For top 20 college, what did your AP/rigor look like from typical suburban high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the College Board data, at least from 2018, about 125,000 students took 10 AP's or more.

This lends credence to the thesis that you need that many to be "in the door" to Top 20's.

Check the 2018 data again …

1. Barely 90,000 with 10 or more.

2. Posters in this thread have consistently referenced “15 or more” AP tests anyway, which brings the 2018 number below 3,000.

3. Posters have also indicated other conditions like (A) a wall of 5s only on 15 or more AP tests, with no scores below 5, (B) a 4.0 unweighted GPA, and (C) a perfect, one-and-done standardized test score …

Of the 3,000 or fewer who met the “15 or more” APs in 2018, fewer than 300 per year met all three add’l conditions.

Adjusting for 2024 data, that number is 500 or fewer per year.

For the last time:

1550 IS NOT the same as a 1600.

A superscored or multi-attempt 1600 IS NOT the same as a one-and-done 1600.

When taking 15 AP tests, 12x 5, 2x 4, and 1x 3 IS NOT the same as 15x 5.

And a 3.96 IS NOT the same as a 4.0.

DP. You may think these differences aren't the same, but they are the same tier for AOs. People who double down on this often end up buyer, misled and spouting nonsense.

+1. Admissions is not a race to the most APs/highest GPA/highest score. These academic stats all matter, certainly, but once above some general threshold area, other things matter more, particularly essays and recommendations.

(Oh my goodness, there is a PP who thinks 1600 one-and-done matters more than 1600 superscore? Sorry if that's your kid, but nope, it doesn't matter for most top colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1600 stands alone …

1590 and below, the test identified your limit. A perfect 1600 in a one-and-done scenario? There’s no effective way to nail down that individual’s capacity or limit. The test doesn’t allow for a complete measurement of their actual potential.

Also an institution is going to take the 1600 because the GPAs, ACT and and SAT scores are all reported to the ranking services and then ultimately to the alumni. So the poster saying there is no difference is just wrong. Every college wants to move up the USNWR rankings. The way to do that is to accept kids with the highest GPA, SAT and AcT scores possible

This is not some foreign country. US admissions is holistic, not stat-based. Stats are part of the review, and are important, but they are far from the determining factor. Highest stats possible? That is so inaccurate as to be laughable. Really good stats, perhaps, but not highest possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1600 stands alone …

1590 and below, the test identified your limit. A perfect 1600 in a one-and-done scenario? There’s no effective way to nail down that individual’s capacity or limit. The test doesn’t allow for a complete measurement of their actual potential.

Also an institution is going to take the 1600 because the GPAs, ACT and and SAT scores are all reported to the ranking services and then ultimately to the alumni. So the poster saying there is no difference is just wrong. Every college wants to move up the USNWR rankings. The way to do that is to accept kids with the highest GPA, SAT and AcT scores possible

This is not some foreign country. US admissions is holistic, not stat-based. Stats are part of the review, and are important, but they are far from the determining factor. Highest stats possible? That is so inaccurate as to be laughable. Really good stats, perhaps, but not highest possible.

To add, I understand that this makes the admissions process frustrating and unpredictable, but that is how it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the College Board data, at least from 2018, about 125,000 students took 10 AP's or more.

This lends credence to the thesis that you need that many to be "in the door" to Top 20's.

Check the 2018 data again …

1. Barely 90,000 with 10 or more.

2. Posters in this thread have consistently referenced “15 or more” AP tests anyway, which brings the 2018 number below 3,000.

3. Posters have also indicated other conditions like (A) a wall of 5s only on 15 or more AP tests, with no scores below 5, (B) a 4.0 unweighted GPA, and (C) a perfect, one-and-done standardized test score …

Of the 3,000 or fewer who met the “15 or more” APs in 2018, fewer than 300 per year met all three add’l conditions.

Adjusting for 2024 data, that number is 500 or fewer per year.

For the last time:

1550 IS NOT the same as a 1600.

A superscored or multi-attempt 1600 IS NOT the same as a one-and-done 1600.

