopkins/Northwestern. Caltech is MUCH harder to get into compared to the others.

The rest of the advice about ECs, etc. is solid.

There's this year's dice roll of what USNews T10/T20 is, and then there's what people who matter in your life (employer, investor, personal network, girlfriend's father) value, with respect to your major, career goals, and social goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can your kid take just BC? Most kids don’t do AB then BC.

DP.
Every school , public and private, in our area mandates AB then BC and has for over 20 years. The top dozen or so students at a subset of these schools takes multivariable in the high school taught by phD: stem public, 2 of 4 privates, and the engineering magnet.
Math course tracking is evaluated in the context of the high school. AB then BC is not a negative because the curriculum is separate, not repeating.

That is very strange to us here in Fairfax County. It is definitely viewed as repetitive and "less than" for a student to take both Calc AB and BC. (Yes, yes, I know that someone out there has a kid in FCPS that took AB and BC and then got into MIT, but it is definitely not the norm.)

What about for an English major or PoliSci kid? I imagine they’re given more latitude. Most students who go into humanities don’t even go as far as BC. So the idea of them taking both AB and BC is above and beyond what their peers are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can your kid take just BC? Most kids don’t do AB then BC.

DP.
Every school , public and private, in our area mandates AB then BC and has for over 20 years. The top dozen or so students at a subset of these schools takes multivariable in the high school taught by phD: stem public, 2 of 4 privates, and the engineering magnet.
Math course tracking is evaluated in the context of the high school. AB then BC is not a negative because the curriculum is separate, not repeating.

That is very strange to us here in Fairfax County. It is definitely viewed as repetitive and "less than" for a student to take both Calc AB and BC. (Yes, yes, I know that someone out there has a kid in FCPS that took AB and BC and then got into MIT, but it is definitely not the norm.)

What about for an English major or PoliSci kid? I imagine they’re given more latitude. Most students who go into humanities don’t even go as far as BC. So the idea of them taking both AB and BC is above and beyond what their peers are doing.

What about the student who takes Calc AB or BC as a freshman, that doesn't leave for many high schools any higher level math opportunities left (i.e., has to go outside the school at the local college, etc.)

I would think in that case taking Calc AB as a freshman, then Calc BC as a sophomore makes sense. Then as a junior when you can drive, take higher level maths at the local college, like multivariable/linear equations/diff equations.

Many, many (if not the vast majority) of high schools don't offer math higher than Calc BC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is extremely rigorous. They must be able to get As in these classes, plus 4 or 5 on AP exam. Don’t overdo it. I can’t stress that enough.

DS did 11 APs with all As and one B in AP Bio. Wouldn’t let him take Calc BC (save some calc for college). Took AP Span. The B hurt his gpa a lot (relative to the top 10% of class - still an amazing gpa).

You need time for extracurricular, friends and family time too and test prep for SAT.

YOU NEED TO BE AWARE THAT YOUR DC STILL MAY NOT GET INTO TOP 20. Lots of kids just like this at UMD and other flagships.

+1

[Anonymous]

Not many answers from parents whose kid attends a top 20 school who came from a middle class/upper middle class suburban high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do the kids who take all these APs end up graduating college in 3 years? Seems like a smart school would not want kids to have enough credits to do that, they lose out on $80,000 of tuition.

You can do that (graduate in 3 years) from some publics. I know a gifted young man who entered UVA as a sophomore but he also had actual college credits (through Governer's program and schools) plus superlative APs, grades, volunteerism record. He was done in three years, did an MPP at UVA, and is now in law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is extremely rigorous. They must be able to get As in these classes, plus 4 or 5 on AP exam. Don’t overdo it. I can’t stress that enough.

DS did 11 APs with all As and one B in AP Bio. Wouldn’t let him take Calc BC (save some calc for college). Took AP Span. The B hurt his gpa a lot (relative to the top 10% of class - still an amazing gpa).

You need time for extracurricular, friends and family time too and test prep for SAT.

[b]YOU NEED TO BE AWARE THAT YOUR DC STILL MAY NOT GET INTO TOP 20. Lots of kids just like this at UMD and other flagships.

True. OP has said nothing about ECs, volunteerism, anything to make her child appear well-rounded and as having leadership qualities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can your kid take just BC? Most kids don’t do AB then BC.

DP.
Every school , public and private, in our area mandates AB then BC and has for over 20 years. The top dozen or so students at a subset of these schools takes multivariable in the high school taught by phD: stem public, 2 of 4 privates, and the engineering magnet.
Math course tracking is evaluated in the context of the high school. AB then BC is not a negative because the curriculum is separate, not repeating.

That is very strange to us here in Fairfax County. It is definitely viewed as repetitive and "less than" for a student to take both Calc AB and BC. (Yes, yes, I know that someone out there has a kid in FCPS that took AB and BC and then got into MIT, but it is definitely not the norm.)

We live in Fairfax County but kids attend private school rather than FCPS. You are required to take AB before you take BC. Completely the norm at many private schools.