When taking 15 AP tests, 12x 5, 2x 4, and 1x 3 IS NOT the same as 15x 5.

And a 3.96 IS NOT the same as a 4.0.

DP. You may think these differences aren't the same, but they are the same tier for AOs. People who double down on this often end up buyer, misled and spouting nonsense.

+1. Admissions is not a race to the most APs/highest GPA/highest score. These academic stats all matter, certainly, but once above some general threshold area, other things matter more, particularly essays and recommendations.

(Oh my goodness, there is a PP who thinks 1600 one-and-done matters more than 1600 superscore? Sorry if that's your kid, but nope, it doesn't matter for most top colleges.

Admissions may not be a race to the most AP's, highest GPA, highest SAT score, but the unfortunate reality is that if you come from a high school that offers AP's in history, english, math, science, and you aspire to go to a top 20 college, each and every one of those colleges will assess your academic record in the context of your high school.

I have never heard an admission's officer state that they don't expect their applicant to have NOT taken advantage of the high school's academic offerings. There definitely is leeway in not taking all AP World, AP Euro, APUSH and AP Gov for a stem candidate. But at the same token, that STEM candidate better have taken AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Calc, AP Physics if offered. And all AO's expect at least one of the English AP's.

So when you are said and done,no matter a humanities major or a STEM major, you will be at 10 AP's for most high schools JUST TO BE COMPETITIVE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1600 stands alone …

1590 and below, the test identified your limit. A perfect 1600 in a one-and-done scenario? There’s no effective way to nail down that individual’s capacity or limit. The test doesn’t allow for a complete measurement of their actual potential.

This is just not true. Very little difference between a 1590 and 1600. 1 careless mistake. 1600 does not "stand alone."

Please stop doubling down on this nonsense. Scores are only 1 component of an app, and once a student proves they can earn a high score, other things matter more.

A PP mentioned a perfect score may have made a difference in the past. This makes sense because, in the past, the scoring skewed lower overall, so that score would be rare and stand out (as would a 1590, frankly).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the College Board data, at least from 2018, about 125,000 students took 10 AP's or more.

This lends credence to the thesis that you need that many to be "in the door" to Top 20's.

Check the 2018 data again …

1. Barely 90,000 with 10 or more.

2. Posters in this thread have consistently referenced “15 or more” AP tests anyway, which brings the 2018 number below 3,000.

3. Posters have also indicated other conditions like (A) a wall of 5s only on 15 or more AP tests, with no scores below 5, (B) a 4.0 unweighted GPA, and (C) a perfect, one-and-done standardized test score …

Of the 3,000 or fewer who met the “15 or more” APs in 2018, fewer than 300 per year met all three add’l conditions.

Adjusting for 2024 data, that number is 500 or fewer per year.

For the last time:

1550 IS NOT the same as a 1600.

A superscored or multi-attempt 1600 IS NOT the same as a one-and-done 1600.

When taking 15 AP tests, 12x 5, 2x 4, and 1x 3 IS NOT the same as 15x 5.

And a 3.96 IS NOT the same as a 4.0.

DP. You may think these differences aren't the same, but they are the same tier for AOs. People who double down on this often end up buyer, misled and spouting nonsense.

+1. Admissions is not a race to the most APs/highest GPA/highest score. These academic stats all matter, certainly, but once above some general threshold area, other things matter more, particularly essays and recommendations.

(Oh my goodness, there is a PP who thinks 1600 one-and-done matters more than 1600 superscore? Sorry if that's your kid, but nope, it doesn't matter for most top colleges.

Admissions may not be a race to the most AP's, highest GPA, highest SAT score, but the unfortunate reality is that if you come from a high school that offers AP's in history, english, math, science, and you aspire to go to a top 20 college, each and every one of those colleges will assess your academic record in the context of your high school.

I have never heard an admission's officer state that they don't expect their applicant to have NOT taken advantage of the high school's academic offerings. There definitely is leeway in not taking all AP World, AP Euro, APUSH and AP Gov for a stem candidate. But at the same token, that STEM candidate better have taken AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Calc, AP Physics if offered. And all AO's expect at least one of the English AP's.

So when you are said and done,no matter a humanities major or a STEM major, you will be at 10 AP's for most high schools JUST TO BE COMPETITIVE.

PP. My kid is a freshman at a T10 with 7 APs plus DE multivariable calc (so, 8 weighted courses total), 4.0 uw/1550. No AP English, no fourth year of foreign language. Suburban high school offering >20 APs. Did not have a high rank for weighted GPA. Yes, he had high stats in general, but no, he absolutely did not maximize his stats (don't get me started, he objected, and basically refused, to game the GPA).

My opinion: maximum possible APs is not the answer. The student should take what makes sense for them. Sure, one can have a goal of a rigorous AP in each core subject area as a rule of thumb, as colleges often recommend, but in the admissions review, 8 vs 10 doesn't make a difference. There isn't a bright line rule. 6 or 7, vs 10? Depends on the rest of the app - like everything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the College Board data, at least from 2018, about 125,000 students took 10 AP's or more.

This lends credence to the thesis that you need that many to be "in the door" to Top 20's.

Check the 2018 data again …

1. Barely 90,000 with 10 or more.

2. Posters in this thread have consistently referenced “15 or more” AP tests anyway, which brings the 2018 number below 3,000.

3. Posters have also indicated other conditions like (A) a wall of 5s only on 15 or more AP tests, with no scores below 5, (B) a 4.0 unweighted GPA, and (C) a perfect, one-and-done standardized test score …

Of the 3,000 or fewer who met the “15 or more” APs in 2018, fewer than 300 per year met all three add’l conditions.

Adjusting for 2024 data, that number is 500 or fewer per year.

For the last time:

1550 IS NOT the same as a 1600.

A superscored or multi-attempt 1600 IS NOT the same as a one-and-done 1600.

When taking 15 AP tests, 12x 5, 2x 4, and 1x 3 IS NOT the same as 15x 5.

And a 3.96 IS NOT the same as a 4.0.

DP. You may think these differences aren't the same, but they are the same tier for AOs. People who double down on this often end up buyer, misled and spouting nonsense.

+1. Admissions is not a race to the most APs/highest GPA/highest score. These academic stats all matter, certainly, but once above some general threshold area, other things matter more, particularly essays and recommendations.

(Oh my goodness, there is a PP who thinks 1600 one-and-done matters more than 1600 superscore? Sorry if that's your kid, but nope, it doesn't matter for most top colleges.

Admissions may not be a race to the most AP's, highest GPA, highest SAT score, but the unfortunate reality is that if you come from a high school that offers AP's in history, english, math, science, and you aspire to go to a top 20 college, each and every one of those colleges will assess your academic record in the context of your high school.

I have never heard an admission's officer state that they don't expect their applicant to have NOT taken advantage of the high school's academic offerings. There definitely is leeway in not taking all AP World, AP Euro, APUSH and AP Gov for a stem candidate. But at the same token, that STEM candidate better have taken AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Calc, AP Physics if offered. And all AO's expect at least one of the English AP's.

So when you are said and done,no matter a humanities major or a STEM major, you will be at 10 AP's for most high schools JUST TO BE COMPETITIVE.

PP. My kid is a freshman at a T10 with 7 APs plus DE multivariable calc (so, 8 weighted courses total), 4.0 uw/1550. No AP English, no fourth year of foreign language. Suburban high school offering >20 APs. Did not have a high rank for weighted GPA. Yes, he had high stats in general, but no, he absolutely did not maximize his stats (don't get me started, he objected, and basically refused, to game the GPA).

My opinion: maximum possible APs is not the answer. The student should take what makes sense for them. Sure, one can have a goal of a rigorous AP in each core subject area as a rule of thumb, as colleges often recommend, but in the admissions review, 8 vs 10 doesn't make a difference. There isn't a bright line rule. 6 or 7, vs 10? Depends on the rest of the app - like everything else.

What were the AP's? How large a high school? What were the outcomes of his classmates? Were AP's offered freshman year? What did the average top 5-10% student profile from that high school look like?